Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Germany: All EU Members Must Take In Migrants

  1. #1

    Germany: All EU Members Must Take In Migrants

    German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer has unveiled a new plan to reform the European asylum system. A draft of the proposal leaked to the media shows that all member states of the European Union would be required to take in illegal migrants.

    Countries in Central and Eastern Europe are opposed to mandatory relocations on the basis that decisions about the granting of residence permits should be kept at the national level. They have noted that by unilaterally imposing migrant quotas on EU member states, unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are seeking to force the democratically elected leaders of Europe to submit to their diktat.

    Indeed, the continuing debate over migration is, at its core, about European federalism and the degree to which the European Union will be allowed to usurp decision-making powers from its 28 member states.
    Seehofer presented his four-page plan to reform the Common European Asylum System (CEAS) to the new president of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, in Brussels on December 2. She is expected to unveil her migration proposals in February 2020, ahead of Germany's six-month presidency of the European Council which begins in July 2020.
    The new plan is aimed at replacing the European Union's Dublin Regulation, a law that requires people seeking asylum in the EU to do so in the first European country they reach.
    Southern European countries — especially Greece and Italy — have complained that, in the context of mass migration from Africa, Asia and the Middle East, the current system places an unfair and disproportionate burden on them. They say that all EU member states should take equal responsibility for migrants reaching European shores.
    At the height of Europe's migration crisis in September 2015, some EU member states voted to relocate 120,000 migrants from Italy and Greece to other parts of the bloc. This number was in addition to a July 2015 plan to redistribute 40,000 migrants from Italy and Greece.
    Of the 160,000 migrants to be "shared," nine countries in Central and Eastern Europe were ordered to take in around 15,000 migrants. Although the Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia voted against the agreement, they were still required to comply.
    In September 2017, the European Union's highest court, the European Court of Justice (ECJ), ruled that the European Commission, the powerful executive arm of the European Union, has the legal right to order EU member states to take in so-called asylum seekers. It also ruled that EU member states have no legal right to resist those orders.
    Hungary and Slovakia, backed by Poland, argued that the European Union broke its own rules and exceeded its powers when it approved the quota system with a "qualified majority" — around two thirds of the bloc's members. They also argued that the relocation scheme is a direct violation of the Dublin Regulation.
    The European Court of Justice ruled that a qualified majority vote was sufficient because the EU "was not required to act unanimously when it adopted the contested decision." The ruling, which did not mention the Dublin Regulation, concluded: "The mechanism actually contributes to enabling Greece and Italy to deal with the impact of the 2015 migration crisis and is proportionate."

    Hungarian Foreign Minister Péter Szijjártó called the court ruling "outrageous and irresponsible" and "contrary to the interests of the European nations, including Hungary." He added: "The decision puts at risk the security of all of Europe and the future of all of Europe as well."
    In November 2019, the European Court of Auditors reported that of the 160,000 migrants intended to be shared by EU member states, ultimately only 34,705 people (21,999 from Greece and 12,706 from Italy) were relocated.
    The leaders of France and Italy, during a recent bilateral meeting in Rome, called on the European Union to introduce a new, automatic system of taking in migrants. French President Emmanuel Macron said that he was "convinced that an automatic European mechanism is needed for the reception of immigrants," and that EU countries that refused to take part in the scheme should be "seriously penalized."
    The leaked draft of Seehofer's proposal states that the Dublin Regulation creates "clear imbalances" as "in 2018, 75 percent of all applications for international protection were lodged in only five member states."
    The document argues that the Dublin Regulation is "inefficient" because "in the entire EU, applicants are transferred to the member state (originally) responsible in only 3 percent of cases," which means that in practice asylum seekers are not sent back to the country of first arrival.
    The key part of the document calls for asylum applications to be assessed immediately upon arrival at the EU's external border. From there, a newly created European Union Agency for Asylum (EUAA) would "determine" which member state is responsible for taking in the applicant and processing his or her application.
    Seehofer's plan is intended to be permanent and not limited to crisis situations. Notably, the plan does not address the issue of returning illegal migrants back to their countries of origin.


    If everything goes according to plan, the draft legislation would be adopted by the European Parliament in the second half of 2020 when Germany holds the presidency of the EU. It would then be ratified by the European Council, made up of the leaders of the EU member states.
    The new European Commissioner for the Promotion of the European Way of Life, Margaritis Schinas, expressed support for the scheme:
    "Migration Commissioner Ylva Johansson and I met Horst Seehofer. We completely agree with Germany. We need this consensus from all Member States, and we are working hard to achieve it."
    Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babiš, however, voiced his opposition to the German plan. In an interview with the Czech news agency ČTK, he said that he saw through Seehofer's semantics:
    "We fundamentally reject illegal migration. We also reject allowing smuggling gangs to decide who will live in Europe. We reject quotas and I am surprised that this issue has once again returned to the negotiating table. I hope that the new European Commission will put a stop to this."
    Czech Interior Minister Jan Hamáček said that the Czech Republic would "coordinate our position" with the other members of the Visegrád Four (V4), a cultural and political alliance of four Central European states — the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...-take-migrants
    @r3volution 3.0, this will destroy the EU.
    And so much for the idea of decisions needing to be unanimous:

    The European Court of Justice ruled that a qualified majority vote was sufficient because the EU "was not required to act unanimously when it adopted the contested decision."
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    No

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  4. #3
    [QUOTE=Swordsmyth;6892961]
    Countries in Central and Eastern Europe are opposed to mandatory relocations on the basis that decisions about the granting of residence permits should be kept at the national level. They have noted that by unilaterally imposing migrant quotas on EU member states, unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are seeking to force the democratically elected leaders of Europe to submit to their diktat.




    Destroying their right to self-determination.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks

  5. #4
    Germany wants to flood the EU with illegal's to bolster its own position. Similar to the Democrats.

  6. #5
    Poland told 'em to $#@! off once, this might be interesting.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth;6892961@[U
    r3volution 3.0[/U], this will destroy the EU.
    Immigration won't destroy the EU.

    The nationalistic reaction to it might.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    right to self-determination.
    If this means the right to have a democratic government, with an electorate composed of one's countrymen (however exactly "countrymen" might be defined), I'd say that "right to self-determination" directly contradicts individual rights ("life, liberty, and property"). For example, if the democratic government elected by one's countrymen decides to steal one's property, the advocate of the "right to self-determination" would have to say that this policy is moral. So, for those who consider themselves champions of both individual rights and of the "right to self-determination" of collectives, a choice has to be made.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-08-2019 at 07:44 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Immigration won't destroy the EU.

    The nationalistic reaction to it might.
    Both will and the destruction will be the fault of the EU itself.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Immigration won't destroy the EU.

    The nationalistic reaction to it might.



    If this means the right to have a democratic government, with an electorate composed of one's countrymen (however exactly "countrymen" might be defined), I'd say that "right to self-determination" directly contradicts individual rights ("life, liberty, and property"). For example, if the democratic government elected by one's countrymen decides to steal one's property, the advocate of the "right to self-determination" would have to say that this policy is moral. So, for those who consider themselves champions of both individual rights and of the "right to self-determination" of collectives, a choice has to be made.
    A valid point.

    I see it as those who democratically elect a government with self-determination would (I hope) also includes individual rights. Basically, breaking down government to smaller and smaller components.

    So, 49 states would understand that CA wants to secede under self determination and CA understands that the county level wants to leave as well and be individual or perhaps join up with Nevada.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Both will and the destruction will be the fault of the EU itself.
    At the risk of demonstrating Godwin's Law, that's like saying that the existence of Jews is to blame for the rise of national socialism.

    In a purely amoral, causal sense, that's partly true, but as to fault...

    Should we blame the existence of a market economy (or facsimile thereof) for the rise of antifa and the like?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    At the risk of demonstrating Godwin's Law, that's like saying that the existence of Jews is to blame for the rise of national socialism.

    In a purely amoral, causal sense, that's partly true, but as to fault...

    Should we blame the existence of a market economy (or facsimile thereof) for the rise of antifa and the like?
    LOL

    The EU is the bad actor here and it is directly causing its own destruction.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    The EU is the bad actor here and it is directly causing its own destruction.
    The bad actors are those pushing the EU to pursue individual-rights-violating protectionist policies.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    A valid point.

    I see it as those who democratically elect a government with self-determination would (I hope) also includes individual rights. Basically, breaking down government to smaller and smaller components.

    So, 49 states would understand that CA wants to secede under self determination and CA understands that the county level wants to leave as well and be individual or perhaps join up with Nevada.
    I take the position that who governs doesn't matter; all that matters is how they govern.

    Californians don't have a right to govern themselves; they have a right to be governed well (whether by Californians, Texans, Chinese, or Inuits).

    ..."governed well" meaning, in a manner consistent with individual rights.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I take the position that who governs doesn't matter; all that matters is how they govern.

    Californians don't have a right to govern themselves; they have a right to be governed well (whether by Californians, Texans, Chinese, or Inuits).

    ..."governed well" meaning, in a manner consistent with individual rights.
    And they (or others) get to determine what that is. Catalonia should determine for itself and as you say be consistent with individual rights.

    Which makes me wonder, at what point does a government become to intrusive to those rights? I guess its as much as the individual (or persons) are willing to tolerate? A balancing act between the smallest least intrusive government while still having one with the maximum amount of freedom.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    And they (or others) get to determine what that is. Catalonia should determine for itself and as you say be consistent with individual rights.

    Which makes me wonder, at what point does a government become to intrusive to those rights? I guess its as much as the individual (or persons) are willing to tolerate? A balancing act between the smallest least intrusive government while still having one with the maximum amount of freedom.
    Get to determine what "individual rights" means?

    I'll have to disagree.

    From a libertarian perspective, individual rights are clearly defined.

    If, as a result of independence, the rights of the individuals living in those areas would suffer, on balance, then independence isn't justified.

    Scottish independence very likely would impair the rights of Scots (Scotland is much more socialistic than the UK as a whole, bad as that is). Catalan independence is more of a gray area (at least to me, a person who doesn't read Spanish, let alone Catalan), but the success of Podemos (unusually socialistic party even by Spanish standards) in that region suggests that independence would result in a curtailment of the rights of Catalans, e.g. higher taxes and spending. Catalonia was, lest we forget, a stronghold of the left in the Spanish civil war. Ultimately, I think that hyper-federalism is a desirable system, but these particular examples of decentralizing movements aren't likely to result in improvements from a libertarian point of view.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-08-2019 at 10:13 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Get to determine what "individual rights" means?

    I'll have to disagree.

    From a libertarian perspective, individual rights are clearly defined.

    If, as a result of independence, the rights of the individuals living in those areas would suffer, on balance, then independence isn't justified.

    Scottish independence very likely would impair the rights of Scots (Scotland is much more socialistic than the UK as a whole, bad as that is). Catalan independence is more of a gray area (at least to me, a person who doesn't read Spanish, let alone Catalan), but the success of Podemos (unusually socialistic party even by Spanish standards) in that region suggests that independence would result in a curtailment of the rights of Catalans, e.g. higher taxes and spending. Catalonia was, lest we forget, a stronghold of the left in the Spanish civil war. Ultimately, I think that hyper-federalism is a desirable system, but these particular examples of decentralizing movements aren't likely to result in improvements from a libertarian point of view.
    Agree, you stated what I was searching for, "decentralizing". I think culture & religion plays a huge part as well. Religious mindset which guides government as we know can be as totalitarian as any totalitarian government without one.
    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Federal Reserve Notes of patriotic central banks

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Agree, you stated what I was searching for, "decentralizing". I think culture & religion plays a huge part as well. Religious mindset which guides government as we know can be as totalitarian as any totalitarian government without one.
    Certain difficulties with current independence movements notwithstanding, an ideal arrangement long-term might be for the current member states of the EU to dissolve into smaller parts. Spain to Catalonia, Andalusia, etc; Germany to Wurttemberg and Bavaria, etc (maybe even resurrect Prussia); etc. Extreme political decentralization promotes extreme economic competition to the benefit of liberty (state A can't tax the crap out of its people, because they can easily flee to state B). This is the cause of the "European Miracle," the sustained per capita GDP growth that made Europe master of the world, and much to the benefit of the world, until Europe destroyed itself. As to that destruction, extreme political fragmentation also promotes extreme military competition, which explains the difference between these two maps:



    That's just Germany, mind you; hundreds and hundreds of tiny states, most too small to even represent on that map


    There were about an order of magnitude fewer states in the world in 1914 than there were in Germany alone a few centuries earlier.

    This is the trouble; the extreme political decentralization which encourages liberalism destroyed itself through military competition.

    Hence a federation of some kind is needed.

    ...like, for instance, the EU,

    The EU in its present form is far from that ideal.

    ...but it's the closest Europe has come to decentralized unification, or any kind of unification, in 2000 years.

    And we certainly don't want the alternative...



    We tried that, twice: didn't go so well.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 12-08-2019 at 10:50 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Certain difficulties with current independence movements notwithstanding, an ideal arrangement long-term might be for the current member states of the EU to dissolve into smaller parts. Spain to Catalonia, Andalusia, etc; Germany to Wurttemberg and Bavaria, etc (maybe even resurrect Prussia); etc. Extreme political decentralization promotes extreme economic competition to the benefit of liberty (state A can't tax the crap out of its people, because they can easily flee to state B). This is the cause of the "European Miracle," the sustained per capita GDP growth that made Europe master of the world, and much to the benefit of the world, until Europe destroyed itself. As to that destruction, extreme political fragmentation also promotes extreme military competition, which explains the difference between these two maps:



    That's just Germany, mind you; hundreds and hundreds of tiny states, most too small to even represent on that map


    There were about an order of magnitude fewer states in the world in 1914 than there were in Germany alone a few centuries earlier.

    This is the trouble; the extreme political decentralization which encourages liberalism destroyed itself through military competition.

    Hence a federation of some kind is needed.

    ...like, for instance, the EU,

    The EU in its present form is far from that ideal.

    ...but it's the closest Europe has come to decentralized unification, or any kind of unification, in 2000 years.

    And we certainly don't want the alternative...



    We tried that, twice: didn't go so well.
    The bigger the states get the bigger their wars get.
    The EU will cause some of the biggest wars yet.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The bigger the states get the bigger their wars get.
    The EU will cause some of the biggest wars yet.
    As long as the EU exists, there can't be another European war.

    If you get your wish...
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    As long as the EU exists, there can't be another European war.

    If you get your wish...
    They will have wars with outsiders or they will fight among themselves for control and the wars will be worse than ever.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They will have wars with outsiders or they will fight among themselves for control and the wars will be worse than ever.
    Wouldn't it be ironic if those who oppose immigration in the name of preserving European civilization end up causing a war which destroys it?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Wouldn't it be ironic if those who oppose immigration in the name of preserving European civilization end up causing a war which destroys it?
    It would be those who let in millions of hostile immigrants who would be responsible, they will destroy European civilization if there is no war and if the wars go badly they will be responsible for causing them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It would be those who let in millions of hostile immigrants who would be responsible, they will destroy European civilization if there is no war and if the wars go badly they will be responsible for causing them.
    Have you ever visited the old continent SS?

    I wonder if you truly appreciate the value of what you're risking so casually.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Have you ever visited the old continent SS?

    I wonder if you truly appreciate the value of what you're risking so casually.
    No, I haven't been there.

    But it is the people who let in the hostile foreigners who are risking it so causally, if I had my way it would never have been at risk from the hostile foreigners or the EU.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, I haven't been there.

    But it is the people who let in the hostile foreigners who are risking it so causally, if I had my way it would never have been at risk from the hostile foreigners or the EU.
    I suggest you go to Florence and look up at the duomo; then tell me that it's worth risking another war.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I suggest you go to Florence and look up at the duomo; then tell me that it's worth risking another war.
    I suggest you look at all the desecrated and destroyed churches and all the other devastation being caused by the invaders; then tell me it's worth risking another war.

    War and conquest can't be prevented now thanks to the EU and the invasion.

    It's not the fault of those who will fight to preserve what can be preserved.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I suggest you look at all the desecrated and destroyed churches and all the other devastation being caused by the invaders; then tell me it's worth risking another war.
    How many churches have been desecrated by Muslims?

    How many have been desecrated by angry yoots with names like Fritz and Giorgio?

    Europe, like its little brother on this side of the ocean, has a problem.

    But it isn't Muslims, in the same way as our problem isn't Mexicans (or Chinese, or whoever's the next vote-generating scapegoat).

    War and conquest can't be prevented now thanks to the EU and the invasion.
    The fear of Muslims conquering Europe stopped making sense when Vienna didn't fall.

    Again, the rot is coming from within.

    Rome wasn't conquered by barbarians; it disintegrated, dissolved, one day stopped giving orders.

    That's what will happen the day after the next and last European war ends, if that's allowed to occur.

    It's not the fault of those who will fight to preserve what can be preserved.
    There's a reason that people like Otto von Habsburg, who knew something of multi-ethnic states, spent their lives promoting the EU. They had lived through two wars, which ended the world, twice. It's impossible to overstate the difference between the world in 1914 and in 1945. People who saw this happen fought desperately to make sure that what could be preserved, what had not already been destroyed, would be preserved, and that it would never happen again. Europe is a single civilization, and it should never be divided again.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



Similar Threads

  1. Germany Returning Migrants to Greece
    By Swordsmyth in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-17-2018, 10:21 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-10-2017, 03:06 PM
  3. Germany Confiscating Homes To Use For Migrants
    By Anti Federalist in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 92
    Last Post: 05-28-2017, 04:07 PM
  4. Nearly 10 attacks a day on migrants in Germany in 2016
    By TheCount in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 04-01-2017, 12:42 PM
  5. Think twice before coming, Germany tells Afghan would-be migrants
    By enhanced_deficit in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-16-2015, 10:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •