Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Fight Another 'Terror War' Against Drug Cartels? There's a Better Way

  1. #1

    Fight Another 'Terror War' Against Drug Cartels? There's a Better Way

    Weekly Update --- Fight Another 'Terror War' Against Drug Cartels? There's a Better Way



    The 50-year US war on drugs has been a total failure. The 20 year “war on terror” has likewise been a gigantic US government disaster. So what to do about two of the greatest policy failures in US history? According to President Trump and many in Washington, the answer is to combine them!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Ron Paul right as always!

    And I'd +rep you, @Brian4Liberty, again if I could.
    There is no spoon.

  4. #3
    End the war on drugs.
    And while you work on that militarize the border.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 12-05-2019 at 04:46 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    The cited solution is only partial. I agree with decriminalization, but there must be also stern controls on taxation. California is set to tax the $#@! out of dope, which will have the same driving effect as false criminalization. The market will go underground to evade taxes and you're back to cartels.

    Far more significantly, I will point out that even if all drugs are decriminalized, the cartels will simply move more deeply into prostitution, other forms of human trafficking, and other nefarious endeavors. They will not simply toss up their hands and go away, and if we can say there was no moral justification for the war on drugs, we cannot make the same claim where human trafficking and other real crimes are concerned.

    The ugly truth is that the cartels will probably have to be exterminated if we are to be true to the notions of the guaranty and protection of the rights of all Americans.

    I would state, however, that there is a good chance we can accomplish the goal of neutralizing the threat by making Mexico and other "governments" do the work for us. We could economically strangle Mexico to the point they would eat their own children, which I believe would secure their cooperation long before that point arrived.

    Make. MX build the wall? That, my pals, represents a significant failure in creative thinking and of setting one's sights painfully low. Make them genocide the cartels, whether literally or functionally, it matters little - though to be honest I prefer the former because dead people pose no threats.

    I don't care whether MX likes us. They have allowed their people to wage war on us and IMO it is high time we made them pay for their perfidious behavior. Starve them out awhile and the president of MX would soon be singing a very different tune. No need to shed American blood when the responsible parties are there to do it for us.

    Honestly, I am a bit surprised Dr. Paul failed to address this most significant aspect of the situation.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.


  6. #5
    "I’m an economist, but the economics problem is strictly tertiary. It’s a moral problem. It’s a problem of the harm which the government is doing.
    I have estimated statistically that the prohibition of drugs produces, on the average, ten thousand homicides a year. It’s a moral problem that the government is going around killing ten thousand people. It’s a moral problem that the government is making into criminals people, who may be doing something you and I don’t approve of, but who are doing something that hurts nobody else." -Milton Friedman (1991)

    The war on drugs has not produced the outcome that justified its instantiation. If we don't like the choices individuals make, we can persuade them, incentivize alternatives, or provide them with the tools to make different choices. What we can't afford to do is go on thinking we can make that choice for them. We do real harm by pursuing policies that would assume otherwise.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The cited solution is only partial. I agree with decriminalization, but there must be also stern controls on taxation. California is set to tax the $#@! out of dope, which will have the same driving effect as false criminalization. The market will go underground to evade taxes and you're back to cartels.

    Far more significantly, I will point out that even if all drugs are decriminalized, the cartels will simply move more deeply into prostitution, other forms of human trafficking, and other nefarious endeavors. They will not simply toss up their hands and go away, and if we can say there was no moral justification for the war on drugs, we cannot make the same claim where human trafficking and other real crimes are concerned.

    The ugly truth is that the cartels will probably have to be exterminated if we are to be true to the notions of the guaranty and protection of the rights of all Americans.

    I would state, however, that there is a good chance we can accomplish the goal of neutralizing the threat by making Mexico and other "governments" do the work for us. We could economically strangle Mexico to the point they would eat their own children, which I believe would secure their cooperation long before that point arrived.

    Make. MX build the wall? That, my pals, represents a significant failure in creative thinking and of setting one's sights painfully low. Make them genocide the cartels, whether literally or functionally, it matters little - though to be honest I prefer the former because dead people pose no threats.

    I don't care whether MX likes us. They have allowed their people to wage war on us and IMO it is high time we made them pay for their perfidious behavior. Starve them out awhile and the president of MX would soon be singing a very different tune. No need to shed American blood when the responsible parties are there to do it for us.

    Honestly, I am a bit surprised Dr. Paul failed to address this most significant aspect of the situation.
    You must spread some reputation around.................
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The cited solution is only partial. I agree with decriminalization, but there must be also stern controls on taxation. California is set to tax the $#@! out of dope, which will have the same driving effect as false criminalization. The market will go underground to evade taxes and you're back to cartels.
    ...
    I’ve heard that is already the case. People can grow their own for free, but not every consumer wants to do that (or can’t).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ammodotcom View Post
    "I have estimated statistically that the prohibition of drugs produces, on the average, ten thousand homicides a year.
    This term is problematic and I raise the point not so much because it is a peeve of mine, which it is, and not just for clarification, but to yet again reiterate the fact that abuse of language is one of the greatest of all human transgressions.

    Does the use here refer to justly incurred deaths, or those unjust? Is it both?

    In the case of the unjust, then the proper term is "murder", for that is the felony. All murders are felonious, but not so for all homicides. If I kill a man in self-defense, I have committed a homicide, but I have not committed murder.

    Words are important, for they are the primary means by which meaning is conveyed from one man to another. If, as a prosecutor, I am told that Johnny Q. has committed a homicide, I have not sufficient information as to whether I may justly charge him with a crime. But if I am told he has committed a murder, then I do - all else equal, of course.

    I wish people would care enough to take the proper care to choose their words with greater circumspection. Alas, it appears they remain uninterested in such concerns and that they shall remain so well into the blue future.


    And for the record, I too pooch on occasion in these ways, but I can at least make the honest claim that I do indeed endeavor with good diligence to avoid this lapse of good habit with better than reasonable success.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.




  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I’ve heard that is already the case. People can grow their own for free, but not every consumer wants to do that (or can’t).
    I'm sorry Brian, I must beg your indulgence for my thick-headedness, but WHAT is already the case, that things are being driven underground? If yes, then I am not quite making the connection with the sentence that follows. Could you please clarify?
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.


  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I'm sorry Brian, I must beg your indulgence for my thick-headedness, but WHAT is already the case, that things are being driven underground? If yes, then I am not quite making the connection with the sentence that follows. Could you please clarify?
    Sure. It is already going underground. And the other point is that there is still demand for purchasing, despite the fact that a person could grow their own.

    It is analogous to any other vegatable. You could grow your own, but there is still demand to purchase, because not everyone can or will grow their own. If there are outrageous taxes on the "official" supply line from regulated farmer to regulated grocery store, unregulated farmers markets would be cheaper. And regulated grocery stores might turn to cheaper unregulated farmers.

    Drug cartels are engaging in illegal grows, often on public lands, and that supply can be sold via their usual drug dealing network, or it can find it's way into the more legitimate shops. No taxes on their end.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    Here is an angle nobody is considering. The 'Zetas" drug cartel was trained by U.S. Special Forces.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...diers-military

    https://shadowproof.com/2012/08/24/m...-the-americas/

    So how exactly is Donald Trump and Pete Bootyjudge's plan going to be any different?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    Does Mexico have oil? We may have to invade.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    No taxes on their end.
    "Government".

    FEH.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.


  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    This term is problematic and I raise the point not so much because it is a peeve of mine, which it is, and not just for clarification, but to yet again reiterate the fact that abuse of language is one of the greatest of all human transgressions.

    Does the use here refer to justly incurred deaths, or those unjust? Is it both?

    In the case of the unjust, then the proper term is "murder", for that is the felony. All murders are felonious, but not so for all homicides. If I kill a man in self-defense, I have committed a homicide, but I have not committed murder.

    Words are important, for they are the primary means by which meaning is conveyed from one man to another. If, as a prosecutor, I am told that Johnny Q. has committed a homicide, I have not sufficient information as to whether I may justly charge him with a crime. But if I am told he has committed a murder, then I do - all else equal, of course.

    I wish people would care enough to take the proper care to choose their words with greater circumspection. Alas, it appears they remain uninterested in such concerns and that they shall remain so well into the blue future.


    And for the record, I too pooch on occasion in these ways, but I can at least make the honest claim that I do indeed endeavor with good diligence to avoid this lapse of good habit with better than reasonable success.
    I don't know that anything is lost if you change the word to something else that ascribes less criminal culpability. How many people will die while we're discussing the semantics of the word homicide and are you okay with that number? The drug war is ineffective, unnecessarily criminalizes and kills people. Personally, that's persuasive enough for me to reject the need for its existence.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ammodotcom View Post
    I don't know that anything is lost if you change the word to something else that ascribes less criminal culpability.
    Word choice is important. Not all homicide is criminal. In fact, it appears that more homicides occur than do murders. I'm not sure how it is that you do not see why this distinction is important.

    How many people will die while we're discussing the semantics of the word homicide and are you okay with that number?
    What has this clarification to do with a burglar being shot stone dead in Boise?

    I am attempting to bring clarity. If you do not value the effort or see the significance, that is OK. It's wrong, mind you, but your choice to make.

    The drug war is ineffective, unnecessarily criminalizes and kills people. Personally, that's persuasive enough for me to reject the need for its existence.
    I cannot quite agree. Understanding the valid role of "government" in the most unfortunate case that we decide to have one, is important to our ability to judge their actions. Necessary conditions are often not sufficient. I am a strong believer in the value of sufficient precision when discussing and considering issues that speak to human freedom and the possibility of placing some limitation on individual prerogatives to act.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    Pray for reset.




Similar Threads

  1. U.S. Feds Working With Drug Cartels?
    By jmdrake in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-19-2013, 04:16 PM
  2. Anonymous' threatens Mexican drug cartels
    By Dianne in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-31-2011, 02:51 PM
  3. Reports: CIA Working with Mexican Drug Cartels
    By FrankRep in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 10:27 PM
  4. Where Drug Cartels Get Guns
    By Pericles in forum Personal Security & Defense
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-01-2010, 02:26 PM
  5. Mexican drug cartels already in the US!
    By LiveFree79 in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-19-2009, 11:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •