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Thread: Democrats Now ‘Say Out Loud’ Intent to Turn America Blue by Immigration

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You haven't been actually following the conversation have you? From the jump I said Obama's rhetoric was worse but Trump's actual policies were worse. Next?
    Rhetoric matters when you have a lot of influence. His words convinced a lot of voters to be for gun control when he he could of done the opposite. Sometimes these things are like dominos and and his rhetoric has been worse for the RKBA than any politician in living history. He has single handedly divided the country on this issue.



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  3. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Rhetoric matters when you have a lot of influence. His words convinced a lot of voters to be for gun control when he he could of done the opposite. Sometimes these things are like dominos and and his rhetoric has been worse for the RKBA than any politician in living history. He has single handedly divided the country on this issue.
    jm seems to think Trump's rhetoric counts for the purposes of this conversation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    LOL



    So in other words the ban on the import of Russian firearms is a big deal....until you find out that Trump did expanded it. LOL. And if you read the entire post I just gave you, you would know that the issue wasn't the 2nd amendment. The issue was sanctions against Russia. I disagree with those sanctions mind you, but this isn't even a second amendment issue.



    I already address Fast and Furious when I said Fast and furious, while a crime, did not affect the second amendment and was a continuation of a Bush policy. Also You WRONGLY stated that Trump ended F&F when in fact it was ended while Obama was still president!



    I'm sure you can cherry pick nonsense all day. But clearly you haven't even begun to scratch the surface on Trump's anti-gun policies or else you wouldn't have posted about Obama banning Russian made weapons as "proof" that Obama was worse on guns than Trump when Trump EXPANDED the program!

    And to @Anti Federalist ^this is part of what's wrong with the messaging. When people see transparent attempts to gloss over abuses by Trump they turn around and say "You just don't like Obama because he's black and a democrat." And I look at that witch Dana Loesch of the NRA. She should have stood up for Philando Castille. Remember, the black man that got murdered in cold blood by a hispanic police officer after he told the officer he a concealed carry permit? The same officer who's partner testified that he wasn't in fear of his life? That was a perfect time for the NRA to show they cared about ALL gun owners. But instead Dana went into "blue lives matter/refer madness" mode. The murdering officer in question got paid $48,000. Tell me, how do I sell that to my community?

    Speaking of the NRA, they debunked the whole "ammo buy" conspiracy theory. I don't trust the NRA but a broken clock is right twice a day.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2012...buy-ammunition
    After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release, Rep. Westmoreland's office explains:

    If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn't that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.


    I will give the Cliffs Notes of what Republican Pro Second Amendment Congressman Westmoreland said.

    Y'all already know we have a giant unconstitutional Department Of Homeland Insecurity that I fully support as it was created under REPUBLICAN president Bush. And all those officers need their training bullets. Shut up mundane!

    Seriously NOBODY LOOKED INTO WHAT DHS WAS DOING UNTIL OBAMA BECAME PRESIDENT! You had Jason Chaffitz asking "Why is DHS buying MRAPS?" The obvious answer? Because under the previous president they were buying MRAPS!

    You know what sells (some) minorities of freedom? Ron Paul admitting that, yes, the war on drugs is racist against blacks.



    You know what doesn't sell? Token blacks like Candace Owens saying that police brutality is a myth and falsely claiming that she never heard of racism until Obama became president all the while ignoring her own race baiting past!



    I can sell Ron Paul. I can sell Colin Noir (though I wish he would leave the NRA for the GOA). I can't sell clowns like Candace Owens ore people who are obviously mentally disturbed like Kanye West. And I say that as someone who likes Kanye and appreciates what he did to help push the First Step Act.

    And @dannno, I know you love Candace Owens, but she is a complete fraud.

    Speaking of Colin Noir, he's got a lot of great 2nd Amendment content. You should follow him if you haven't already.





    You are the one whitewashing and ignoring O'Bummer's record so you can use the propaganda talking point of claiming Trump is worse.

    Trump undid many of O'Bummer's anti-gun policies and hasn't done nearly as much against guns.

    You are still ignoring most of the anti-gun things O'Bummer did that I posted.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are the one whitewashing and ignoring O'Bummer's record so you can use the propaganda talking point of claiming Trump is worse.

    Trump undid many of O'Bummer's anti-gun policies and hasn't done nearly as much against guns.

    You are still ignoring most of the anti-gun things O'Bummer did that I posted.
    Because just about everything you wrote is cherry picked bullshyt! I freaking busted your lies wide open on the issue of Obama banning Russian made weapons by pointing out not only that Trump expanded this, but that it had nothing to do with gun rights and everything to do with sanctions! I pointed out that even pro gun republicans have debunked the "Obama bought up the ammo to stop gun rights" conspiracy theory! FFLs? The second amendment says nothing about the right to sell guns, only the right to keep and bear them. Yes someone has to sell them for someone else to buy them but the fact that legal purchases of firearms under Obama increased by 158% proves that whatever happened with FFLs had no actual bearing on gun ownership! In fact the 158% increase in gun sales is the most likely cause for the so called "ammo shortage." You just full of crap...as usual. You've proven your own bias on the issue. You couldn't even give a "My bad...I was wrong" on the "Obama is worse because he banned import of Russian guns" issue.

    One more time. THE BANNING OF A GUN ACCESSORY BY EXECUTIVE ORDER IS THE WORSE VIOLATION OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT BY ANY PRESIDENT SINCE RONALD REAGAN EXPANDED THE MACHINE GUN BAN! Yes it's worse than Clinton's assault weapons ban because that had a sunset in it. @Anti Federalist knows this. Just because you are in perpetual denial means nothing.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  6. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Because just about everything you wrote is cherry picked bullshyt! I freaking busted your lies wide open on the issue of Obama banning Russian made weapons by pointing out not only that Trump expanded this, but that it had nothing to do with gun rights and everything to do with sanctions! I pointed out that even pro gun republicans have debunked the "Obama bought up the ammo to stop gun rights" conspiracy theory! FFLs? The second amendment says nothing about the right to sell guns, only the right to keep and bear them. Yes someone has to sell them for someone else to buy them but the fact that legal purchases of firearms under Obama increased by 158% proves that whatever happened with FFLs had no actual bearing on gun ownership! In fact the 158% increase in gun sales is the most likely cause for the so called "ammo shortage." You just full of crap...as usual. You've proven your own bias on the issue. You couldn't even give a "My bad...I was wrong" on the "Obama is worse because he banned import of Russian guns" issue.

    One more time. THE BANNING OF A GUN ACCESSORY BY EXECUTIVE ORDER IS THE WORSE VIOLATION OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT BY ANY PRESIDENT SINCE RONALD REAGAN EXPANDED THE MACHINE GUN BAN! Yes it's worse than Clinton's assault weapons ban because that had a sunset in it. @Anti Federalist knows this. Just because you are in perpetual denial means nothing.
    You continue to ignore all of the other things O'Bummer did.
    And if guns sold is a measure of how good a President is on guns then Trump is the best President ever.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You continue to ignore all of the other things O'Bummer did.
    Nope. I addressed the fake ammo conspiracy theory, the FFLs, the using of mental health records to take guns from vets, Fast and Furious, and the ban on import of Russian guns. I think that covered everything you brought up.

    And if guns sold is a measure of how good a President is on guns then Trump is the best President ever.
    That isn't what I said. What I said was the the FFLs had no impact on Americans' ability to buy guns. Trump's bumpfire stock ban has had an affect on Americans ability to buy a previously legal gun accessory. Using your logic if Trump went forward with an assault weapons ban he would be a good on guns also long as people bought enough double barreled shotguns.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  8. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Nope. I addressed the fake ammo conspiracy theory, the FFLs, the using of mental health records to take guns from vets, Fast and Furious, and the ban on import of Russian guns. I think that covered everything you brought up.
    Proving you didn't read it.

    I'll repost some:

    On Friday, July 22, just as members of his party were gathering in Philadelphia to coronate Hillary Clinton as their presidential nominee, the Obama Administration once again released a sweeping gun control measure by executive fiat. This time the bad news came via the U.S. State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which is primarily responsible for administering the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and its implementing rules, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). The upshot is that DDTC is labeling commercial gunsmiths as “manufacturers” for performing relatively simple work such as threading a barrel or fabricating a small custom part for an older firearm. Under the AECA, “manufacturers” are required to register with DDTC at significant expense or risk onerous criminal penalties.
    As with prior executive actions on guns, the administration released its dictate suddenly and without advance warning to or prior input from affected businesses, completely bypassing the normal formalities associated with a significant rulemaking. The guidance is also likely to result in more confusion than clarity and may significantly chill heretofore legal conduct associated with gunsmithing.
    By way of background, the AECA and ITAR concern rules by which military materiel is exported from, and imported to, the United States. The so-called “defense articles” governed by the AECA/ITAR are compiled in what is known as the U.S. Munitions List and include some, but not all, firearms and ammunition, as well as their parts and components. Thus, for purposes of the regime, a spring or floorplate from the magazine of a controlled firearm is subject to the same regulatory framework as the firearm itself.
    The AECA/ITAR require anybody who engages in the business of “manufacturing” a defense article to register with DDTC and pay a registration fee that for new applicants is currently $2,250 per year. These requirements apply, even if the business does not, and does not intend to, export any defense article. Moreover, under ITAR, “only one occasion of manufacturing … a defense article” is necessary for a commercial entity to be considered “engaged in the business” and therefore subject to the regime’s requirements.

    More at: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...ve-gun-control




    The National Rifle Association on Wednesday filed a lawsuit challenging a new federal regulation requiring gun merchants along the border with Mexico to report bulk sales of certain semiautomatic rifles, contending that the Obama administration exceeded its powers by imposing the rule last month without Congressional permission.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2011...gun-sales-rule




    NRA: Gun blogs, videos, web forums threatened by new Obama regulation


    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ama-regulation




    When you think of the Obama administration's stalled threat to ban popular rifle ammunition under the rubric of prohibited "armor-piercing" handgun ammunition, think of the movie "The Terminator," and Arnold Schwarzenegger’s famous line—"I'll be baaaack."
    Because they will be back.
    After the massive February and early March outcry from gun owners, led by National Rifle Association members and bipartisan majority opposition in both houses of Congress, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) delayed its ban on M855 5.56 mm ball rifle ammo.
    News media headlines in coverage of the stand-down used words like “drops,” “scraps,” “abandons” and “pulls,” giving the impression that the ban is dead. But nothing could be further from the truth.
    In suddenly halting this latest assault on gun owners, BATFE used an ominous phrase, “at this time.” Additionally, the agency said the action “deserves further study.”
    Bank on this—“further study” will almost certainly result in even harsher action in the future.
    In fact, a renewed attack on common AR-15 ammunition came just two days after the announced stand-down. On March 12, BATFE Director B. Todd Jones told a Senate Appropriations Committee that he considers all 5.56 ammo to be a threat to law enforcement officers. That same day, a draft of a letter to BATFE from a group of congressional Democrats was made public that called on BATFE to quickly revive plans to ban M855 ammo.

    The fraudulent nature of BATFE’s outside-federal-law process, which ignored the Administrative Procedures Act—mandatory for such regulation changes—was proven in the March 10 stand-down announcement referring to the 80,000-plus letters and emails of opposition as “informal comments.” Yet there was nothing “informal” about the impending bullet ban.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...o-ban-all-ammo




    There was a lot more that he did or tried to do and Trump undid a lot of it.

    And the UN treaty would have killed the 2ndA entirely, the Senate may not have ratified it at the time but sooner or later they would have gotten a Senate that would have.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Proving you didn't read it.
    Wrong.


    I'll repost some:

    On Friday, July 22, just as members of his party were gathering in Philadelphia to coronate Hillary Clinton as their presidential nominee, the Obama Administration once again released a sweeping gun control measure by executive fiat. This time the bad news came via the U.S. State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which is primarily responsible for administering the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and its implementing rules, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). The upshot is that DDTC is labeling commercial gunsmiths as “manufacturers” for performing relatively simple work such as threading a barrel or fabricating a small custom part for an older firearm. Under the AECA, “manufacturers” are required to register with DDTC at significant expense or risk onerous criminal penalties.
    As with prior executive actions on guns, the administration released its dictate suddenly and without advance warning to or prior input from affected businesses, completely bypassing the normal formalities associated with a significant rulemaking. The guidance is also likely to result in more confusion than clarity and may significantly chill heretofore legal conduct associated with gunsmithing.
    By way of background, the AECA and ITAR concern rules by which military materiel is exported from, and imported to, the United States. The so-called “defense articles” governed by the AECA/ITAR are compiled in what is known as the U.S. Munitions List and include some, but not all, firearms and ammunition, as well as their parts and components. Thus, for purposes of the regime, a spring or floorplate from the magazine of a controlled firearm is subject to the same regulatory framework as the firearm itself.
    More cherry picking. Trump is continuing the program as of 2019.

    https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...g-decontrolled

    Next?


    The National Rifle Association on Wednesday filed a lawsuit challenging a new federal regulation requiring gun merchants along the border with Mexico to report bulk sales of certain semiautomatic rifles, contending that the Obama administration exceeded its powers by imposing the rule last month without Congressional permission.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/2011...gun-sales-rule
    Wait a second. I thought you were worried about all of those rapists and murders in Mexico? I guess not. Okay. I'll give you Obama tried to keep guns out of the hands of Mexican narco terrorists. Not as bad as a bumpfire stock ban. Next?

    NRA: Gun blogs, videos, web forums threatened by new Obama regulation[/B]

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ama-regulation
    I take it you just read the headlines and didn't follow through and read the regulations. The same regulations exist under Trump.

    See: https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...longer-warrant

    Next?



    When you think of the Obama administration's stalled threat to ban popular rifle ammunition under the rubric of prohibited "armor-piercing" handgun ammunition, think of the movie "The Terminator," and Arnold Schwarzenegger’s famous line—"I'll be baaaack."
    Because they will be back.
    After the massive February and early March outcry from gun owners, led by National Rifle Association members and bipartisan majority opposition in both houses of Congress, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) delayed its ban on M855 5.56 mm ball rifle ammo.
    News media headlines in coverage of the stand-down used words like “drops,” “scraps,” “abandons” and “pulls,” giving the impression that the ban is dead. But nothing could be further from the truth.
    In suddenly halting this latest assault on gun owners, BATFE used an ominous phrase, “at this time.” Additionally, the agency said the action “deserves further study.”
    Bank on this—“further study” will almost certainly result in even harsher action in the future.
    In fact, a renewed attack on common AR-15 ammunition came just two days after the announced stand-down. On March 12, BATFE Director B. Todd Jones told a Senate Appropriations Committee that he considers all 5.56 ammo to be a threat to law enforcement officers. That same day, a draft of a letter to BATFE from a group of congressional Democrats was made public that called on BATFE to quickly revive plans to ban M855 ammo.

    The fraudulent nature of BATFE’s outside-federal-law process, which ignored the Administrative Procedures Act—mandatory for such regulation changes—was proven in the March 10 stand-down announcement referring to the 80,000-plus letters and emails of opposition as “informal comments.” Yet there was nothing “informal” about the impending bullet ban.
    Here's the funny thing. When Trump's own ATF said "We can't legally ban bumpfire stocks" Trump went ahead and did that by executive order. Next?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  11. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post

    More cherry picking. Trump is continuing the program as of 2019.

    https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...g-decontrolled

    Next?
    Things Trump hasn't yet fixed are not the same as O'Bummer implementing them.

    Gun stocks are zooming higher in late session Thursday after the Trump administration passed a crucial milestone in a long-delayed rule change that would make it easier for gun companies to export firearms around the world, sources told Reuters.
    Sources said the rule change would shift oversight of firearm exports from the U.S. Department of State to the Department of Commerce. The timing of this change could occur as early as next month.
    The National Sports Shooting Foundation concluded in an earlier report that American Outdoor Brands and Sturm Ruger & Company could see foreign gun sales surge by as much as 20% upon the rule change. Both companies would likely export assault rifles and ammunition.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/gu...e-ease-exports


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Wait a second. I thought you were worried about all of those rapists and murders in Mexico? I guess not. Okay. I'll give you Obama tried to keep guns out of the hands of Mexican narco terrorists. Not as bad as a bumpfire stock ban. Next?
    Implementing a gun registration scheme against Americans that would have been expanded nationwide as the result of purposely giving guns to criminals is the proper way to describe what happened.
    It's far worse than the bumpfire ban.
    Nice spin attempt but it failed.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I take it you just read the headlines and didn't follow through and read the regulations. The same regulations exist under Trump.

    See: https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...longer-warrant

    Next?
    Things Trump hasn't yet fixed are not the same as O'Bummer implementing them.
    And Trump tried to let people post 3D printing files for guns on the internet and that is still in the courts.






    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Here's the funny thing. When Trump's own ATF said "We can't legally ban bumpfire stocks" Trump went ahead and did that by executive order. Next?
    That was bad but Trump has done far more pro-gun things than O'Bummer and far less anti-gun things.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Rhetoric matters when you have a lot of influence. His words convinced a lot of voters to be for gun control when he he could of done the opposite. Sometimes these things are like dominos and and his rhetoric has been worse for the RKBA than any politician in living history. He has single handedly divided the country on this issue.
    And Trump gave lip service to an assault weapons ban and red flag laws but thankfully backed off of them. However his "thought crime" proposal is as bad as a red flag law or perhaps even worse. As for convincing more voters to be pro-gun....I haven't seen evidence of Trump actually accomplishing that. But if he has then that's good news. Source?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    jm seems to think Trump's rhetoric counts for the purposes of this conversation.
    Where did you get that idea? Trump did a bumpfire stock ban. He didn't just talk about it.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Things Trump hasn't yet fixed are not the same as O'Bummer implementing them.
    Clearly you are the one not reading the information provided. It's not that Trump didn't "fix" what Obama did. It's that Trump is moving forward continuing what Obama did.

    From Heritage.org.

    All the Trump administration has done is to move ahead with the process the Obama administration started. This process is about exports, so it has — it should go without saying — absolutely nothing to do with the availability of firearms in the United States. Nor does it change the fact that if you want to export firearms from the United States, you have to have both an export license from the U.S. and an import license from the country you are exporting to. If that other country doesn’t want to import from the U.S., no change in the U.S. export control system will allow a U.S. exporter to sell there.

    So Heritage is praising Trump for continuing what Obama was doing and stating that it had nothing to do with the availability of firearms for law abiding Americans. In other words...you got caught cherry picking again.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 12-08-2019 at 07:25 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Where did you get that idea? Trump did a bumpfire stock ban. He didn't just talk about it.
    You included his lip service to red flag laws.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Clearly you are the one not reading the information provided. It's not that Trump didn't "fix" what Obama did. It's that Trump is moving forward continuing what Obama did.

    From Heritage.org.

    All the Trump administration has done is to move ahead with the process the Obama administration started. This process is about exports, so it has — it should go without saying — absolutely nothing to do with the availability of firearms in the United States. Nor does it change the fact that if you want to export firearms from the United States, you have to have both an export license from the U.S. and an import license from the country you are exporting to. If that other country doesn’t want to import from the U.S., no change in the U.S. export control system will allow a U.S. exporter to sell there.

    So Heritage is praising Trump for continuing what Obama was doing and stating that it had nothing to do with the availability of firearms for law abiding Americans. In other words...you got caught cherry picking again.
    Clearly you didn't read that O'Bummer tried to classify gunsmiths as "manufacturers" and focused on the wrong issue.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Clearly you didn't read that O'Bummer tried to classify gunsmiths as "manufacturers" and focused on the wrong issue.
    Oh I read that bvllshyt. I just don't believe it. There was no quote of Obama saying "gunsmiths are manufacturers." There was no executive order to that effect. Nothing. And, according to Heritage.org, Trump carried on the exact same damn policy! And worse Trump has taken NEW efforts to attack the 2nd amendment! Obama in his wettest anti-gun dream never thought of banning a gun accessory by executive order OVER THE OBJECTIONS OF THE GUN GRABBING ATF! Let that sink through your skull and into your brain for a minute. The "swamp" that Trump is supposedly trying to "drain" wouldn't agree to Trump's attack on the 2nd amendment, so Trump just did it anyway.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You included his lip service to red flag laws.
    It was more than "lip service." It was a trial balloon. Thankfully enough patriots let him know he wouldn't get re-elected if he didn't take it back. So then he came out with an Orwellian "pre crime" scheme to have social media spy on their users even further to "red flag" people for gun grabbing. (See: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/19/08...ime-algorithms)
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Oh I read that bvllshyt. I just don't believe it. There was no quote of Obama saying "gunsmiths are manufacturers." There was no executive order to that effect. Nothing. And, according to Heritage.org, Trump carried on the exact same damn policy! And worse Trump has taken NEW efforts to attack the 2nd amendment! Obama in his wettest anti-gun dream never thought of banning a gun accessory by executive order OVER THE OBJECTIONS OF THE GUN GRABBING ATF! Let that sink through your skull and into your brain for a minute. The "swamp" that Trump is supposedly trying to "drain" wouldn't agree to Trump's attack on the 2nd amendment, so Trump just did it anyway.
    Come on dude, your arguments have been proven false with fact after fact. Can't you just cry uncle and admit that the things Obama probably wanted to do were 1000x worse than the things Trump actually did? Your such an Obamabot.
    Amash>Trump

    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy



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  20. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    Come on dude, your arguments have been proven false with fact after fact. Can't you just cry uncle and admit that the things Obama probably wanted to do were 1000x worse than the things Trump actually did? Your such an Obamabot.
    Of course that was one irrelevant, cherry picked fact spammed over and over and over, and once debunked in this thread, repeated in that thread just the same way Zippy does it.

    But that's irrelevant. You've been spammed and you're supposed to shut up and let the Shyll win by default. Trump is great, Trump is good, Obama puts us in a bad mood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  21. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Oh I read that bvllshyt. I just don't believe it. There was no quote of Obama saying "gunsmiths are manufacturers." There was no executive order to that effect. Nothing. And, according to Heritage.org, Trump carried on the exact same damn policy! And worse Trump has taken NEW efforts to attack the 2nd amendment! Obama in his wettest anti-gun dream never thought of banning a gun accessory by executive order OVER THE OBJECTIONS OF THE GUN GRABBING ATF! Let that sink through your skull and into your brain for a minute. The "swamp" that Trump is supposedly trying to "drain" wouldn't agree to Trump's attack on the 2nd amendment, so Trump just did it anyway.
    One of the first regulations President Donald Trump vowed to slash was President Barack Obama's executive order on gun control that was implemented in the final year of his presidency.

    Obama's order made it mandatory for the Social Security Administration to release information about mentally ill recipients of Social Security benefits. This information would then be included in background checks, essentially prohibiting people with mental illnesses to buy guns.

    The Obama administration estimated this rule would affect about 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue.

    Obama's order was opposed by the NRA and the American Civil Liberties Union — two groups that are not usually on the same side. In a statement issued by ACLU, they said the rule "advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent."

    Trump signed House Joint Resolution 40, nullifying Obama's rule, on Feb. 28, 2017.

    The White House declared in advance that "this application of rule could endanger the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens."

    We rate this Promise Kept.

  22. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    Come on dude, your arguments have been proven false with fact after fact. Can't you just cry uncle and admit that the things Obama probably wanted to do were 1000x worse than the things Trump actually did? Your such an Obamabot.
    LOL. It's only been dis-proven for brain dead morons with Trump Delusion Syndrome. Even @Anti Federalist knows that Trump's bumpfire stock ban is worse than anything Obama did on gun control. Even @Swordsmyth has now run out of arguments. The very things he brought forward to show Obama was bad on gun control Trump continued! Just because I'm not a Trumpbot doesn't make me an Obamabot. But go ahead. Keep making yourself irrelevant.

    Edit: And you, sir, have just told one whopper of a lie. My arguments have not been proven false. I have used actual sources such as Heritage.org and the NRA to prove that Swordsmyth's arguments are the ones that are false.


    I was just informed that my sarcasm meter is broken. My apologies.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 12-20-2019 at 11:32 AM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    One of the first regulations President Donald Trump vowed to slash was President Barack Obama's executive order on gun control that was implemented in the final year of his presidency.

    Obama's order made it mandatory for the Social Security Administration to release information about mentally ill recipients of Social Security benefits. This information would then be included in background checks, essentially prohibiting people with mental illnesses to buy guns.

    The Obama administration estimated this rule would affect about 75,000 people each year who have a documented mental health issue.

    Obama's order was opposed by the NRA and the American Civil Liberties Union — two groups that are not usually on the same side. In a statement issued by ACLU, they said the rule "advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent."

    Trump signed House Joint Resolution 40, nullifying Obama's rule, on Feb. 28, 2017.

    The White House declared in advance that "this application of rule could endanger the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens."

    We rate this Promise Kept.
    Yes. He slashed an executive order to try to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and now he's done an even broader executive order using unconstitutional Orwellian pre-crime in the name of keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. One promise "kept" by putting forward something worse later!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Edit: And you, sir, have just told one whopper of a lie.
    He knows.

    Maybe he should have inserted ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  25. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He knows.

    Maybe he should have inserted ?
    Oh.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yes. He slashed an executive order to try to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and now he's done an even broader executive order using unconstitutional Orwellian pre-crime in the name of keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. One promise "kept" by putting forward something worse later!
    What executive order is that one Obama literally took the ability of people to buy guns because of mental illness what part of the second amendment says you cant have guns because you might use it on yourself. Its been the democrats slippery slope plan to errode the second amendment they did it to people who got mmj cards. I read how they are going after foreign spies and Americans commiting treason selling our country's secrets to foreign governments recently because the cold war is ramping up

  27. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    What executive order is that one Obama literally took the ability of people to buy guns because of mental illness. Its been the democrats slippery slope plan to errode the second amendment they did it to people who got mmj cards. I read how they are going after foreign spies and Americans commiting treason selling our country's secrets to foreign governments recently because the cold war is ramping up
    So...let me see if I understand you. You are upset with Obama's gun control through mental illness, but you have no problem with Trump's pre-crime plan for gun control? You don't see that as a "slippery slope?" Really?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    What executive order is that one Obama literally took the ability of people to buy guns because of mental illness what part of the second amendment says you cant have guns because you might use it on yourself. Its been the democrats slippery slope plan to errode the second amendment they did it to people who got mmj cards. I read how they are going after foreign spies and Americans commiting treason selling our country's secrets to foreign governments recently because the cold war is ramping up
    You seem to be suffering under the delusion that "Democrats bad" means "Republicans good". That mistake is exactly what enables Washington to pull this crap off.

    What mental quirk is it that causes you to read, "Republicans just as bad," and think you just saw, "Democrats good"? The reality is, you didn't.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-20-2019 at 11:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  30. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So...let me see if I understand you. You are upset with Obama's gun control through mental illness, but you have no problem with Trump's pre-crime plan for gun control? You don't see that as a "slippery slope?" Really?
    What pre crime plan executive order i read six pages of $#@! already and only see plans to go after people selling our countries secrets and who have sold out to foreign governments and people commiting espionage for foreign govenments because we are in a cold war.

  31. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You seem to be suffering under the delusion that "Democrats bad" means "Republicans good". That mistake is exactly what enables Washington to pull this crap off.

    What mental quirk is it that causes you to read, "Republicans just as bad," and think you just saw, "Democrats good"? The reality is, you didn't.
    Well in this instance one group took away peoples second amendment rights because they might use guns against themselves. One group is definitely worse.

  32. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You seem to be suffering under the delusion that "Democrats bad" means "Republicans good". That mistake is exactly what enables Washington to pull this crap off.

    What mental quirk is it that causes you to read, "Republicans just as bad," and think you just saw, "Democrats good"? The reality is, you didn't.
    Political parties suck but you have to be in a party to become president. Even Ron Paul was part of political parties.

  33. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    What pre crime plan executive order i read six pages of $#@! already and only see plans to go after people selling our countries secrets and who have sold out to foreign governments and people commiting espionage for foreign govenments because we are in a cold war.




    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-mass-...-media-1452612
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #270

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