NY bill would require HPV vaccine for children to enter school, daycare

[Created4]

It also does not require the vaccine for preschool or kindergarten but seventh grade. The OP is wrong.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298

This was already covered earlier in the thread. YOU are the one wrong.

Text from the actual bill:

Section 1. Section 2164 of the public health law, as amended by chap-
ter 401 of the laws of 2015, subdivisions 6 and 7 as amended by chapter
35 of the laws of 2019, is amended to read as follows:
§ 2164. Definitions; immunization against poliomyelitis, mumps,
measles, diphtheria, rubella, varicella, Haemophilus influenzae type b
(Hib), pertussis, tetanus, pneumococcal disease, meningococcal disease,
[and] hepatitis B AND HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV). 1. As used in this
section, unless the context requires otherwise:
a. The term "school" means and includes any public, private or paro-
chial child caring center, day nursery, day care agency, nursery school,
kindergarten, elementary, intermediate or secondary school.
b. The term "child" shall mean and include any person between the ages
of two months and eighteen years.

[Zippyjuan]

This was already covered earlier in the thread. YOU are the one wrong.

Text from the actual bill:

That is indeed the definition of a "child" in the bill. But read the part I posted as to what age of a child would be required to have the HPV vaccine. (sections in capital letters are proposed changes). Two month olds are not required to have that vaccine in the bill.

D. EVERY PERSON IN PARENTAL RELATION TO A CHILD IN THIS STATE ENTERING
OR HAVING ENTERED SEVENTH GRADE OR A COMPARABLE AGE LEVEL SPECIAL EDUCA-
TION PROGRAM WITH AN UNASSIGNED GRADE ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER FIRST, TWO
THOUSAND TWENTY-ONE, SHALL HAVE ADMINISTERED TO SUCH CHILD AN ADEQUATE
DOSE OR DOSES OF IMMUNIZING AGENTS AGAINST HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV) AS
RECOMMENDED BY THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES OF THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION, WHICH MEETS THE STANDARDS
APPROVED BY THE UNITED STATES PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE FOR SUCH BIOLOGICAL
PRODUCTS, AND WHICH IS APPROVED BY THE DEPARTMENT UNDER SUCH CONDITIONS
AS MAY BE SPECIFIED BY THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND HEALTH PLANNING COUNCIL.

The existing law covers many types of vaccines and some are required at different ages. For the HPV vaccine, that age would be the seventh grade.

[Brian4Liberty]

...
Do not get medical advice from the people who post on these forums, Brian. I spent 10 years fact-checking their posts, and one of the many things I learned is that their beliefs are not based on anything evidence-based. It's like a religion to them.

The only reason not to get the vaccine is because you don't want one. But their crazy conspiracies will be the reason the freedom to make that choice will soon disappear.

I had the flu vaccine this year. It turned me into a newt! I got better.

[Krugminator2]

New York is becoming a Vaccine Police State. They already banned unvaccinated children from public places this past summer.

So? I am for that.

Walter Block on forced vaccination. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/02/...-vaccinations/

"Ah but suppose the Typhoid Mary refuses to be vaccinated; I argue she must be compelled to do so. Also, it is possible that the vaccination will not work for all possible victims. Suppose they are too sick to be vaccinated. I think it is the responsibility of the disease carrier to stop infecting other people, not the responsibility of possible victims to protect themselves. "

"I agree with you. If the disease carrier quarantines herself to her own property, we may not force her to become inoculated. But this would have to be a very serious quarantine. Typhoid Mary would not only have to stay on her own property; she would have to insure that the disease cannot be carried by air to others. Practically speaking, she could make no such guarantee. So, I think that strict adherence to the NAP would justify compelling her to stop what is in effect her aggression."

[Created4]

That is indeed the definition of a "child" in the bill. But read the part I posted as to what age of a child would be required to have the HPV vaccine. (sections in capital letters are proposed changes). Two month olds are not required to have that vaccine in the bill.

You're just quoting the section which quotes the current CDC standards for HPV vaccination:

AS
RECOMMENDED BY THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES OF THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION

The CDC does not even include HPV as required for school attendance for ANYONE. But states can do whatever they want, and they have been trying to mandate the HPV vaccine for years, as it was even a hot topic of debate with Gov. Perry in Texas when he ran for president.

This NY bill is clear - it includes daycare and young children. And that is how lawmakers are interpreting, as I quoted above with the Assemblyman from Warsaw.

[Zippyjuan]

You're just quoting the section which quotes the current CDC standards for HPV vaccination:



The CDC does not even include HPV as required for school attendance for ANYONE. But states can do whatever they want, and they have been trying to mandate the HPV vaccine for years, as it was even a hot topic of debate with Gov. Perry in Texas when he ran for president.

This NY bill is clear - it includes daycare and young children. And that is how lawmakers are interpreting, as I quoted above with the Assemblyman from Warsaw.

No, it doesn't. You are mis-representing what it actually says. I have posted it twice now. You choose to ignore it to suit your own purposes. Facts are problems.

D. EVERY PERSON IN PARENTAL RELATION TO A CHILD IN THIS STATE ENTERING
OR HAVING ENTERED SEVENTH GRADE OR A COMPARABLE AGE LEVEL SPECIAL EDUCA-
TION PROGRAM WITH AN UNASSIGNED GRADE ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER FIRST, TWO
THOUSAND TWENTY-ONE, SHALL HAVE ADMINISTERED TO SUCH CHILD AN ADEQUATE
DOSE OR DOSES OF IMMUNIZING AGENTS AGAINST HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV)

Seventh grade is the age it is to be required for. Only parts with all caps are proposed changes.

[Created4]

You are mis-representing what it actually says.

No, I am quoting the actual language from the bill, as well as other lawmakers. You are the one clearly "mis-representing" with your strawman arguments trying to make people believe the bill is dead.

[Created4]

So? I am for that.

Good for you Komrad. What brings you to a libertarian forum?

[Brian4Liberty]

...
The existing law covers many types of vaccines and some are required at different ages. For the HPV vaccine, that age would be the seventh grade.

It’s a good thing that Big Mother dictates all of those specifics. There needs to be a law dictating how many times a week kids must eat their veggies, and which ones that have to eat.

[Zippyjuan]

No, I am quoting the actual language from the bill, as well as other lawmakers. You are the one clearly "mis-representing" with your strawman arguments trying to make people believe the bill is dead.

Read the bill. Find me the section which shows what age the HPV vaccine is required to be obtained by. Hint: It is the section I posted three times now.

The following is just a definition of terms, and not a required age:

b. The term "child" shall mean and include any person between the ages of two months and eighteen years.

Here is the section listing the ages for DPT:

Every person in parental relation to a child in this state born on
or after January first, nineteen hundred ninety-four and entering sixth
grade or a comparable age level special education program with an unas-
signed grade on or after September first, two thousand seven, shall have
administered to such child a booster immunization containing diphtheria
and tetanus toxoids, and an acellular pertussis vaccine, which meets the
standards approved by the United States public health service for such
biological products, and which is approved by the department under such
conditions as may be specified by the public health AND HEALTH PLANNING
council.

Or is that also required by two months?

[Created4]

Read the bill.

I have, and you are wrong about many things. The bill is here.

The first thing to notice is that bill is NOT stuck in committee as you wrongly claimed, but has already passed both the Senate and House and only awaits the Governor's signature.

Who the bill applies to is also clearly stated, as I have already posted here numerous times. It includes small children in day care for the future.

And here is what New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro has said:

New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro visited Warsaw on Thursday, Nov. 14 to discuss with the community upcoming bills mandating vaccines like the human papillomavirus and the flu.

“This is about the parental choice aspect that has been taken away from us, [this is] downright illegal,” DiPietro said.

His discussion was not about whether a child is vaccinated. Rather, he reiterated the fact that parents will no longer have a choice of whether their son or daughter is.

One of the possible new state laws set to take effect in January would require kids born on or after Jan. 1, 2009 who are entering public schools or daycares to receive the HPV vaccine.

This is being widely reported in the media, but somehow your interpretation is the right one? You didn't even know this bill had already been passed, and erroneously stated it died in committee....

[Zippyjuan]

I have, and you are wrong about many things. The bill is here.

The first thing to notice is that bill is NOT stuck in committee as you wrongly claimed, but has already passed both the Senate and House and only awaits the Governor's signature.

Who the bill applies to is also clearly stated, as I have already posted here numerous times. It includes small children in day care for the future.

And here is what New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro has said:

.

This is being widely reported in the media, but somehow your interpretation is the right one? You didn't even know this bill had already been passed, and erroneously stated it died in committee....

Your own link shows it still in committee- not "passed by both houses and awaiting signature by the governor". You should read your own links before posting.


Sent to the Health Committee in January where it still sits. Never made it to the calendar of bills to be considered on the floor.

Try reading the actual bill while you are there.

[Krugminator2]

Good for you Komrad. What brings you to a libertarian forum?

My position is the libertarian position. That's why I cited Walter Block.

Libertarian != anti-science dimwit

[Created4]

Your own link shows it still in committee- not "passed by both houses and awaiting signature by the governor".

I stand corrected. I was looking at the graphic and mis-read it.

But the legislature is not even in session, and the bill is certainly not dead. I do hope it dies in committee...

[Brian4Liberty]

So? I am for that.

Walter Block on forced vaccination. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/02/...-vaccinations/

"Ah but suppose the Typhoid Mary refuses to be vaccinated; I argue she must be compelled to do so. Also, it is possible that the vaccination will not work for all possible victims. Suppose they are too sick to be vaccinated. I think it is the responsibility of the disease carrier to stop infecting other people, not the responsibility of possible victims to protect themselves. "

"I agree with you. If the disease carrier quarantines herself to her own property, we may not force her to become inoculated. But this would have to be a very serious quarantine. Typhoid Mary would not only have to stay on her own property; she would have to insure that the disease cannot be carried by air to others. Practically speaking, she could make no such guarantee. So, I think that strict adherence to the NAP would justify compelling her to stop what is in effect her aggression."

Walter Block has his ass handed to him on that. And he had to backtrack substantially before he was done. There is a continuum of how contagious and deadly a disease may be, and also a consideration of how dangerous the proposed preventative action. Block choose the most contagious and deadly case he could think of. He could have also used Ebola. He essentially finally concluded that mandates would only apply to the most extreme end of the spectrum.

HPV is nowhere near that end of of the spectrum. I suspect Block would oppose mandatory HPV vaccination.

I would say that Block’s example borders on hyperbole beyond reality. What actions and laws would be justified in a zombie apocalypse? It’s ridiculous to even consider, and ignorant to propose such scenarios when they will bolster real world totalitarian mommy government.

And as he is primarily an economist, perhaps he should consider that a vaccination is a product, and he had proposed (in a limited and extreme situation) that government mandate purchase of that product.

Come back when Ebola outbreaks occur in the US. That is zombie apocalypse level. Drastic, emergency measures would become necessary. Until then, it’s support for Big Mommy government.

[Created4]

My position is the libertarian position.

Forcing unvaccinated children to get vaccines as a requirement to go to public places, including private property such retail stores and malls, is hardly a libertarian position.

As to your snide "anti-science" pejorative, I doubt that you are intelligent enough to have a serious discussion on the "science" behind the HPV vaccine.

[Ender]

My position is the libertarian position. That's why I cited Walter Block.

Libertarian != anti-science dimwit

I am not anti-science- LOVE quantum physics! AND have never been, or ever will be, vaccinated. And, I'm the healthiest person I know.

Also, science changes continually.

Pluto's not a planet-
Wait yes, it is-
Now it is not.

The brontosaurus in everyone's fav dinosaur.
Oops, sorry, there never were any brontosauruses.
Brontosauruses are back!!!

And, if you believe in the "Deep State", then you'd better look up Big Pharma- no different than the MIC. PLUS- .gov has no business in medicine.

[Krugminator2]

Forcing unvaccinated children to get vaccines as a requirement to go to public places, including private property such retail stores and malls, is hardly a libertarian position.

As to your snide "anti-science" pejorative, I doubt that you are intelligent enough to have a serious discussion on the "science" behind the HPV vaccine.

I know nothing about HPV or the vaccine. I am talking about vaccines in general. I listen to people who are experts. On one side you have Alex Jones, Jenny McCarthy and a maybe a fringe doctor or two. On the other side you have 99.8% of doctors and medical researchers. I tend to just listen to what experts say unless there is a compelling reason not to.

[Origanalist]

Good for you Komrad. What brings you to a libertarian forum?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Created4 again.

[Krugminator2]

HPV is nowhere near that end of of the spectrum. I suspect Block would oppose mandatory HPV vaccination.

Which is why the first sentence I wrote "I have no idea if this is needed or not but that isn't forced vaccination."

I am inclined to think HPV isn't necessary. But measles and polio? I think those meet the threshold. And the undercurrent of these threads is always some variation of vaccines are dangerous and a plot by pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with the government to give children autism.

[Krugminator2]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Created4 again.

Yes. Walter Block, Communist

[Origanalist]

I know nothing about HPV or the vaccine.

It's pretty tempting to put that in my sig line.

[Origanalist]

Yes. Walter Block, Communist

Walter Block, idiot.

[Origanalist]

I am not anti-science- LOVE quantum physics! AND have never been, or ever will be, vaccinated. And, I'm the healthiest person I know.

Also, science changes continually.

Pluto's not a planet-
Wait yes, it is-
Now it is not.

The brontosaurus in everyone's fav dinosaur.
Oops, sorry, there never were any brontosauruses.
Brontosauruses are back!!!

And, if you believe in the "Deep State", then you'd better look up Big Pharma- no different than the MIC. PLUS- .gov has no business in medicine.

You aren't healthy until you're Walter Block healthy.

[Origanalist]

[Krugminator2]

It's pretty tempting to put that in my sig line.

Why? It is what reasonable be do. Medicine is a specialized topic. There is no reason for me to have a strong knowledge of it.

I tend to listen to people like the American Medical Association and not messageboard posters. https://www.ama-assn.org/about/leade...-public-health

[Origanalist]

Why? It is what reasonable be do. Medicine is a specialized topic. There is no reason for me to have a strong knowledge of it.

I tend to listen to people like the American Medical Association and not messageboard posters. https://www.ama-assn.org/about/leade...-public-health

Well, there you go. Still not eating butter and reducing the fat content in your diet and killing your babies?

[Brian4Liberty]

Which is why the first sentence I wrote "I have no idea if this is needed or not but that isn't forced vaccination."

I am inclined to think HPV isn't necessary. But measles and polio? I think those meet the threshold. And the undercurrent of these threads is always some variation of vaccines are dangerous and a plot by pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with the government to give children autism.

You wrote that in a later post in response to another person. But that is similar to what Walter Block said: “I'm not enough of a biologist to know the specifics about these sorts of things, so I'll just make assumptions.”

[Created4]

On one side you have Alex Jones, Jenny McCarthy and a maybe a fringe doctor or two. On the other side you have 99.8% of doctors and medical researchers.

How about "thousands of doctors." And the ones who dare to come forward and challenge the controlled narrative on vaccines? "Fringe" is about the only thing you wrote that is correct. Doctors who think for themselves and do their own research rather than depend upon Pharma based propaganda are indeed "fringe."

But for now, let's just stick with the HPV vaccine:

Merck’s Former Doctor Predicts that Gardasil will Become the Greatest Medical Scandal of All Time

French Cancer Surgeon: Statistics Show HPV Gardasil Vaccine Linked to Increased Cervical Cancer Rates After Years of Decline Due to Pap Smears

Japanese Doctor Discovers Link Between HPV Vaccine and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Nearly Half of the Doctors in U.S. Not Routinely Recommending HPV Vaccine

Many U.S. Pediatricians and Family Doctors Not Recommending Gardasil HPV Vaccine

Danish Doctor Issues Warning about HPV Vaccine: “The Vaccine Should be Stopped Immediately!”

French Medical Professionals Ask: Are HPV Vaccines Necessary?

[Created4]

I tend to listen to people like the American Medical Association

Not surprised.

One of the myths propagated by the corporate-sponsored “mainstream” media is that medical doctors are united in their support of mandatory vaccination laws.

This is simply not true. The medical doctors and physician groups that have taken a stand against mandatory vaccination laws are almost never interviewed in the corporate media, and if they are referred to at all, they are called “quacks.”

The largest medical association in the world is the American Medical Association (AMA), which has strong ties to the pharmaceutical industry and probably represents more lobbyists in Washington D.C. than any other trade group.

And yet, less than 25% of the licensed medical doctors in the United States are members of the AMA, down from 75% in the late 1950s.

So it would be incorrect to believe that the AMA represents the views of most of the physicians in the U.S. They do not.

Full Article.

See Also:

American Medical Revolutions: How the AMA Took Over America

Intro:

About 170 years ago our ancestors forced the repeal of licensing laws which had created a monopoly over the practice of medicine for orthodox physicians. Ordinary people, farmers, artisans, tradesmen and others got together and forced politicians to act on their behalf. They were tired of bloodletting, and harsh medications like mercury compounds that ruined their teeth and weakened their bodies. They opted for kinder and gentler alternatives with lower casualty rates, particularly the newly introduced homeopathy. They were impressed that tiny doses of medicine were able to cure cholera much better than the massive doses used by orthodox physicians.

Libertarian you are not.