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Thread: Virginia ‘Second Amendment Sanctuary’ Movement Just Getting Started

  1. #1

    Virginia ‘Second Amendment Sanctuary’ Movement Just Getting Started

    The head of the group pushing Virginia counties to refuse to enforce unconstitutional gun laws, declaring themselves "Second Amendment sanctuaries," told the Washington Free Beacon he has seen an unprecedented groundswell of support that he expects to only grow.
    When Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) president Philip Van Cleave spoke with the Free Beacon on Tuesday afternoon, 15 of Virginia's 95 counties had passed sanctuary resolutions; five more joined that night.
    "I've never seen anything like this, and I've been doing this for over 20 years," he told the Free Beacon. "It's a sleeping giant that had been pretty much not paying attention to politics, and now they're awake, and now they're flooding these sanctuary county hearings. Flooding them."


    Sparked by Democrats' capture of the Virginia legislature three weeks ago, the sanctuary movement has already passed resolutions similar to VCDL's model in nearly a quarter of the state's counties. The movement could give newly elected Democrats from more moderate jurisdictions pause when considering new gun control bills—especially the confiscation plan supported by Governor Ralph Northam (D.). The sanctuary proposals could also set up a showdown between state and local officials if the former adopt new gun bans or a confiscation scheme.
    Van Cleave said that his group would typically garner up to a hundred people at the General Assembly for past gun bills, but that nearly a thousand showed up to support the sanctuary proposal in rural Bedford County.
    "It's sending a huge message to the General Assembly that a lot of the state does not want more gun control, certainly none of the crap that they're pushing that does nothing but affect law abiding citizens," he said. "It doesn't do anything for criminals."
    He said Democrats elected in counties that adopt the sanctuary resolution are "gonna be under some pressure," and may be swayed by the effort.
    "They're gonna go ‘whoa, hey, if I vote for that bill you won't have a Democrat delegate in this county for the next decade,'" Van Cleave said. "All we have to do is turn a few Democrats and these bills aren't going to go anywhere."
    The resolutions may do more than just send a message to the new Democratic majority, however. They could also have a direct impact on local law enforcement.
    "It's more than symbolic," Van Cleave said. "It can affect the employees of the county. So, you've got a county police force. If the employees are breaking this policy, they can be fired."
    Van Cleave said he expects a majority of the state's counties to adopt a sanctuary policy in the coming months, and his group plans to target Virginia's sheriffs and commonwealth attorneys as well.
    "It's part of a multiple prong approach," he said. "A lot of sheriffs, and even chiefs of police, are going to be watching what localities do. Some of the sheriffs have said, ‘if my locality does this then I'm going to go along with it.' Then, if we get commonwealth attorneys to say ‘I'm not prosecuting this stuff,' well, that closes the loop at least in the county."
    Still, Van Cleave said the sanctuary movement is not the only way to prevent the passage of new gun control laws.
    "It's important people understand, just because your county becomes a sanctuary, you're not done," he said. "This is the very beginning. This is the first volley in a war. We're making a hell of a volley, but the war will not be over even if every single county was a sanctuary."

    More at: https://freebeacon.com/issues/virgin...tting-started/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    Anyone living in Virginia, you better be at Lobby Day on MLK day, Jan 20. Don't call yourself pro-gun if you aren't.
    I am an AC, I don't vote, and I still go, so there's no excuse.
    I live in Prince William Co and if you are anywhere on the stretch of 95 going to Richmond you can score a ride with me.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  4. #3
    This is a gimmick, nothing more.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is a gimmick, nothing more.
    So was the Boston Tea Party.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    good, we need states to nullify ALL gun laws now and counties etc

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is a gimmick, nothing more.
    Still, Van Cleave said the sanctuary movement is not the only way to prevent the passage of new gun control laws.
    "It's important people understand, just because your county becomes a sanctuary, you're not done," he said. "This is the very beginning. This is the first volley in a war. We're making a hell of a volley, but the war will not be over even if every single county was a sanctuary."
    This is just a first step. To have people come together and have their voices be heard.

    Next step:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ional-Gun-Laws

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by teenlibert_1776 View Post
    good, we need states to nullify ALL gun laws now and counties etc
    Excellent first post.

    +Rep
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Well if its just getting started it better work entirely in our benefit.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  11. #9
    Who enforces the state laws in most counties, the more local county Sheriffs, if they disagree with state policy they can choose to not enforce that policy and if the local people support him and his ignoring that state policy there is nothing the state can really do. Now if somebody uses or threatens to use a gun then he can choose to enforce it.
    But is he going to confiscate guns from his family and friends if they do nothing wrong, nope.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is a gimmick, nothing more.
    Could be especially since Virginia is already looking at making it a crime to learn or teach martial arts.

    TYRANNY ALERT: Virginia to OUTLAW Krav Maga, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kickboxing, Tai Chi, Firearms Instruction and Self-Defense Training Under Proposed Law SB64
    By Mike Adams
    Natural News

    November 29, 2019

    The State of Virginia, now entirely run by truly insane Democrats who support infanticide and child murder, is proposing a new 2020 law known as SB64 (see link here) which will be taken up by the Democrat-run Senate beginning January 8, 2020.

    The law would instantly transform all martial arts instructors into criminal felons. This includes instructors who teach kickboxing, BJJ, Krav Maga, boxing and even Capoeira.

    It would also criminalize all firearms training classes, including concealed carry classes.

    It would even criminalize a father teaching his own son how to use a hunting rifle.

    Specifically, the law says that a person “is guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity” (a class 5 felony) if that person:

    “Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons…”

    The phrase “technique capable of causing injury or death to persons” covers all forms of martial arts and self-defense training, including Krav Maga, BJJ, boxing and other contact martial arts such as Tae Kwon Do or Tai Chi.

    Under the proposed law, all forms of self-defense training — including hand-to-hand martial arts training — would be considered “paramilitary activity,” even if the training consists of private classes involving just one instructor and one student. That’s because every form of martial arts training imparts skills which could be used to cause injury to other persons.

    In fact, according to the language of the law, just “one” person learning such arts is a felony crime, which means that watching a DVD on Krav Maga would be a felony crime.
    More here:
    https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-11-...tion-sb64.html
    There is no spoon.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by teenlibert_1776 View Post
    good, we need states to nullify ALL gun laws now and counties etc
    First off county and municipal governments almost never have the ability to overrule a state government. However state governments DO have the ability to overrule the federal government on most issues.

    But that is not what is happening here. These are nothing more than toothless resolutions which simply allow bad politicians to claim they are pro gun without having to actually do anything pro gun.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PursuePeace View Post
    This is just a first step. To have people come together and have their voices be heard.
    No, that's not how it works.


    But yes, if a Sheriff declares he will not enforce unconstitutional gun laws, then that actually does mean something!
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So was the Boston Tea Party.
    The difference being that the BTP actually caused pain to the enemy. These resolutions do nothing.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is a gimmick, nothing more.
    VCDL has repeatedly gotten county level measures shot down by having a hundred members show up at a hearing.
    The sanctuary county movement has a thousand members showing up for the hearings.

    I think of all people on this site, you are the one who most needs to study how VCDL operates. It's an organization that knows how to win and keep its principles while doing it.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    No, that's not how it works.
    What are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    But yes, if a Sheriff declares he will not enforce unconstitutional gun laws, then that actually does mean something!
    Well, no $#@!.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    VCDL has repeatedly gotten county level measures shot down by having a hundred members show up at a hearing.
    The sanctuary county movement has a thousand members showing up for the hearings.

    I think of all people on this site, you are the one who most needs to study how VCDL operates. It's an organization that knows how to win and keep its principles while doing it.
    VCDL is def. a good organization.



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  20. #17
    https://www.fauquiernow.com/fauquier...nctuaries-2019

    Local legislator encourages 2nd Amendment sanctuary
    By Del. Michael Webert
    Marshall

    I am happy to see so many counties declaring themselves Second Amendment sanctuaries, and I stand fully behind our right to bear arms that are guaranteed to us in the U.S. Constitution and the Virginia Constitution.

    These are rights that SHALL NOT be infringed upon.

    As most of you are aware, the Second Amendment sanctuary resolutions are not legally binding. However, it is vital to send a strong message to Richmond that we, law-abiding citizens, will not be treated like criminals because we possess certain types of firearms and firearm accessories.

    My colleagues and I are currently in the process of drafting a bill that will protect the counties that have passed Second Amendment sanctuary resolutions and prevent the state from withholding funding from those localities because of their Second Amendment sanctuary designation.

    As I have stated previously, I will not entertain emotional policy proposals that seek to undermine our Second Amendment rights and punish law-abiding citizens. I hope you will join me in this fight to protect our freedoms. Sic Semper Tyrannis.

    The writer represents 18th District — all of Rappahannock, and portions of Fauquier, Warren and Culpeper counties — in the Virginia House of Delegates. A Republican who will start his fifth, two-year term in January, he manages a cattle and crops farm.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    VCDL has repeatedly gotten county level measures shot down by having a hundred members show up at a hearing.
    The sanctuary county movement has a thousand members showing up for the hearings.
    Killing bad legislation is a great thing. But the "sanctuary county movement" is a gimmick that accomplishes nothing.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Killing bad legislation is a great thing. But the "sanctuary county movement" is a gimmick that accomplishes nothing.
    It sets up the next Lexington & Concord.

    Sooner or later one of these counties will refuse to allow the execution of a gun law and the left fears that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It sets up the next Lexington & Concord.
    No, it doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Sooner or later one of these counties will refuse to allow the execution of a gun law and the left fears that.
    No, it won't.


    You are obviously new to politics.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    No, it doesn't.

    No, it won't.


    You are obviously new to politics.
    You are obviously new to history.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Killing bad legislation is a great thing. But the "sanctuary county movement" is a gimmick that accomplishes nothing.
    Matt, Are you thinking perhaps people are being fooled into thinking they're now safe? You think people may think: "Well, my County passed a 2A sanctuary resolution so all is well. I have nothing to worry about." and then they'll just go back to sleep?

    If that's why you're saying it's just a gimmick then I DO get what you're saying. However, everyone (so far) seems to be pretty well informed about the fact that this is more or less a way to organize and start waking people up to what's coming down the pike. To get people active, and keep the pressure on. Everything has to have a starting point. This isn't the "solution". It's the START.

    Waking people up, having them rally together and pack these meetings and keeping people informed and encouraging people to stay active is NOT "accomplishing nothing."

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    No, that's not how it works.


    But yes, if a Sheriff declares he will not enforce unconstitutional gun laws, then that actually does mean something!
    Yes. It means the Sheriff will be sued if someone with a gun harms another individual.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Killing bad legislation is a great thing. But the "sanctuary county movement" is a gimmick that accomplishes nothing.
    The problem, I suspect, is that VCDL is a functioning grassroots organization that has concrete goals. I understand that directly conflicts with your "politics" of gaining and securing systemic power while never actually accomplishing anything and using the fear of additional losses as a primary tool.

    They are different games, and I think we should just agree to disagree.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PursuePeace View Post
    Matt, Are you thinking perhaps people are being fooled into thinking they're now safe? You think people may think: "Well, my County passed a 2A sanctuary resolution so all is well. I have nothing to worry about." and then they'll just go back to sleep?

    If that's why you're saying it's just a gimmick then I DO get what you're saying. However, everyone (so far) seems to be pretty well informed about the fact that this is more or less a way to organize and start waking people up to what's coming down the pike. To get people active, and keep the pressure on. Everything has to have a starting point. This isn't the "solution". It's the START.

    Waking people up, having them rally together and pack these meetings and keeping people informed and encouraging people to stay active is NOT "accomplishing nothing."
    My understanding is the primary point is that all the grabbers starting their terms in office immediately got smacked in the face with thousands of ARMED activists saying that they would really rather they didn't support the gun legislation.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PursuePeace View Post
    Matt, Are you thinking perhaps people are being fooled into thinking they're now safe? You think people may think: "Well, my County passed a 2A sanctuary resolution so all is well. I have nothing to worry about." and then they'll just go back to sleep?
    That's part of it, but the real part of it is that bad politicians get cover for pretending to do something when they are really doing nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by PursuePeace View Post
    everyone (so far) seems to be pretty well informed about the fact that this is more or less a way to organize and start waking people up to what's coming down the pike. To get people active, and keep the pressure on. Everything has to have a starting point. This isn't the "solution". It's the START.
    This is poor strategy. No one needs to be "woken up" that is idiocy. In politics all you have to do are mobilize people who already agree with you on a specific, it's a much lower hill to climb.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  31. #27

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    The problem, I suspect, is that VCDL is a functioning grassroots organization that has concrete goals. I understand that directly conflicts with your "politics" of gaining and securing systemic power while never actually accomplishing anything and using the fear of additional losses as a primary tool.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  32. #28
    Shenandoah. Good update.
    There were over 1,500 people that showed up.


    edited to add:
    "That's the power of this movement, no-one is leading this, there's no lawmaker that's leading this, WE'RE leading this. This is 100% has started and the momentum has been maintained by you and by me, CITIZENS... average people who are fed up with what's going on and are scared for the future of the commonwealth."
    Last edited by PursuePeace; 12-01-2019 at 12:38 PM.

  33. #29
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It sets up the next Lexington & Concord.

    Sooner or later one of these counties will refuse to allow the execution of a gun law and the left fears that.
    They can't just refuse to allow laws to be enforced. That would be highly illegal and inappropriate.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 12-05-2019 at 06:57 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

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