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Thread: Trump Is First to Use PATRIOT Act to Detain a Man Forever

  1. #1

    Trump Is First to Use PATRIOT Act to Detain a Man Forever

    Unlimited detention without any charges. He has not committed any violent crimes (or been accused of any) and served his sentence. He should be freed.

    Never in 18 years has the government used Section 412 of the PATRIOT Act, which permits indefinite detention of resident aliens on national-security grounds. Until now.

    For the 18-year lifespan of the war on terrorism, an obscure provision of the PATRIOT Act permitting the indefinite detention of U.S. non-citizens has gone unused. But to keep a Palestinian man behind bars even after he finished serving his sentence, the Trump administration has fired this bureaucratic Chekhov’s gun.

    Adham Amin Hassoun, now in his late 50s, has spent nearly the entire war on terrorism in cages. First picked up on an immigration violation in June 2002, he ended up standing trial alongside once-suspected “dirty bomber” Jose Padilla. But Hassoun was never accused of any act or plot of violence. His crime was cutting checks to extremist-tied Muslim charities operating in places like Kosovo and Chechnya that Congress outlawed after the 9/11 attacks. Hassoun wrote all but one of those checks before 9/11.

    Sentenced to 15 years in federal prison, Hassoun should have been a free man in 2017. Instead, he found himself in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which locked him up in western New York. It was there that Hassoun’s case turned extraordinary.

    ICE wanted to deport Hassoun, but his statelessness as a Palestinian got in the way. No country—not the Lebanon of his birth, not the Israel that occupies the West Bank and Gaza—was willing to take him. Aided by attorneys at the University of Buffalo Law School, Hassoun in January won what should have been his freedom, on the grounds that his deportation was unlikely.

    The Trump administration instead declared him a threat to national security. It did so at first using an also-obscure immigration regulation designed to sidestep a 2001 Supreme Court ruling imposing a six-month detention limit. And it was aided by a testimonial, under seal, of Hassoun’s alleged misdeeds behind bars as related by what his attorneys describe as jailhouse snitches who provided second- or third-hand accounts. But as the government fought what had become a habeas corpus case for Hassoun’s release, the Department of Homeland Security invoked, for the first time in U.S. government history, section 412 of the PATRIOT Act.

    Section 412 gives the government broad powers to detain non-citizens on American soil whom it can’t deport but deems, on “reasonable grounds,” to be engaged in “activity that endangers the national security of the United States.” It makes that determination for a six-month period that it can renew without limit. To little fanfare, the former acting secretary of Homeland Security, Kevin McAleenan, informed Hassoun on Aug. 9 that “you will therefore remain in the custody of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) pending your removal from the United States or reconsideration of this decision.”

    Attorneys for Hassoun, who were in federal court on Friday to argue for his freedom, are stunned at the invocation of Section 412. They noted that the PATRIOT Act provision is written to “take [a non-citizen] into custody,” not to retroactively designate someone already in detention as a threat.

    “If the government were to prevail in its claim of extraordinary and unprecedented executive power, the government would be free to lock up non-citizens indefinitely based solely on executive say-so, even after they completed serving their sentences,” said Jonathan Hafetz, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union.

    ICE, citing the ongoing litigation, declined comment. The Department of Homeland Security did not respond to requests for comment.

    McAleen claimed in his August invocation of the PATRIOT Act that he did so because Hassoun “assumed a leadership role in a criminal conspiracy to recruit fighters and provide material support to terrorist groups, and because you pose a continuing threat to recruit, plan, participate in, and provide material support for terrorist activity.”

    Yet the federal judge in his criminal case, Marcia G. Cooke, painted a far different picture of Hassoun during his 2008 sentencing. There was “no evidence that these defendants personally maimed, killed or kidnapped anyone in the United States or elsewhere,” and the government could find “no identifiable victims” as the result of their actions, she said.

    Cooke, a George W. Bush appointee, specifically rejected the life sentence the Justice Department sought for Hassoun, noting that years of government surveillance on him never resulted in his criminal arrest. “This fact does not support the government’s argument that Mr. Hassoun poses such a danger to the community that he needs to be imprisoned for the rest of his life,” Cooke ruled.

    The administration’s portrayal of Hassoun contrasts with the man Nicole Hallett and Jonathan Manes, professors at the University of Buffalo Law School, meet nearly every week at the ICE detention center in Batavia.

    They described someone who operates as a paternal figure to other Muslim detainees. He aids their court cases by poring over the law books in the library. Locked up with about 30 other immigration detainees, his red jumpsuit marking him as a security threat, Hassoun wakes early to help prepare breakfast in the facility kitchens. Even after what has become a 17-year ordeal in various cells, he keeps up with American pop culture, and is a fan of the USA Network legal drama Suits.

    Using Section 412 of the PATRIOT Act to prolong Hassoun’s confinement was so unlikely that a March New York Times story referenced it only as a tactic by government attorneys to bolster the legitimacy of the immigration regulation. Five months later, it was a reality.

    To Hallett, the shock of Hassoun’s detention even after he served his criminal sentence, matched with the unprecedented the means the administration is using to keep him locked up, testifies to the degradation of the rule of law in the post-9/11 era.

    “This is Guantanamo on domestic soil,” Hallett said. “The government is trying to detain him as long as it wants, and that prison happens to be in Batavia, New York, not at Guantanamo Bay.”

    Hassoun is said to be mentally sharp. His physical health is a different question. Twice in Batavia he has been hospitalized, his attorneys said, after hunger strikes to protest his confinement exacerbated his diabetes and a pre-existing heart condition.

    Then comes the loneliness and the sense of injustice. His wife moved to Lebanon with their children over a decade ago. Last year, Hassoun told Hallett and Manes about his youngest son’s acceptance to college; the young man was 2 years old when his father was arrested. Hassoun believes that his prosecution was the result of his 2002 decision, while in immigration custody, not to turn federal informant.

    Unlike many immigrant detainees, Hassoun isn’t contesting deportation. His attorneys said he would leave the country if one would take him—another eerie parallel to Guantanamo. “Adham just wants to live peacefully someplace,” Manes said. A sister in Florida, a U.S. citizen, could assume custody for him under supervised release.

    “He feels quite a bit of angst over [the fact that] he had served his sentence and feels like he should be released,” Hallett said. “He’s worried about dying in prison.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #2
    Slippery-slope, camel's nose in the tent, etc aside, no other country wants to take this guy.

    Why don't you offer to let him bunk with you, Zippy?
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Slippery-slope, camel's nose in the tent, etc aside, no other country wants to take this guy.

    Why don't you offer to let him bunk with you, Zippy?
    You really think this is $#@!ing OK? Anyone can be next!
    There is no spoon.

  5. #4
    This will be a trend that we'll be seeing for the foreseeable future.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    You really think this is $#@!ing OK? Anyone can be next!

    The prevailing attitude around here really seems to have become that totalitarianism is just fine as long as it's pointed in the "right" direction. After all, it's the only way to preserve what's left of our "liberty culture." Just ask SS.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  7. #6
    If he's such a great fellow, why doesn't Lebanon or Palestine accept him?
    Last edited by spudea; 11-29-2019 at 01:37 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  8. #7
    The Patriot Act is evil.

    But this guy should have never been allowed in this country in the first place.

    There should be little to no immigration from countries with cultures that are not compatible with ours.
    Last edited by sparebulb; 11-29-2019 at 02:04 PM.
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  9. #8
    Is there a link to the story? I would like to see where it came from.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Is there a link to the story? I would like to see where it came from.
    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-first-p...093123381.html
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  12. #10
    “If the government were to prevail in its claim of extraordinary and unprecedented executive power, the government would be free to lock up non-citizens indefinitely based solely on executive say-so, even after they completed serving their sentences,” said Jonathan Hafetz, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union.
    And? If they aren't American why does it matter.

    Besides, anyone with a name like "Adham Amin Hassoun" is almost certainly a terrorrist anyway
    Last edited by TheTexan; 11-29-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Yeah because no one was being indefinitely held without trial in gitmo before Trump became president.
    1) They weren't being held under the PATRIOT act.

    2) This guy isn't being held without trial. He's being held after trial.

    3) The GITMO excuse is that they are military detainees in military detention for military trial for an undeclared war. This is a civil/civilian action.



    As with everything else in the United States, the government will trial-run their newfound powers against some type of person who is easily dismissed as 'not deserving' of rights by half of Americans. It will work.
    Last edited by TheCount; 11-29-2019 at 03:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    if we don't count the 14,000 he sent instead of declaring war on Iran he had reduced the deployed troops by about 7,555.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Yeah because no one was being indefinitely held without trial in gitmo before Trump became president.
    This is in NY- not Cuba. Makes it a bit more dangerous for anyone in the uS.

    And, yes, gitmo is definitely evil.
    There is no spoon.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    The Patriot Act is evil.

    But this guy should have never been allowed in this country in the first place.

    There should be little to no immigration from countries with cultures that are not compatible with ours.
    Yeah, they said the same things about the Irish. Look how they've destroyed our culture.
    There is no spoon.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    1) They weren't being held under the PATRIOT act.

    2) This guy isn't being held without trial. He's being held after trial.

    3) The GITMO excuse is that they are military detainees in military detention for military trial for an undeclared war. This is a civil/civilian action.



    As with everything else in the United States, the government will trial-run their newfound powers against some type of person who is easily dismissed as 'not deserving' of rights by half of Americans. It will work.
    His crime was cutting checks to extremist-tied Muslim charities operating in places like Kosovo and Chechnya that Congress outlawed after the 9/11 attacks. Hassoun wrote all but one of those checks before 9/11.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    And, yes, gitmo is definitely evil.
    And who is keeping gitmo open?

    Who wants to keep gitmo open?

    Who promised to add more detainees to gitmo?


    It's a mystery!


    Trump Signs Order To Keep Prison At Guantanamo Bay Open

    President Trump on Tuesday signed an executive order to keep open the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, after pledging during the campaign to "load it up with some bad dudes."

    Signed moments before he stepped to the podium to present his first State of the Union Address, Trump said in the speech: "In the past, we have foolishly released hundreds and hundreds of dangerous terrorists only to meet them again on the battlefield, including the ISIS leader, al-Baghdadi, who we captured, who we had, who we released," he said, referring to Islamic State group leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who was released from Camp Bucca in Iraq in 2004.

    "I am asking Congress to ensure that, in the fight against ISIS and al-Qaeda, we continue to have all necessary power to detain terrorists, wherever we chase them down, wherever we find them. And in many cases, for them, it will now be Guantanamo Bay," the president added to applause.

    Trump's order revokes one issued by President Obama in his first days in office that called for the facility to close, which had been a key Obama campaign promise.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...anamo-bay-open
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    if we don't count the 14,000 he sent instead of declaring war on Iran he had reduced the deployed troops by about 7,555.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    1) They weren't being held under the PATRIOT act.

    2) This guy isn't being held without trial. He's being held after trial.

    3) The GITMO excuse is that they are military detainees in military detention for military trial for an undeclared war. This is a civil/civilian action.



    As with everything else in the United States, the government will trial-run their newfound powers against some type of person who is easily dismissed as 'not deserving' of rights by half of Americans. It will work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    This is in NY- not Cuba. Makes it a bit more dangerous for anyone in the uS.

    And, yes, gitmo is definitely evil.
    Gitmo isn't Cuba. They don't have jurisdiction in Gitmo. Cuba couldnt let the people there go free.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    His crime was cutting checks to extremist-tied Muslim charities operating in places like Kosovo and Chechnya that Congress outlawed after the 9/11 attacks. Hassoun wrote all but one of those checks before 9/11.
    Okay? Does that entitle the president to keep him in prison indefinitely?

    I mean, why even have laws then? Let's just let the executive decide on a case-by-case basis what sort of punishment every person deserves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    if we don't count the 14,000 he sent instead of declaring war on Iran he had reduced the deployed troops by about 7,555.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    And who is keeping gitmo open?

    Who wants to keep gitmo open?

    Who promised to add more detainees to gitmo?


    It's a mystery!


    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...anamo-bay-open
    This is still not a first. The whole thing people hate about the patriot act was it circumvents the bill of rights which is unconstitutional. This guy isnt even American. This title is click bait fake news.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Okay? Does that entitle the president to keep him in prison indefinitely?

    I mean, why even have laws then? Let's just let the executive decide on a case-by-case basis what sort of punishment every person deserves.
    He is in prison because he gave money to extremist Muslim charities who will launder it to terrorist cells.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Unlimited detention without any charges. He has not committed any violent crimes (or been accused of any) and served his sentence. He should be freed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    You really think this is $#@!ing OK? Anyone can be next!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    1) They weren't being held under the PATRIOT act.

    2) This guy isn't being held without trial. He's being held after trial.

    3) The GITMO excuse is that they are military detainees in military detention for military trial for an undeclared war. This is a civil/civilian action.

    ....
    So , if I have this right, this man is not a US Citizen, what would the three of you have us do with
    this man?

  25. #22
    It looks like he is free to go back to Palestine or Lebenon, but they are too smart to take him back. Heck, it looks like neither Zippy, Ender, nor theCount will take Sparebulb up on his offer and let the poor man sleep on their couch.
    Last edited by RJB; 11-29-2019 at 03:50 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    It looks like he is free to go back to Palestine or Lebenon, but they are too smart to take him back. Heck, it looks like neither Zippy, Ender, nor theCount will take Sparebulb up on his offer and let the poor man sleep on their couch.
    Yeah, yeah, change the subject.

    The man was charged with a "crime" that he mostly did before it was a "crime"- rather dubious- considering who we now think are "terrorist" groups. He paid for it & now is not allowed to be free but is under indefinite detention for no reason.

    This can now happen to ANYONE. You don't care because he was an immigrant, but this opens the door to some very scary possibilities for the average American.

    Virginia is already looking at making it a crime to learn or teach martial arts- think about that.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/11/...osed-law-sb64/

    And, BTW- Lebanon & Palestine do not exactly have say in how they operate. You know who really rules them.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Gitmo isn't Cuba. They don't have jurisdiction in Gitmo. Cuba couldnt let the people there go free.
    Gitmo is at Cuba. NY is a little closer & thus even more scary for this to be happening.
    There is no spoon.



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  29. #25

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Yeah, yeah, change the subject.

    The man was charged with a "crime" that he mostly did before it was a "crime"- rather dubious- considering who we now think are "terrorist" groups. He paid for it & now is not allowed to be free but is under indefinite detention for no reason.

    This can now happen to ANYONE. You don't care because he was an immigrant, but this opens the door to some very scary possibilities for the average American.

    Virginia is already looking at making it a crime to learn or teach martial arts- think about that.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/11/...osed-law-sb64/

    And, BTW- Lebanon & Palestine do not exactly have say in how they operate. You know who really rules them.
    Carry a sign outside the facility that says, "Hassoun can sleep on my couch."

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    It looks like he is free to go back to Palestine or Lebenon, but they are too smart to take him back. Heck, it looks like neither Zippy, Ender, nor theCount will take Sparebulb up on his offer and let the poor man sleep on their couch.
    I didn't know that statelessness was a license to invade America.
    Last I heard not being wanted by your own country wasn't in our immigration law as a reason you can come here and stay here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Yeah, they said the same things about the Irish. Look how they've destroyed our culture.
    The Irish are free to go back.

    In fact, they are encouraged to obtain Irish citizenship and return by their government.
    Last edited by sparebulb; 11-29-2019 at 04:32 PM.
    "Every post is about Hillary and pedophilia. I love them both soooo much!!!!!!!" Zippyjuan

  33. #29
    We could solve this by forcibly or covertly dumping him in Lebanon.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Yeah, they said the same things about the Irish. Look how they've destroyed our culture.
    Their culture was far more compatible with ours and it still contributed to the loss of liberty here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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