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Thread: Trump Is First to Use PATRIOT Act to Detain a Man Forever

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They can and should release him anywhere BUT America.
    I'm glad that we agree. Though that does contradict the previous thing that you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I believe the rest of us have a right to be protected from enemies that mean to harm or enslave us.
    As you clearly believe that this man intends you harm, and you also believe that the government has unlimited power to jail him forever on the basis of your belief, it doesn't follow that you actually think that he should be released at all. Those two concepts are incongruent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'll take that to mean you want him released in America so he can try to kill and conquer us since you refused to even acknowledge the other options.
    Take it however you please.


    You are asking what allows government to release him.

    I am asking what allows government to continue to jail him.


    It's as simple as that.
    Last edited by TheCount; 11-30-2019 at 01:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Release him, BUT NOT HERE.
    Why should they release someone who attacked others with a knife yesterday?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I'm glad that we agree, then. Though that does contradict the first thing that you said:



    As you clearly believe that this man intends you harm, and you also believe that the government has unlimited power to jail him forever on the basis of your belief, it doesn't follow that you actually think that he should be released at all. Those two concepts are incongruent.
    There is no contradiction, if he is expelled he can't harm us.
    He must be held until he is expelled.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Take it however you please.


    You are asking what allows government to release him.

    I am asking what allows government to continue to jail him.


    It's as simple as that.
    That's a nice attempt to deflect but everyone can see what your goal is.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is no contradiction, if he is expelled he can't harm us.
    He must be held until he is expelled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's a nice attempt to deflect but everyone can see what your goal is.
    What attempt to deflect? You just confirmed exactly what I said: you think that government can and should jail this man forever on the basis of your belief that he might harm you.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You are asking what allows government to release him.

    I am asking what allows government to continue to jail him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Why should they release someone who attacked others with a knife yesterday?
    I was referring back tor the guy in the OP.

    They did just release the guy in the UK before the attack.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I was referring back tor the guy in the OP.

    They did just release the guy in the UK before the attack.
    Oh...

    So the US shouldn't release the guy that they have in jail because some other guy stabbed people with a knife?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    What attempt to deflect? You just confirmed exactly what I said: you think that government can and should jail this man forever on the basis of your belief that he might harm you.
    I never said forever.
    And I never asked what allows the government to release him.


    Get help.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oh...

    So the US shouldn't release the guy that they have in jail because some other guy stabbed people with a knife?
    They should not release a terrorist here, that kind of policy will lead to similar results.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I never said forever.
    Yeah, you did. Right here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because he has no right to be released in America and nowhere else will take him.
    He must never be released here, and he cannot be released anywhere else. And so here we are.


    This takes us, once again, back to the actual central theme of your belief: the default state of (this) man is to be jailed by the state until such time as there is proper cause for him to be free.

    I, on the other hand, believe that the default state of (this) man is to be free until such time as there is proper cause for him to be jailed.


    Parentheses included because my strong suspicion is that this belief extends to all people and not just this one guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They should not release a terrorist here, that kind of policy will lead to similar results.
    Which terrorist are they releasing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Yeah, you did. Right here:


    He must never be released here, and he cannot be released anywhere else. And so here we are.
    There are lots of other places he can be released but you keep ignoring that because your goal is to let him invade America and create a precedent that allows others to invade as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    This takes us, once again, back to the actual central theme of your belief: the default state of (this) man is to be jailed by the state until such time as there is proper cause for him to be free.

    I, on the other hand, believe that the default state of (this) man is to be free until such time as there is proper cause for him to be jailed.


    Parentheses included because my strong suspicion is that this belief extends to all people and not just this one guy.
    It is the proper thing to lock up invaders until they are expelled but you are on the side of the invaders.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #72
    This case is an excellent example of why we shouldn't let so many people in and shouldn't let any in at all from certain cultures.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #73
    Life is like a SNL skit: a guy is sitting in jail for donating money to terrorists and while sitting there, he continously screams "death to America". No country on Earth wants him, except our bleeding hearts. Here comes our dopey US guard unlocking the cell, giving him an EBT card, cell phone and a section 8 apartment, all the while still screaming "death to America". What a world.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    Where
    He can sit in an airport like Snowden. They have lots of cameras and police there.
    Where is John Galt?


    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Two hours? Really?

    Unlike some others, posting on here is neither my job nor my life. Get over it.




    Not imprison him forever.
    lol , out of four of you , no response, that's a statistical conspiracy.


    So seriously , that's your answer, and I assume you answer for the four of you;



    ''Don't imprison him...''



    Brilliant solution!!!

    But, yea, I didn't ask what not to do , I asked what you four would have them
    do with him..
    Last edited by Stratovarious; 11-30-2019 at 07:19 AM.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by RPtotheWH View Post
    Life is like a SNL skit: a guy is sitting in jail for donating money to terrorists and while sitting there, he continously screams "death to America". No country on Earth wants him, except our bleeding hearts. Here comes our dopey US guard unlocking the cell, giving him an EBT card, cell phone and a section 8 apartment, all the while still screaming "death to America". What a world.
    Yep, and we also need to give him a basic income card, and a nice late model suv.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This case is an excellent example of why we shouldn't let so many people in and shouldn't let any in at all from certain cultures.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Swordsmyth again.


    Liberals love enriching our culture with people that hate us.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by RPtotheWH View Post
    Life is like a SNL skit: a guy is sitting in jail for donating money to terrorists and while sitting there, he continously screams "death to America". No country on Earth wants him, except our bleeding hearts. Here comes our dopey US guard unlocking the cell, giving him an EBT card, cell phone and a section 8 apartment, all the while still screaming "death to America". What a world.
    Sums up the count, ender, etc

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Yeah, you did. Right here:


    He must never be released here, and he cannot be released anywhere else. And so here we are.


    This takes us, once again, back to the actual central theme of your belief: the default state of (this) man is to be jailed by the state until such time as there is proper cause for him to be free.

    I, on the other hand, believe that the default state of (this) man is to be free until such time as there is proper cause for him to be jailed.


    Parentheses included because my strong suspicion is that this belief extends to all people and not just this one guy.
    Guy just got done funding our enemies and let's release a NON US citizen in the US because no one will take him in. You are such a joke. The LP will never be legitimate party. LP is controlled opposition and not so intelligent whatsoever people. Which one are you?

    I wish I could live in fantasy land. Maybe if angelatc hooks me up with them vaccines I can achieve a presence there.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    He can sit in an airport like Snowden. They have lots of cameras and police there.
    What country? Most countries would have this guy killed. Instead we should shower him with flowers and praises. Luxury hotel, five star cuisine, brand new SUV, a couple women etc



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  25. #81
    Hassoun: I came here illegally and funded terrorists.

    theCount:. You're a great American and are free to run through our county.

    Hassoun:. I also served...

    theCount:. Oh, Army, Navy, Marines?

    Hassoun:. No. San Quentin. Death to America.

    theCount: Even better. Here's an EBT card.

    Hassoun: Cool. Can I sleep on your couch, bud?

    theCount: Oh no no no. Go to RJB's neighborhood and bother him.

    RJB: Leave me alone.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Hassoun: I came here illegally and funded terrorists.

    theCount:. You're a great American and are free to run through our county.

    Hassoun:. I also served...

    theCount:. Oh, Army, Navy, Marines?

    Hassoun:. No. San Quentin. Death to America.

    theCount: Even better. Here's an EBT card.

    Hassoun: Cool. Can I sleep on your couch, bud?

    theCount: Oh no no no. Go to RJB's neighborhood and bother him.

    RJB: Leave me alone.
    Lol

  27. #83
    To paraphrase Nixon, "we're all neocons now."
    Amash>Trump

    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    To paraphrase Nixon, "we're all neocons now."
    Wait... your solution to the problem was....


    Ahhhhhh just call people neocons... got ya...
    Anywayyyyy back to the real world

    Solution: keep terrorist who aren't citizens of this country in this country. Quran and Mises have soooo much in common

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    Wait... your solution to the problem was....


    Ahhhhhh just call people neocons... got ya...
    Anywayyyyy back to the real world

    Solution: keep terrorist who aren't citizens of this country in this country. Quran and Mises have soooo much in common
    I'll humor you: can you quote where anyone here said keep terrorists in the country?
    Amash>Trump

    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Yeah, yeah, change the subject.

    The man was charged with a "crime" that he mostly did before it was a "crime"- rather dubious- considering who we now think are "terrorist" groups. He paid for it & now is not allowed to be free but is under indefinite detention for no reason.

    This can now happen to ANYONE. You don't care because he was an immigrant, but this opens the door to some very scary possibilities for the average American.

    Virginia is already looking at making it a crime to learn or teach martial arts- think about that.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/11/...osed-law-sb64/

    And, BTW- Lebanon & Palestine do not exactly have say in how they operate. You know who really rules them.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It's the first use of the PATRIOT act authority for indefinite detention. Previous presidents used other, equally bull$#@!, authorities.




    No. He was in prison for that reason. Then he completed his sentence. Why is he in prison now?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Fascinating. Is that a right that people have to have now? An affirmative right to not be in jail?

    We should come up with a name for that right. Something catchy.




    I'd do this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    A bad thing indeed, but if he served his time he should be freed.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    I'll humor you: can you quote where anyone here said keep terrorists in the country?
    A few for ya bud...

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    A few for ya bud...
    Lol every one of those says people shouldn't be indefinitely detained after a sentence is completed; not one of those was about actual terrorism nor about whether he should be in the us. Quick question: where is he now?
    Amash>Trump

    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

  32. #88
    Every single one of those people implied he should be free in the UNITED STATES or like ender said NEW YORK. They couldn't come out and say it straight because they would be exposed. Again where should he be freed at?????? No one is answering that question. It's all silent and crickets.

    WHERE SHOULD HE BE FREED AT?



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    Every single one of those people implied he should be free in the UNITED STATES or like ender said NEW YORK. They couldn't come out and say it straight because they would be exposed. Again where should he be freed at?????? No one is answering that question. It's all silent and crickets.

    WHERE SHOULD HE BE FREED AT?
    23. Mr. Hassoun arrived in the United States on September 10, 1989, as a
    nonimmigrant visitor. He changed his status to that of an F-1 nonimmigrant student on June 5,
    1990, when he began his studies at Nova Southeastern University.

    24. After completing his degree in computer science and after receiving work
    authorization, Mr. Hassoun worked in the IT field as a computer programmer and systems analyst.
    During this time, his mother sponsored him for a green card, and filed an immigrant visa petition
    on his behalf. This petition was granted in 1990, but his adjustment of status (ďgreen cardĒ)
    application remained pending for years. While waiting on his green card, Mr. Hassoun began a
    family and had three sons, all of whom are U.S. citizens.


    25. On June 12, 2002, Mr. Hassoun was detained by immigration authorities and
    Case 1:19-cv-00370-EAW Document 13 Filed 05/14/19 Page 5 of 22
    6
    charged with overstaying his visa, despite the fact that the government had approved his motherís
    petition sponsoring him for permanent resident in 1990, and his application for a green card
    remained pending. The government detained Mr. Hassoun at the Krome Service Processing Center
    in Miami, Florida throughout his immigration proceedings.
    He was also asked to be an alphabet informant- and when he refused......

    The whole legal mess is here:
    https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...on_5.14.19.pdf
    There is no spoon.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are lots of other places he can be released but you keep ignoring that because your goal is to let him invade America and create a precedent that allows others to invade as well.
    Your "other places" are an intentional distraction from the topic and diversion from the very real belief that you hold as to the government's power to imprison this man.


    This government has no intention to, nor will they in actuality, release this man in any of those "other places." What will happen, as the government has clearly said that it intends to do, is that he will be jailed forever pending someplace for him to go. You echo the government's sentiment repeatedly throughout the thread and endorse their supposed "right" to hold him so indefinitely.
    Last edited by TheCount; 11-30-2019 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

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