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I have a cool story for ya, bruh...Originally Posted by juleswin
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2009/01/...va/groovy-che/
“Groovy Name, Groovy Man, Groovy Politics!” ~ Benicio del Toro on Che Guevara
"Del Toro was fascinated with Che Guevara from the first time he heard his name mentioned in the Rolling Stones song Indian Girl," reads the introduction to an interview with Benicio del Toro last month in Britain’s The Guardian." Of course he found himself fascinated by Ernesto Che Guevara — he loved the Stones, and Emotional Rescue was the first album he’d bought. “I hear of this guy and he’s got a cool name. Che Guevara!” Del Toro as good as swoons when he says it. "Groovy name, groovy man, groovy politics!"
“So I went to a library and I was looking at books, and I came across a picture by René Burri of Che, smiling, in fatigues, I thought, ‘Dammit, this guy is cool-looking!’ “
Well, there you have it. What’s next? Probably a YouTube featuring a weeping, wailing Benicio del Toro titled: "Leave Che Alone!"
Del Toro, who glorifies Che in a current movie, compared him (favorably) to Jesus Christ in an interview with Spain’s El Pais, and to whom he dedicated his Cannes Film Festival "Best Actor" award, speaks for millions of Che groupies. “Che Guevara has given rise to a cult of almost religious hero worship among radical intellectuals and students across much of the Western world,” proclaimed Time magazine in May 1968. "With his hippie hair and wispy revolutionary beard, Che is the perfect postmodern conduit to the nonconformist, seditious ’60s.”
“1968 actually began in 1967 with the murder of Che,” recounts Christopher Hitchens. “His death meant a lot to me, and countless like me, at the time. He was a role model.”
In a famous speech in 1961 Che Guevara denounced the very “spirit of rebellion” as “reprehensible.” “Youth must refrain from ungrateful questioning of governmental mandates” commanded Guevara. “Instead they must dedicate themselves to study, work and military service.”
And woe to those youths “who stayed up late at might and thus reported to work (government forced-labor) tardily.” Youth, wrote Guevara, ” should learn to think and act as a mass.” “Those who chose their own path” (as in growing long hair and listening to Yankee-Imperialist Rock & Roll) were denounced as worthless “lumpen” and “delinquents.” In his famous speech Che Guevara even vowed, “to make individualism disappear from Cuba! It is criminal to think of individuals!”
Tens of thousands of Cuban youths learned that Che Guevara’s admonitions were more than idle bombast. In Che Guevara the hundreds of Soviet KGB and East German STASI “consultants” who flooded Cuba in the early 60’s, found an extremely eager acolyte. By the mid 60’s the crime of a “rocker” lifestyle or effeminate behavior got thousands of youths yanked off Cuba’s streets and parks by secret police and dumped in prison camps with “Work Will Make Men Out of You” in bold letters above the gate and with machine gunners posted on the watchtowers. The initials for these camps were UMAP, not GULAG, but the conditions were quite similar.
Today the world’s largest image of the man Benicio del Toro honors on screen and in multiple interviews, adorns Cuba’s headquarters for it’s KGB-trained secret police, a gang of Communist sadists who jailed and tortured at a rate higher than Stalin’s own KGB and GRU.
"Rates," hardly tell the story however. Upon arriving in Havana on January of 1959 after an utterly bogus guerrilla war, Che Guevara immediately recognized the moat around Havana’s La Cabana fortress as a handy-dandy execution pit. At Babi-Yar Hitler’s SS had to dig one. Here Che Guevara had one ready made.
In 1961 a 20-year-old boy named Tony Chao Flores took his place at the execution stake, but he hobbled to it on crutches. He’d taken 17 bullets from their Czech machine guns when the Castroites captured him. On the way to the execution stake at the old Spanish fort turned to a prison and execution ground by Che Guevara, Tony was forced to hobble down some cobblestone stairs. Tony tumbled down the long row of steps and finally lay on the cobblestones at the bottom, writhing and grimacing. One of Tony’s bullet-riddled legs had been amputated at the hospital, the other was gangrened and covered in pus. The Castroite guards cackled as they moved in to gag Tony with their tape.
Tony watched them approach while balling his good hand into a fist. Then as the first Red reached him BASH!! right across his eyes.
“I’ll never understand how Tony survived that beating,” says eyewitness former political prisoner Hiram Gonzalez who watched from his window in la Cabana prison. The crippled Tony was almost killed in the kicking, punching, gun-bashing melee but finally his captors stood off, panting and rubbing their scrapes and bruises. They’d managed to tape the battered boys mouth, but Tony pushed the guards away before they bound his hands. Their commander nodded, motioning for them to back off.
Now Tony started crawling towards the splintered and blood-spattered execution stake about 50 yards away, pushing and dragging himself with his hands as his stump of a leg left a trail of blood on the grass. As he neared the stake he’d stop and start pounding himself in the chest. His executioners seemed perplexed. The crippled boy was trying to say something. But his message was muzzled by the gag del Toro’s idol made obligatory for his thousands of execution victims.
Tony’s blazing eyes and grimace said enough. But no one could understand the boy’s mumblings. Tony kept pushing himself, shutting his eyes tightly from the agony of the effort. His executioners shuffled nervously, raised their rifles, lowered them. They looked towards their commander who shrugged. Finally Tony reached up to his face and ripped off the tape Benicio del Toro’s pin-up boy required for his condemned.
The 20 year-old freedom-fighter’s voice boomed out. “Shoot me RIGHT HERE!” roared Tony at his gaping executioners. His voice thundered and his head bobbed with the effort. “Right in the CHEST!” Tony yelled. “Like a MAN!” Tony stopped and ripped open his shirt, pounding his chest and grimacing as his gallant executioners gaped and shuffled. “Right HERE!” he pounded.
On his last day alive, Tony had received a letter in jail from his mother. “My dear son,” she counseled. “How often I’d warned you not to get involved in these things. But I knew my pleas were vain. You always demanded your freedom, Tony, even as a little boy. So I knew you’d never stand for communism. Well, Castro and Che finally caught you. Son, I love you with all my heart. My life is now shattered and will never be the same, but the only thing left now, Tony . . . is to die like a man.”
“FUEGO!!” Che’s lackey yelled the command and the bullets shattered Tony’s crippled body, just as he’d reached the stake, lifted himself and stared resolutely at his murderers. But Che’s firing squads usually murdered a hero who was standing. The legless Tony presented an awkward target. So some of the volley went wild and missed the youngster. Time for the coup de grce.
Normally it’s one .45 slug that shatters the skull. Eyewitnesses say Tony required . . . POW!-POW! . . . POW! — three. Seems the executioner’s hands were shaking pretty badly. But they finally managed. The man Time magazine’s hails among the “heroes and icons of the Century” had another notch in his gun. Another enemy dispatched — bound and gagged as usual.
Castro and Che were in their mid-30s when they murdered Tony. According to the authoritative Black Book of Communism their firing squads riddled another 14,000 bound and gagged freedom-fighters. Many (perhaps most) of their murder victims were boys in their late-teens and early 20s. Some were even younger.
Compare Tony’s death to Guevara’s capture: “Don’t shoot!” whimpered the arch-assassin to his captors. “I’m Che! I’m worth more to you alive than dead!”
Then ask yourselves: whose face belongs on T-shirts worn by youth who fancy themselves, rebellious, freedom-loving and brave? Who deserves a Hollywood movie?
No, it is not, and I already pointed that out in another thread, numerous timesAnyone remember this pic of Che supposedly executing innocent girls?
Can anyone tell with a yes or no answer if it was Che or not? +rep for the first brave soul to answer.
“It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan
I see having a Che avatar as equivalent to having a swastika as an avatar.
Truthfully, the whole Scandavia is socialist so therefore socialism can totally work arguments are getting tired. Every thread he/she posts in mentions how socialism only fails because of the mean old US. (As an aside the World Bank lists three Scandavian countries in the top 10 most business friendly countries so they are not even close to Venezuela in any way which has ranked near the bottom.)
If you are a socialist in 2019, you are just on the other side of the same coin as a Nazi.
I am a man of my word
+rep, I never seen this pic debunked by anyone. I never really believed the lies about him but until yesterday, I did not actually have proof that it wasn't him. Kudos to you for being brave enough to reply. We don't usually see eye to eye on so many important issues, I have a lot of respect for you.
Wait....
I'll donate this avatar.
Thread CLOSED.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
I do enjoy creative writing as much as the next guy, if you can believe it, I actually dabbled in it as a teenager. I would write very low quality short stories about kung fu that but even with my silly stories, the logistics of the story had to make sense or else it was no good to me. Brave heart was a good believable story and the logistics made sense but this guy Tony after being bound, leg amputated, most likely suffering from sepsis from a gangrenous leg wound then savagely beaten by a gang of Chevistas, he was still able to untie his bound hands, take off the tape gagging his mouth to yell at his executioners.
Truth stranger than fiction not withstanding, I cannot believe this fantastic tale. I wouldn't even believe it if you told me Trump ordered the execution say in Syria and I say it as a person who does not like Trump or what he is doing in Syria.
Last edited by juleswin; 11-20-2019 at 07:54 PM.
Now show him the real one.
EDIT: Danke did
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I see....
Just because I don't believe socialism is poison doesn't make me a socialist.
Most Scandinavian countries have more socialist type programs than Venezuela.
Now back to people making a stand of whether they believe Che was a mass murdering man. You don't have to give me the names of the actual victims.
Behind Che Guevara's mask, the cold executioner
Matthew Campbell. Times Online, September 16, 2007.
A ROMANTIC hero to legions of fans the world over, Ernesto "Che" Guevara, the poster boy of Marxist revolution, has come under assault as a cold-hearted monster four decades after his death in the Bolivian jungle.
A revisionist biography has highlighted Guevara's involvement in countless executions of "traitors" and counter-revolutionary "worms", offering a fresh glimpse of the dark side of the celebrated guerrilla fighter who helped Fidel Castro to seize power in Cuba.
"Attacking an almost legendary figure is not an easy task," said Jacobo Machover, author of The Hidden Face of Che. "He has so many defenders. They have forged the cult of an untouchable hero."
The Argentine-born Guevara has become ever more fashionable, his prerevolutionary adventures as a medical student dramatised to great acclaim in the film The Motorcycle Diaries and his bearded visage an icon of chic on T-shirts and even bikinis.
Machover, a Cuban exiled in France since 1963, blames the hero worship on French intellectuals who flocked to Havana in the 1960s and fell under the charm of the only "comandante" who could speak their language.
They turned a blind eye to anything that did not fit in with their idealised image of Guevara. A prolific diarist, Guevara nevertheless wrote vividly of his role as an executioner. In one passage he described the execution of Eutimio Guerra, a peasant and army guide.
"I fired a .32calibre bullet into the right hemisphere of his brain which came out through his left temple," was Guevara's clinical description of the killing. "He moaned for a few moments, then died."
This was the first of many "traitors" to be subjected to what Guevara called "acts of justice".
There was seldom any trial. "I carried out a very summary inquiry and then the peasant Aristidio was executed," he wrote about another killing. "It is not possible to tolerate even the suspicion of treason."
Guevara found particularly "interesting" the case of one of his victims, a man who, just before being executed, penned a letter to his mother in which he acknowledged "the justice of the punishment that was being dealt out to him" and asked her "to be faithful to the revolution".
Such reflections sent a chill down the spine of the author. "The guilty, or those presumed to be so, were expected to recognise the benefits of their death sentence," he said.
Guevara also carried out mock executions on prisoners. Relieved to discover that he had not been shot, one of the victims, wrote Guevara in his diary, "gave [me] a big, sonorous kiss, as if he had found himself in front of his father".
The cigar-chomping Guevara went on to become head of the Cuban central bank where he famously signed banknotes with his nickname Che. But his first job after the rebels marched in triumph into Havana in 1959 was running a "purifying commission" and supervising executions at Havana's La Cabana prison.
"He would climb on top of a wall . . . and lie on his back smoking a Havana cigar while watching the executions," the author quotes Dariel Alarcon Ramirez, one of Guevara's former comrades in arms, as saying.
It was intended as a gesture of moral support for the men in the firing squad, says Machover. "For these men who had never seen Che before, it was something really important. It gave them courage."
In a six-month period, Guevara implemented Castro's orders with zeal, putting 180 prisoners in front of the firing squad after summary trials, according to Machover. Jose Vilasuso, an exiled lawyer, recalled Guevara instructing his "court" in the prison: "Don't drag out the process. This is a revolution. Don't use bourgeois legal methods, the proof is secondary. We must act through conviction. We're dealing with a bunch of criminals and assassins."
Machover blames French intellectuals such as Régis Debray, who became an acolyte of Guevara and professor of philosophy at Havana's university in the 1960s, for the canonisation of this far from saintly figure.
"The legend forged around Che is first and foremost a French creation that became international with time," says Machover. Jean-Paul Sartre, the existentialist author who visited Havana with Simone de Beauvoir in 1960, also played a role, describing Guevara as "the most complete man of his epoch".
Today the cult of Che is thriving. He was recently voted "Argentina's greatest historical and political figure" and ceremonies will be held all over the Andes and the Caribbean to mark the 40th anniversary of his death on October 9. He was executed in Bolivia where he was fomenting rebellion against the government.
Gustavo Villoldo, a former CIA operative who said he helped to bury Guevara, plans to auction a scrapbook in which he kept a strand of his hair, photographs of the body and a map of the hunt for the guerrilla leader.
"I'm doing it for history's sake," he said. Not only that, perhaps: he expects to fetch up to £4m. Viva la revolucion.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
You haven't seen my evidence, maybe it's all wrong and i will end up being the one with the egg on my face and then be forced to change my avatar. But something tells me that even you know that I got an ace in the hole. Keep bumping the thread, you are a great American.
Originally Posted by juleswin
..I have finally decided to ...consider removing my Che avatar ...
..this thread is a set up, ...
I am a man of my word
... .
I see....
Top 10 places for ease of doing business https://www.doingbusiness.org/en/rankings
New Zealand Singapore Hong Kong SAR, China Denmark Korea, Rep. United States Georgia United Kingdom Norway Sweden
Venezuela 188 (out of 190)
Economic Freedom index
Venezuela 179 out of 180
No amount of facts from sources across the spectrum will convince you despite every shred of evidence pointing out that Venezuela is one of the most socialistic countries Earth.
It isn't that we disagree on this because there is nothing to disagree on. You are objectively wrong. You are trolling.
Govt regulation is not socialism, I am not quite sure what to call it but socialist programs like universal healthcare, govt run retirement programs, govt ownership of industries(e.g. oil companies), free post secondary education is socialism. If the argument that regulation is bad then that would be different but your argument is that socialism not regulation is poison pill. So you have convinced me that most scandinavian countries are high in socialism programs but low in regulation and that is why they work.
So can we at least agree that socialism is not the killer of a system that you people claim it is?
He was from Crown Hill area in Indy where Dillinger was buried . They are all anti imperialists there .
Do something Danke
The story of the men described in 2:25 plus
Essentially this is the story of a bunch of men who fled Cuba for Miami because they were disillusioned by the revolution, came back 3 month later with explosives and were caught plotting to execute Castro. I am shocked that Castro killed such a peaceful, non violent man.MIAMI, April 20, 1961 (UPI)-Seven persons, including one identified as a U.S. citizen, were executed by firing squads at dawn in Havana today, Radio Havana announced. It raised the number of executions for the past three days to 24. Radio Havana, in a broadcast monitored here, identified the American citizen as Rafael Diaz Bencom. Among those executed was Humberto Sori Marin, ex-agriculture minister in Premier Fidel Castro's cabinet.
It appeared Castro had rounded up all possible leaders of an uprising and was terrorizing Cubans with new executions to keep the populace quiet. Thousands were reported jailed. Among them was Martin Houseman, the second UPI correspondent to be arrested in Havana.
Despite Castro's iron grip, there was gunfire today in Havana. The Cuban radio said a girl was killed and another wounded by gunfire from a car near the intelligence service headquarters.
Eight persons were executed Tuesday and nine yesterday.
Nearly 700 have died before Castro's firing squads since he seized power in January 1959.
In the previous 58 years of Cuban history, only three persons had been legally executed.
He said he was disillusioned with feuding among anti-Castro factions and believed he could do more in Cuba.Sori Marin fled in a small boat to Miami, but returned about three months later to Cuba.
The broadcast said the men were executed for plotting to assassinate Castro.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1961/04...1205884581438/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humberto_Sor%C3%AD_MarinOn the night of 13 March 1961, Sorí Marín, Rafael Diaz Hanscom, Manuel Puig Miyar, Nemesio Rodriguez Navarrete and Gaspar Domingo Trueba Varona landed from a boat at Fundora Point, Celimar, near Havana, with arms and explosives. On 18 March, the insurgents, with Rogelio González Corzo and other members of the Front for Revolutionary Unity (FRU), met in Siboney. Cuban state security (G-2) officers raided the meeting, and arrested all 11 people there, during which Sorí Marín was shot and wounded.[9][10][11][12]
According to wikipedia(a bit redundant since I already linked the paragraph above to wikipedia), also I cannot find any source that supports the claim that Che himself execute any of the captured anti rebel plotters on. Castro sentenced then to death and nobody really knows who carried out the execution, but Che haters are quick to pin the killing on Che. Btw, not even the Washington post, Time (all whom wrote negative articles about Castro) can corroborate this claim that Che was the executioner. But the guy in the video says it, so it must be true. No emoji ever create can capture how far back by eyes are rolling right now
Last edited by juleswin; 11-20-2019 at 10:24 PM. Reason: fixed for acptulsa
You could open in on the anniversary of the death of che so we can kill him again ea yr.
Do something Danke
You can kill a man but not even the smear campaign from prominent members of the imperialist US *cough* Marco Rubio *cough* can kill his anti imperialist ideas. Sadly for the uninitiated, ideas like that do not die.
No we can't agree so the first sentence is wrong. The degree to which the government runs the economy is the degree to which an economy is socialist. Pure socialism is government controlling the means of production.
Social welfare programs may be an aspect of socialism but they are the least important part. FA Hayek supported government insurance programs and supported universal health care. FA Hayek was not a socialist. Milton Friedman supported UBI so clearly he didn't think those programs were huge detriment to capitalism. On the other hand, government intervention in business is the most important part and in comparison the only thing that matters.
I don't think Marco was at The Bay of Pigs or in Bolivia in '67
Do something Danke
Do you know what is also a detriment to economic growth? trade embargo and sanctions. I wager to say that it is more destructive than govt regulation. I would wager to bet that if say Sweden was sanctioned and isolated the same way Venezuelan was sanctioned, their economy would be in the toilet today.
Meh. That's a rather weak defense. OBL was also a brave and pretty successful anti-imperialist(both anti-Soviet and anti-US), but we don't consider him a "good guy". If Che's thing was *just* anti-imperialism, I wouldn't mind him so much.
You can call evil good and good evil but it will never change the truth.
In spite of all the evil the western empire has committed it is still communism that has committed more, Che was evil and his death was good and deserved.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I have always believed that OBL is a controlled opposition just like Baghdadi. I always find it weird how AL Qaeda just happens to be fighting US enemies in Syrian and Yemen. In Syrian, they fight Hezbollah, SAA and Iran and in Yemen they fight the Houthis. The whole OBL being anti imperialist is not something I believe.
So, do you buy into the whole Che being a mass murderer?
Last week I read a book about Selassie then told my bumbaclot parents I was switching religions.You're from Nigeria...
And you don't know who Hallie Selassie was...
"It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate
I'm not familiar with the Cuban socialists' crimes; they would have been trivial compared to those of the communists in Russia, China, Germany, etc, simply because Cuba was small and it's state was fairly inept. For Che to be an unsuitable avatar for someone sympathetic to libertarianism, however, it should be sufficient that he was a socialist. No person who identifies himself with Lenin, Stalin, and/or Mao (I don't know to which version of anti-civilization lunacy Che adhered) should be cheered, even if his personal contribution to this great movement was marginal. Marx never killed a soul, or led an army which killed a soul, and yet he wouldn't be a good avatar, would he?
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