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Thread: Trump is Sunk

  1. #1

    Exclamation Trump is Sunk

    You watch, they are going to nail him on a USC 1001 process "crime".

    Remember, to be convicted of a USC 1001 offense, which is a felony, you do not have to prove criminal intent, you do not have to prove forethought, you do not have to prove obstruction.

    If you sit down in front of a cop, fed, official, congress, bureaucrat...anybody granted investigative authority by government and you make a factually false statement, for any reason or no reason whatsoever, you are, prima facie, guilty.

    Armed Government Worker: "Good morning suspect".
    Mundane: "Good morning."
    AGW: "What is the weather doing outside?"
    Mundane: "It is raining." (it is, in fact, not, it is sunny)
    AGW: "It is sunny. We now will be moving forward on a USC 1001 prosecution."

    House Democrats Probing Whether Trump Made False Statement to Robert Mueller

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...obert-mueller/

    JOSHUA CAPLAN 18 Nov 2019

    House Democrats have launched an investigation into whether President Donald Trump made false statements in his written answers to special counsel Robert Mueller as part of his probe into now-debunked allegations of criminal conspiracy between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia, according to CNN.

    “Did the President lie? Was the President not truthful in his responses to the Mueller investigation?” House Judiciary Committee general counsel Douglas Letter asked before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit on why lawmakers require access to grand jury material obtained by Mueller.

    On Monday, a federal appeals panel is voicing skepticism over the Justice Department’s claim it can defy Congress’ request for secret material from the Mueller report.

    Two of the three judges who heard arguments at a hearing seemed prepared to order at least some of the material sought by the House for its impeachment inquiry to be turned over.

    The House Judiciary panel is seeking grand jury testimony and other details redacted from the public version of Mueller’s investigation.

    Last month, a judge ordered the Justice Department to turn over the redacted material, but the Trump administration appealed.

    In the court filings, the Justice Department argued that once the grand jury material is released to the House Judiciary Committee, there is no guarantee that it will remain secret “and the confidentiality of the grand jury information will be lost for all time.”

    “In order to reach the decision it did, the Court resolved difficult disputes between co-equal branches of government, including the question of what suffices to initiate the impeachment of a President,” wrote Department of Justice attornies. “The public interest lies in maintaining the status quo until an appellate court has had time to review and resolve these substantial legal question.”



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  3. #2
    Good.

    I hope they drag him off in chains, perp walk him in front of the White House, publicly humiliate the man globally.

    Maybe that will finally be enough to:

    A - Push the people into taking decisive action to settle this $#@! show once and for all.

    B - Break the infuriating tendency of law and order types, conservatives and run of the mill GOPers, to be copsuckers.

    NEVER TALK TO COPS.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Good.

    I hope they drag him off in chains, perp walk him in front of the White House, publicly humiliate the man globally.

    Maybe that will finally be enough to:

    A - Push the people into taking decisive action to settle this $#@! show once and for all.

    B - Break the infuriating tendency of law and order types, conservatives and run of the mill GOPers, to be copsuckers.

    NEVER TALK TO COPS.
    This is exactly why this will not be the outcome of this circus.

    If you want to know how this will come out, look at Clinton's impeachment. If you want to rob a bank, bring a circus to town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  5. #4
    Yea I have been feeling like Trump is going to get a nuke up his you-know-what....

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Good.

    I hope they drag him off in chains, perp walk him in front of the White House, publicly humiliate the man globally.

    Maybe that will finally be enough to:

    A - Push the people into taking decisive action to settle this $#@! show once and for all.

    B - Break the infuriating tendency of law and order types, conservatives and run of the mill GOPers, to be copsuckers.

    NEVER TALK TO COPS.
    Couldn't happen to a nicer copsucker.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  7. #6
    Come on AF, what is this 2016??

    You really think THIS is what is going to do Trump in?

    This is like the 4,438th misdeed that the left has accused Trump of doing. You think this is the one that will do him in?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You watch, they are going to nail him on a USC 1001 process "crime".

    Remember, to be convicted of a USC 1001 offense, which is a felony, you do not have to prove criminal intent, you do not have to prove forethought, you do not have to prove obstruction.

    If you sit down in front of a cop, fed, official, congress, bureaucrat...anybody granted investigative authority by government and you make a factually false statement, for any reason or no reason whatsoever, you are, prima facie, guilty.

    Armed Government Worker: "Good morning suspect".
    Mundane: "Good morning."
    AGW: "What is the weather doing outside?"
    Mundane: "It is raining." (it is, in fact, not, it is sunny)
    AGW: "It is sunny. We now will be moving forward on a USC 1001 prosecution."

    House Democrats Probing Whether Trump Made False Statement to Robert Mueller

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...obert-mueller/

    JOSHUA CAPLAN 18 Nov 2019

    House Democrats have launched an investigation into whether President Donald Trump made false statements in his written answers to special counsel Robert Mueller as part of his probe into now-debunked allegations of criminal conspiracy between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia, according to CNN.

    “Did the President lie? Was the President not truthful in his responses to the Mueller investigation?” House Judiciary Committee general counsel Douglas Letter asked before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit on why lawmakers require access to grand jury material obtained by Mueller.

    On Monday, a federal appeals panel is voicing skepticism over the Justice Department’s claim it can defy Congress’ request for secret material from the Mueller report.

    Two of the three judges who heard arguments at a hearing seemed prepared to order at least some of the material sought by the House for its impeachment inquiry to be turned over.

    The House Judiciary panel is seeking grand jury testimony and other details redacted from the public version of Mueller’s investigation.

    Last month, a judge ordered the Justice Department to turn over the redacted material, but the Trump administration appealed.

    In the court filings, the Justice Department argued that once the grand jury material is released to the House Judiciary Committee, there is no guarantee that it will remain secret “and the confidentiality of the grand jury information will be lost for all time.”

    “In order to reach the decision it did, the Court resolved difficult disputes between co-equal branches of government, including the question of what suffices to initiate the impeachment of a President,” wrote Department of Justice attornies. “The public interest lies in maintaining the status quo until an appellate court has had time to review and resolve these substantial legal question.”


    Do you honestly think that if Mueller had evidence that Trump lied to him on paper he would have sat on that? Because I don't.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  9. #8
    They have been saying they have this evidence and that evidence since before the election. Somehow they are never able to produce it. They just move on the next smear and the sheep don't even remember that the last one was never proved or was proven false. All they remember is that Trump has been constantly embroiled in scandal so he must be a bad guy.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Come on AF, what is this 2016??

    You really think THIS is what is going to do Trump in?

    This is like the 4,438th misdeed that the left has accused Trump of doing. You think this is the one that will do him in?
    You're right, there probably isn't a single thing that Trump didn't represent 100% accurately. He's always been known for his factual attention to detail.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You watch, they are going to nail him on a USC 1001 process "crime".

    Remember, to be convicted of a USC 1001 offense, which is a felony, you do not have to prove criminal intent, you do not have to prove forethought, you do not have to prove obstruction.

    If you sit down in front of a cop, fed, official, congress, bureaucrat...anybody granted investigative authority by government and you make a factually false statement, for any reason or no reason whatsoever, you are, prima facie, guilty.
    Not quite. The statute requires that the false statekment be made knowingly and willfully, so a specific intent is required. In addition, the false statement must be material. It's hard to imagine that the state of the weather during the interrogation would ever be material to the matter under investigation.

    (a)Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
    (1)falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
    (2)makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
    (3)makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
    shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Not quite. The statute requires that the false statekment be made knowingly and willfully, so a specific intent is required. In addition, the false statement must be material. It's hard to imagine that the state of the weather during the interrogation would ever be material to the matter under investigation.
    The weather could be material in certain contexts, especially if Russia was involved somehow.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  14. #12
    It'll never happen.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Never gonna happen. If they had any evidence whatsoever they should have shown it a long time ago.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Not quite. The statute requires that the false statekment be made knowingly and willfully, so a specific intent is required. In addition, the false statement must be material. It's hard to imagine that the state of the weather during the interrogation would ever be material to the matter under investigation.
    Even constitutionally explicit Fifth Amendment rights do not exonerate affirmative false statements.[12] In the 1998 case Brogan v. United States, the Supreme Court rejected the "exculpatory no" doctrine that had previously been followed by seven of the courts of appeal, which had held that "the mere denial of wrongdoing" did not fall within the scope of § 1001.[13][2] The Brogan court stated:

    Our legal system provides methods for challenging the Government's right to ask questions—lying is not one of them.[13]


    Both "knowingly and willingly" and "material" are very subjective.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post


    Do you honestly think that if Mueller had evidence that Trump lied to him on paper he would have sat on that? Because I don't.
    I have been thinking for a long time muellar has never had anything , ever that was not fabricated by some govt employee .
    Do something Danke

  18. #16
    I don't even think Dems are going to take a formal vote on impeachment, the votes won't be there after the hearings are done, they have nothing on him.

    But there will always be the "appearance" of having something, which of course they do very well since the MSM will follow.
    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It'll never happen.
    See,,
    Now I want to see it,, just to watch you melt down..

    I could care less for the circus or the Clown.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    I just don't see it happening.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Good.

    I hope they drag him off in chains, perp walk him in front of the White House, publicly humiliate the man globally.
    Not going to happen.

    Way before it comes close to anything like this, MAGites woud rite, his top donors would reach out to fellow liberal Dem Donors/Soros etc to reign in Dems led circus.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    This is exactly why this will not be the outcome of this circus.

    If you want to know how this will come out, look at Clinton's impeachment. If you want to rob a bank, bring a circus to town.
    I think its going to go the same way as Clinton. "Some big nonsense misunderstanding put into legal mumble jumble and spin around so fast everyone's head spins right off. Then, Trump wins a second term because everyone is so confused and sick of the $#@! show all they want is what they've know for the last four years.
    Where is John Galt?



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