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Thread: Trump pardons Army officers, restores Navy SEAL's rank, in war crimes cases

  1. #1

    Trump pardons Army officers, restores Navy SEAL's rank, in war crimes cases

    U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday pardoned two Army officers accused of war crimes in Afghanistan and restored the rank of a Navy SEAL platoon commander who was demoted for actions in Iraq, a move critics have said would undermine military justice and send a message that battlefield atrocities will be tolerated.

    The White House said in a statement Trump granted full pardons to First Lieutenant Clint Lorance and Major Mathew Golsteyn, and ordered that the rank Edward Gallagher held before he was convicted in a military trial this year be restored.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1XP2G4





    1LT Lorance ordered his platoon to open fire on a passing motorcycle.

    MAJ Golsteyn admitted on live TV that he murdered an Iraqi.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken



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  3. #2
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.

    Navy illegally spied on accused SEAL and his defense team

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Lorance’s case dates back to a 2012 deployment to Afghanistan, when he ordered his soldiers to fire on three unarmed men riding a motorcycle near their patrol. Members of his platoon testified against him at a court-martial trial, describing Lorance as over-zealous and the Afghans as posing no real threat.

    He was sentenced to 19 years in prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. In recent years, Lorance and his family had waged a long campaign against his sentence, and found a receptive ear in Trump.

    Golsteyn’s case had not yet been decided. He was scheduled for a December trial on charges he murdered an alleged Taliban bomb maker, and burned his remains in a trash pit during a 2010 deployment with 3rd Special Forces Group. Trump’s action effectively puts an end to that legal case before any verdicts were rendered.
    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/p...-crimes-cases/
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  5. #4
    That's the narrative, not the details.

    I'd like to hear the defense's version.

    The prosecution can't be trusted.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Today, President Donald J. Trump signed an Executive Grant of Clemency (Full Pardon) for Army First Lieutenant Clint Lorance, an Executive Grant of Clemency (Full Pardon) for Army Major Mathew Golsteyn, and an order directing the promotion of Special Warfare Operator First Class Edward R. Gallagher to the grade of E-7, the rank he held before he was tried and found not guilty of nearly all of the charges against him.
    In early July 2012, only days after Lieutenant Lorance had taken command of his platoon in one of the most dangerous battle zones in Afghanistan, a motorcycle with three men approached him and his men with unusual speed. Under difficult circumstances and prioritizing the lives of American troops, Lorance ordered his men to engage, and two of the three men were killed. Following these events, Lorance was convicted of several charges. He has served more than six years of a 19-year sentence he received. Many Americans have sought executive clemency for Lorance, including 124,000 people who have signed a petition to the White House, as well as several members of Congress, including Senators Bill Cassidy and John Kennedy, and Representatives Steve Scalise, Garret Graves, Duncan Hunter, Paul Gosar, Adam Kinzinger, Scott Perry, Brian Babin, Neal Dunn, Michael Waltz, Louie Gohmert, Daniel Webster, Steve King, Ralph Norman, Mark Meadows, Clay Higgins, Ralph Abraham, Mike Johnson, and Jody Hice.
    Major Mathew Golsteyn, an officer of the United States Army and graduate of West Point, is currently set to stand trial for an allegedly unlawful killing in connection with one of the largest battles of the Afghanistan War. As our forces cleared the Taliban from the city of Marjah, an Improvised Explosive Device detonated, killing two Marines. The terrorist bombmaker, as identified by an Afghan informant, who had killed our troops, was detained and questioned. Golsteyn was compelled to release him, however, due in part to deficiencies within the fledgling Afghan detention system. Golsteyn has said he later shot the terrorist because he was certain that the terrorist’s bombmaking activities would continue to threaten American troops and their Afghan partners, including Afghan civilians who had helped identify him. After nearly a decade-long inquiry and multiple investigations, a swift resolution to the case of Major Golsteyn is in the interests of justice. Clemency for Major Golsteyn has broad support, including from Representatives Louie Gohmert, Duncan Hunter, Mike Johnson, Ralph Abraham, and Clay Higgins, American author and Marine combat veteran Bing West, and Army combat veteran Pete Hegseth.
    Before the prosecution of Special Warfare Operator First Class Edward Gallagher, he had been selected for promotion to Senior Chief, awarded a Bronze Star with a “V” for valor, and assigned to an important position in the Navy as an instructor. Though ultimately acquitted on all of the most serious charges, he was stripped of these honors as he awaited his trial and its outcome. Given his service to our Nation, a promotion back to the rank and pay grade of Chief Petty Officer is justified.
    The United States military justice system helps ensure good order and discipline for our millions of uniformed military members and holds to account those who violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Due in part to this system, we have the most disciplined, most effective, most respected, and most feared fighting force in the world.
    The President, as Commander-in-Chief, is ultimately responsible for ensuring that the law is enforced and when appropriate, that mercy is granted. For more than two hundred years, presidents have used their authority to offer second chances to deserving individuals, including those in uniform who have served our country. These actions are in keeping with this long history. As the President has stated, “when our soldiers have to fight for our country, I want to give them the confidence to fight.”


    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...-secretary-97/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Friday was a historic day for those who support and defend our rights and who volunteer to go in harm's way on our behalf - Our Nation's Warriors.
    Each of the hundreds of thousands of people associated with United American Patriots, regardless of political leaning, is elated President Trump righted the wrongs faced by 1LT Clint Lorance, MAJ Matt Golsteyn, and Chief Eddie Gallagher.
    In each of these cases and many others, there is clear evidence of unlawful command influence, prosecutor misconduct, and improper investigative actions.
    Those media pundits, politicians, and even military general officers who sound off in disagreement, spouting moral platitudes about how President Trump's actions send a "bad signal," will undermine the military justice system, or negatively impact good order and discipline within the Armed Forces, are simply highlighting their own level of ignorance regarding each of these cases.
    Our service members take an oath that states: “I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
    Among other things, our Constitution specifically serves to protect the rights of every individual American citizen.


    Whether it be free speech, protection from unwarranted searches and seizures, due process, impartial and fair trials, or excessive punishment, the Constitution is the defining document that separates American citizens from the rest of the world. It’s the founding accord that has produced the greatest country on the face of the Earth. Many have served and some have died protecting it and the associated lives, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of hundreds of millions both at home and abroad.
    The implicit presumption made by our service members, while performing heroic, selfless, and, at times, near-miraculous acts of valor to uphold their oath to our Constitution, is that they themselves will be afforded its benefits.
    Unfortunately, all too often, that is not the case.
    We at United American Patriots review far too many cases where Warrior's Rights have been violated and honorable servicemembers face wrongful accusations of "war crimes" which lead to unjust convictions.
    Whether motivated by politics, self-preservation, or personal promotion, confessions by the accused are coerced; enemy combatants lawfully killed by our Warriors are labeled as "unarmed civilians;" forensic experts with exonerating forensic evidence are dismissed and silenced; witnesses are intimidated and manipulated; attorney-client privilege is violated; exculpatory evidence is withheld from juries; known enemy combatants are used testifying against our Heroes - some enemy combatants have even been flown in to America, given an opportunity to testify, and then taken to Sea World prior to being flown back home and set free in Afghanistan (yes this really happened).



    What is worse, senior military leaders make false and inappropriate statements publicly and to Members of Congress to protect their careers and the perception of the institutions they represent as opposed to upholding the Constitution and defending the individual rights of our Warriors.
    Putting on display American values, such as due process, the presumption of innocence, and the rights of the accused should be the concern of our military commanders and their civilian leaders, not incarcerating our Warriors to prove political correctness or appease false allegations by foreign leaders.

    The Founding Fathers granted the President of the United States the “power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses…” Since President George Washington, tens of thousands of pardons have been granted.
    The actions by President Trump to grant full pardons to 1LT Clint Lorance and MAJ Matt Golsteyn and restore the rank to Chief Gallagher is a clear warning to any commanders who consider siding with political correctness, self-preservation, or personal promotion over the wellbeing of our Warriors, it will no longer be tolerated.


    The "presumption of innocence" will be maintained and the Rights of our Warriors will be preserved - that is what fosters and reinforces good order and discipline amongst warfighters.
    I respectfully welcome any opportunity to discuss or debate the specifics of each of the above-mentioned cases, or any other case with which United American Patriots is involved, face-to-face with any media pundit, politician, general officer, etc.
    I will acknowledge, after reviewing all the details associated with each of these warrior's cases, it is possible a few may still be convinced these Warriors are guilty of some wrongdoing.
    However, no one will be able to deny each had their Rights violated.

    More at: https://townhall.com/columnists/davi...rongs-n2556699
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/tru...-seals-report/

    Trump pardoned Edward Gallagher for war crimes — but the Navy is still ousting him from the SEALs: report

    The acceptability of committing war crimes while in uniform is putting the U.S. Navy on a collision course with President Donald Trump’s White House.

    “The Navy SEAL at the center of a high-profile war crimes case has been ordered to appear before Navy leaders Wednesday morning, and is expected to be notified that the Navy intends to oust him from the elite commando force,” The New York Times reported Tuesday, citing “two Navy officials.”

    “The move could put the SEAL commander, Rear Adm. Collin Green, in direct conflict with President Trump, who last week cleared the sailor, Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher, of any judicial punishment in the war crimes case. Military leaders opposed that action as well as Mr. Trump’s pardons of two soldiers involved in other murder cases,” The Times explained. “Admiral Green now has the authorization he needs from the Navy to act against Chief Gallagher, and the formal letter notifying the chief of the action has been drafted and signed by the admiral, the two officials said.”

    Lt. Cmdr. Robert Breisch, Lt. Jacob Portier, and Lt. Thomas MacNeil will also reportedly be stripped of their Tridents for overseeing Gallagher.

    Admiral Green reportedly knows that crossing Trump could end his career.

    “The move sets up a potential confrontation between Mr. Trump, who has repeatedly championed Chief Gallagher, and Admiral Green, who has said he intends to overhaul discipline and ethics in the SEAL teams and sees Chief Gallagher’s behavior as an obstacle,” The Times reported. “One Navy official who spoke about the specifics of the action said the admiral was making the move knowing that it could end his career, but that he had the backing of Adm. Michael M. Gilday, the chief of naval operations, and Richard V. Spencer, the secretary of the Navy.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  9. #8
    Time to purge the Admiralty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...07542726909952

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    This says far more about you than you likely intended.



    So, has anyone told you what to think yet?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    This says far more about you than you likely intended.



    So, has anyone told you what to think yet?
    LOL

    Turning things on their head again.

    I said I wanted the facts rather than just accepting the narrative, you want people to believe what the narrative tells them without looking into the facts.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    Turning things on their head again.

    I said I wanted the facts rather than just accepting the narrative, you want people to believe what the narrative tells them without looking into the facts.
    So

    Has anyone told you what you need to know?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    So

    Has anyone told you what you need to know?
    Three more Patriots freed...

    Our forces grow larger...

    Your handlers should be scared... yourself included

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...




    1LT Lorance ordered his platoon to open fire on a passing motorcycle.

    MAJ Golsteyn admitted on live TV that he murdered an Iraqi.
    You can document this right?


  17. #15
    Lorance’s case dates back to a 2012 deployment to Afghanistan, when he ordered his soldiers to fire on three unarmed men riding a motorcycle near their patrol. Members of his platoon testified against him at a court-martial trial, describing Lorance as over-zealous and the Afghans as posing no real threat.
    "no real threat" ??

    They had a motorcycle.

    A motorcycle is at least as dangerous as 10 full-grown dogs, and you certainly wouldn't blame a cop for defending himself against that.

    And how did they know they were unarmed? Were they carrying a sign that said "unarmed"?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  18. #16
    I think it's bull$#@! that our brave soldiers are being thrown in prison for things that we applaud when cops do the same thing.

    Trump absolutely made the right move here. Cops and soldiers are both fighting wars of their own, they shouldn't be held to different standards.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  20. #17
    Navy Is Said to Proceed With Disciplinary Plans Against Edward Gallagher

    Top military officials threatened to resign or be fired if their plans to remove Chief Gallagher from the SEALs were halted by President Trump, administration officials said.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/u...gallagher.html
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Navy Is Said to Proceed With Disciplinary Plans Against Edward Gallagher


    Top military officials threatened to resign or be fired if their plans to remove Chief Gallagher from the SEALs were halted by President Trump, administration officials said.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/23/u...gallagher.html
    Esper fires Navy secretary, SEAL will keep Trident pin, Pentagon says




    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...46358091530241



    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...46376420679680



    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...46377720909824

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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