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Thread: Top Bolivian coup plotters were School of the Americas grads,served as attachés

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Sure, compared to a world ruled by angels, or consisting of angels, which therefore needn't be ruled.

    My point was that the type of state matters a great deal.

    Not every state is Stalin 1932.

    There are very important differences of degree.

    How do you think that Western civilization developed in the first place?
    You mean when they weren't fighting to conquer each other or avoid being conquered? Much of it came from the various churches in later years, earlier it came from great thinkers of the times. Plato, Socrates etc.. You could make the case for Rome I suppose but there were empires less oppressive prior to them.
    "The Patriarch"



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not true if you select the correct allies.
    LOL, that's quaint, but it's not true.

    I think at some level you understand that it's over.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    You mean when they weren't fighting to conquer each other or avoid being conquered? Much of it came from the various churches in later years, earlier it came from great thinkers of the times. Plato, Socrates etc.. You could make the case for Rome I suppose but there were empires less oppressive prior to them.
    Socrates (God rest his pagan soul), Plato, and the whole gang (Livy, Cicero, the divine Tacitus, etc) don't matter.

    What matters was that this army here had more or more-well-armed men than that one; and it's always been this way, and always will be.

    Belisarius! What a tragedy! Justinian! Basileus!

    Anyway, the West rose to prominence because it was in a state of political chaos, with each little lord competing against the other.

    However, this also, in the long run, by 1914, caused the destruction of Europe and its civilization.

    ...because no one had been able to conquer the whole continent (though Charles V tried).

    So, kind of a mixed bag..
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Socrates (God rest his pagan soul), Plato, and the whole gang (Livy, Cicero, the divine Tacitus, etc) don't matter.

    What matters was that this army here had more or more-well-armed men than that one; and it's always been this way, and always will be.

    Belisarius! What a tragedy! Justinian! Basileus!

    Anyway, the West rose to prominence because it was in a state of political chaos, with each little lord competing against the other.

    However, this also, in the long run, by 1914, caused the destruction of Europe and its civilization.

    ...because no one had been able to conquer the whole continent (though Charles V tried).

    So, kind of a mixed bag..
    Well, that's true, but by 1914 they weren't really "little lords" as you put it. The city/state concept was long gone.
    "The Patriarch"



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Well, that's true, but by 1914 they weren't really "little lords" as you put it. The city/state concept was long gone.
    Right, but that's part of my point.

    In, say, 1600, there were around 500 independent states in Germany alone.

    Then, because of the pressure of war, these were united, ultimately into the German Empire in 1871.

    The political anarchy which characterized pre-modern Europe was inherently unstable.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Right, but that's part of my point.

    In, say, 1600, there were around 500 independent states in Germany alone.

    Then, because of the pressure of war, these were united, ultimately into the German Empire in 1871.

    The political anarchy which characterized pre-modern Europe was inherently unstable.
    Do you feel that way also about pre-constitution America? Do you think that forming a united state (which is ultimately what happened) was a good outcome?
    "The Patriarch"

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Do you feel that way also about pre-constitution America? Do you think that forming a united state (which is ultimately what happened) was a good outcome?
    America before c. 1900 isn't important or interesting.

    It was an extended camping vacation for Europeans.

    But, to answer your question, I would have preferred that the South secede successfully, without a war.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    America before c. 1900 isn't important or interesting.

    It was an extended camping vacation for Europeans.

    But, to answer your question, I would have preferred that the South secede successfully, without a war.
    I agree. But I wasn't referring to the civil war but the aftermath of the revolutionary war.
    "The Patriarch"

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I agree. But I wasn't referring to the civil war but the aftermath of the revolutionary war.
    My bad, I misunderstood.

    So, the question is whether I think that the American revolution was a good thing, more or less?

    I'm basically indifferent on this question.

    Britain had already fallen to the revolution (1649); it was no longer a monarchy in any meaningful sense.

    If the US had not become independent then, it would have become independent as South Africa, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand did.

    In the world wars, which is when these relations really mattered, the US acted like a British colony anyway.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    My bad, I misunderstood.

    So, the question is whether I think that the American revolution was a good thing, more or less?

    I'm basically indifferent on this question.

    Britain had already fallen to the revolution (1649); it was no longer a monarchy in any meaningful sense.

    If the US had not become independent then, it would have become independent as South Africa, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand did.

    In the world wars, which is when these relations really mattered, the US acted like a British colony anyway.
    I'm sorry, I should be more clear. How do you think the various States should have proceeded after winning the Revolutionary War? Do you think writing and enforcing the Constitution was the optimal course to take or should the various States have remained as such with a much more limited agreement-alliance?

    I believe the latter would have been much more beneficial to liberty and have resulted in a much less aggressive America/United States.
    Last edited by Origanalist; 11-19-2019 at 11:01 PM.
    "The Patriarch"

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I'm sorry, I should be more clear. How do you think the various States should have proceeded after winning the Revolutionary War? Do you think writing and enforcing the Constitution was the optimal course to take or should the various States have remained as such with a much more limited agreement-alliance?
    Assuming they were going to separate from Britain, they absolutely should have united.

    It delayed the war for half a century, and time has value.

    I believe the latter would have been much more beneficial to liberty and have resulted in a much less aggressive America/United States.
    If they hadn't united, they would have been gobbled up by Britain, piece by piece.

    That wouldn't be a bad outcome either, since, as I said, the US functioned like a British colony anyway when it counted.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Assuming they were going to separate from Britain, they absolutely should have united.

    It delayed the war for half a century, and time has value.



    If they hadn't united, they would have been gobbled up by Britain, piece by piece.

    That wouldn't be a bad outcome either, since, as I said, the US functioned like a British colony anyway when it counted.
    Britain already tried gobbling them up and failed, before the Constitution was written.
    "The Patriarch"



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Britain already tried gobbling them up and failed, before the Constitution was written.
    The colonies, clinging to the Atlantic coast, worried about oyarde, would have failed militarily and politically had they not united.

    But for the French revolution and Napoleon, which provided a major distraction, Britain would have recovered these lands without much ado.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    LOL, that's quaint, but it's not true.

    I think at some level you understand that it's over.
    It's never over.
    The cycle continues.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The colonies, clinging to the Atlantic coast, worried about oyarde, would have failed militarily and politically had they not united.

    But for the French revolution and Napoleon, which provided a major distraction, Britain would have recovered these lands without much ado.
    A weaker union somewhere between the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution would have sufficed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's never over.
    The cycle continues.
    The future of the West is quite bright, in fact, but it's going to take some time for forms of government to change.

    I'll be long dead by the time things get properly sorted out.

    In the meantime, it'll be important to enjoy life.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-20-2019 at 12:13 AM. Reason: typo
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    A weaker union somewhere between the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution would have sufficed.
    It would have resulted in more or less the same outcome.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  21. #78
    Bolivia's interim government presented a bill on Wednesday that aims to forge a path to new elections and defuse street violence that has racked the country and killed 32 people since a disputed October vote.The South American country's two chambers of congress are expected to debate the election bill beginning on Thursday and possibly extending into Friday, which would annul the Oct. 20 poll and appoint a new electoral board within 15 days of its passage, paving the way for a new vote after long-term leftist leader Evo Morales resigned under pressure this month.
    A date for new elections was not included in the proposal. The bill called for a "credible and professional" election body "in order to pacify the country and redirect democratic institutionality."


    Conflict in the region of Cochabamba and the high-altitude city of El Alto has rattled Bolivia over the last week since Morales' departure, with clashes at a gas power plant blockade on Tuesday that left eight people dead.
    The Ministry of Defense in a statement Wednesday said that supporters of Morales' MAS party were surrounding the plant with the intentions of damaging it with explosives. The ministry said the Armed Forces would safeguard the plant from any attack or takeover attempt.


    On Wednesday, hundreds of people queued to refill gas canisters in La Paz, while lines of cars snaked though the city's roads waiting to refuel after protests by Morales supporters choked off fuel and food supplies in recent days.
    In a news conference on Wednesday, government minister Arturo Murillo claimed that Morales was continuing to stoke unrest. He showed reporters a video of a phone call including audio allegedly of Morales directing plans for blockades.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/bolivian-lawm...150322101.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    Maybe the motive for this coup was that Bolivia doesn’t export enough cocaine?!?
    In 2017, Anez’s nephew was arrested in Brazil for smuggling 480 kilos of drugs. Because of this, security minister Carlos Romero called Anez’s position in the senate "rogue": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_%C3%81%C3%B1ez
    The following story certainly makes it more probable that a motive for getting rid of President Morales was that he took the “War on drugs” a bit too seriously. In a strange twist even rumours have been spread that Morales was promoting illicit drugs (while selected puppet president Jeanine Anez’s nephew was caught smuggling drugs).

    According to UNDOC, Bolivian farmers are helped to “develop licit farming alternatives to coca bush cultivation”. “Related activities” with Bolivian authorities continue “fight(ing) against drug trafficking and contribute to achieving the objectives of the National Alternative Development Plan”.
    In February 2019, UNODC reported that Bolivia had “inaugurated port control to boost the fight against illicit drug trafficking”.

    The project:
    reduc(ed) illicit coca bush cultivation and cocaine trafficking (under Morales), providing licit economic alternatives, thus reducing poverty and social marginalization.
    It emphasizes the prevention and further expansion of illicit coca bush cultivation and the need to improve the living conditions of people in areas under such cultivation.
    While there are many rumours that Morales won the presidential elections through fraud, an “independent analysis” by the Center for Economic Policy Research revealed no evidence of fraud or electoral irregularities: https://stephenlendman.org/2019/11/m...a-narco-state/
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
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  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The popular view is that anything done by outside intervention, US or otherwise, is therefore wrong. This was a view often promoted by the Soviets during the Cold War (only in relation to US, French, etc intervention, not their own, of course). There was lots of talk of imperialists, capitalist raiders, mega-corporations, and other evil-sounding things. This apparently continues:



    The implication is that there's something wrong with this; that that coup d'etat which the US allegedly caused was for the worse. Was it? I don't know. I'm not a Haiti observer. Given the kinds of governments which Haiti has enjoyed since its independence from France, whatever dictatorship the CIA allegedly foisted upon the island may well have been an improvement - or maybe not. The point is that journalists almost always operate on the unspoken assumption that self-determination trumps all, and impress upon their audiences the idea that any changes wrought by foreign powers are necessarily for the worse. The Chileans (some of them) want to establish a bolshevik regime and slaughter their opponents? Great. What right do we (evil capitalist meddlers) have to interfere...?

    Again, I reserve my judgment about this thing in Bolivia; this is a general comment.
    Was Saddam an evil dictator? Yes. Is Iraq better off or is the U.S. safer thanks to our overthrow of him? No.

    Was the Soviet leaning government in Afghanistan bad? Yes. Is Afghanistan better or is the U.S. safer thanks to our funding the Muhjahadeen to overthrow it? No.

    Was Moyammar Ghaddafi an evil dictator? Yes. Is Libya better off or is the U.S. safer thanks to our overthrow of him? No.

    Is Assad an evil dictator? Yes. Is Syria better off or is the U.S. safer thanks to our attempt at overthrowing him? No.

    How much data do you need before you start to see the obvious trend line?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not true if you select the correct allies.
    You mean like the alt-right that supports democrat Andrew Yang because getting a check for $1,000 a month just cause you're 'Merican sounds good to them?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    The following story certainly makes it more probable that a motive for getting rid of President Morales was that he took the “War on drugs” a bit too seriously. In a strange twist even rumours have been spread that Morales was promoting illicit drugs (while selected puppet president Jeanine Anez’s nephew was caught smuggling drugs).

    According to UNDOC, Bolivian farmers are helped to “develop licit farming alternatives to coca bush cultivation”. “Related activities” with Bolivian authorities continue “fight(ing) against drug trafficking and contribute to achieving the objectives of the National Alternative Development Plan”.
    In February 2019, UNODC reported that Bolivia had “inaugurated port control to boost the fight against illicit drug trafficking”.

    The project:

    While there are many rumours that Morales won the presidential elections through fraud, an “independent analysis” by the Center for Economic Policy Research revealed no evidence of fraud or electoral irregularities: https://stephenlendman.org/2019/11/m...a-narco-state/
    Never let facts get in the way of the narrative.
    "The Patriarch"

  27. #83
    In 2009, Jeremy Bigwood and Eva Golinger obtained (formerly) classified documents through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request that show that since 2002 the US Agency for International Development (USAID) invested more than $97 million in “decentralization” and “regional autonomy” projects and political opposition parties in Bolivia.
    For some reason, these documents have disappeared from the internet (I couldn’t find them)...

    USAID apparently was the “first donor to support departmental governments” and “decentralization programs” in Bolivia.
    Through the international branches of the Republicon-Democrook party, the International Republican Institute (IRI) and National Democratic Institute (NDI) that are funded by the Department of State and CIA-front the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), USAID has funded and provided strategic political aid to opposition groups in Bolivia. The principal beneficiaries of this funding were opposition parties Podemos, MNR, MIR and more than 100 politically-oriented NGOs in Bolivia.
    In 2007, $1.25 million was dedicated to “training for members of political parties on current political and electoral processes, including the constituent assembly and the referendum on autonomy”.

    One document explains that this “decentralization” and “regional autonomy” program began in 2004, when USAID established an Office for Transition Initiatives (OTI) en Bolivia. The OTI contracted the US company Casals & Associates to coordinate a program based that included autonomy for the region surrounding the province of Santa Cruz de la Sierra in Eastern Bolivia where the hard core opposition to President Evo Morales is based: https://nacla.org/news/usaids-silent-invasion-bolivia
    (http://archive.is/d1Wcs)
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You mean like the alt-right that supports democrat Andrew Yang because getting a check for $1,000 a month just cause you're 'Merican sounds good to them?
    Nope.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He lost the vote to end term limits so he got activist judges to "interpret" them as in violation of an international agreement but such an international agreement can't override a Constitution.
    I don't know about Bolivia, but in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, by Constitution, judges cannot judge based on the Constitition, but have to consider international treaties ABOVE local law.
    Easily solved by taking them out of the international treaty...

    Newly declared interim President Jeanine Anez, whose party received only 4% of the votes in October, has expelled hundreds of Cuban doctors, broken off ties to Venezuela and pulled Bolivia out of multiple international treaties and intercontinental organisations.
    Anez declared that she is “committed to taking all measures necessary to pacify” the population. Anez has described indigenous Bolivians as “satanic” (there is some discussion on whether the following tweet is real and has been deleted since).


    Many people look to international human rights organisations to actually defend them against state terrorism. Human Rights Watch (HRW) has once again shown to endorse US-backed coups.
    In its official communiqué, HRW didn’t call it a “coup”, instead insisting Morales “resigned”. HRW’s Americas Director José Miguel Vivanco claimed President Morales stepped down “after weeks of civil unrest and violent clashes” and for some reason “forgets” to mention opposition violence against his party or the US-trained military “suggesting”, at gunpoint, that he resign.

    HRW Director Kenneth Roth went even further, noting that elected president Morales having to flee the country is a refreshing step forward for democracy, and that Morales was “the casualty of a counter-revolution aimed at defending democracy … against electoral fraud and his own illegal candidacy”.
    Roth also presented President Morales as an out-of-touch “strongman” and claimed that Morales had ordered the army to shoot protesters, but didn’t provide any evidence for this allegation: https://www.mintpressnews.com/human-...olivia/262887/


    On the evening of 18 November, Bolivia’s government sent in helicopters, tanks and heavily armed soldiers to break the protests at and blockade of the Senkata gas plant in the indigenous city of El Alto. On 19 November, all hell broke loose when the soldiers began tear-gassing and then shot into the crowd of peaceful protesters. Some were just walking to work when they were struck by bullets.

    At least dozens of people were taken to local clinics with bullet wounds of which 8 confirmed dead. A grieving mother whose son was shot cried out: “They’re killing us like dogs”.
    The 21 November peaceful funeral procession to commemorate the dead was also tear-gassed.

    For some reason our wonderful media hasn’t given much publicity to this event (and instead reported that the army overthrew Morales because HE had ordered to shoot protesters)…
    The Anez administration threatened journalists if they cover protests. Bolivia’s main TV station reported only 3 deaths and blamed the violence on the protesters, showing a speech by new Defence Minister Fernando Lopez, who lied that the soldiers did not fire “a single bullet” and claimed that “terrorist groups” had tried to use dynamite to break into the gasoline plant: https://www.globalresearch.ca/they-k...a-help/5695714
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    I don't know about Bolivia, but in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, by Constitution, judges cannot judge based on the Constitition, but have to consider international treaties ABOVE local law.
    Easily solved by taking them out of the international treaty...

    Newly declared interim President Jeanine Anez, whose party received only 4% of the votes in October, has expelled hundreds of Cuban doctors, broken off ties to Venezuela and pulled Bolivia out of multiple international treaties and intercontinental organisations.
    Anez declared that she is “committed to taking all measures necessary to pacify” the population. Anez has described indigenous Bolivians as “satanic” (there is some discussion on whether the following tweet is real and has been deleted since).


    Many people look to international human rights organisations to actually defend them against state terrorism. Human Rights Watch (HRW) has once again shown to endorse US-backed coups.
    In its official communiqué, HRW didn’t call it a “coup”, instead insisting Morales “resigned”. HRW’s Americas Director José Miguel Vivanco claimed President Morales stepped down “after weeks of civil unrest and violent clashes” and for some reason “forgets” to mention opposition violence against his party or the US-trained military “suggesting”, at gunpoint, that he resign.

    HRW Director Kenneth Roth went even further, noting that elected president Morales having to flee the country is a refreshing step forward for democracy, and that Morales was “the casualty of a counter-revolution aimed at defending democracy … against electoral fraud and his own illegal candidacy”.
    Roth also presented President Morales as an out-of-touch “strongman” and claimed that Morales had ordered the army to shoot protesters, but didn’t provide any evidence for this allegation: https://www.mintpressnews.com/human-...olivia/262887/


    On the evening of 18 November, Bolivia’s government sent in helicopters, tanks and heavily armed soldiers to break the protests at and blockade of the Senkata gas plant in the indigenous city of El Alto. On 19 November, all hell broke loose when the soldiers began tear-gassing and then shot into the crowd of peaceful protesters. Some were just walking to work when they were struck by bullets.

    At least dozens of people were taken to local clinics with bullet wounds of which 8 confirmed dead. A grieving mother whose son was shot cried out: “They’re killing us like dogs”.
    The 21 November peaceful funeral procession to commemorate the dead was also tear-gassed.

    For some reason our wonderful media hasn’t given much publicity to this event (and instead reported that the army overthrew Morales because HE had ordered to shoot protesters)…
    The Anez administration threatened journalists if they cover protests. Bolivia’s main TV station reported only 3 deaths and blamed the violence on the protesters, showing a speech by new Defence Minister Fernando Lopez, who lied that the soldiers did not fire “a single bullet” and claimed that “terrorist groups” had tried to use dynamite to break into the gasoline plant: https://www.globalresearch.ca/they-k...a-help/5695714
    And you again defend communism and globalism.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And you again defend communism and globalism.
    By posting a globalresearch article? What?

    You post the most random accusations when you don't want to take time to read the article...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Was Saddam an evil dictator? Yes. Is Iraq better off or is the U.S. safer thanks to our overthrow of him? No.

    Was the Soviet leaning government in Afghanistan bad? Yes. Is Afghanistan better or is the U.S. safer thanks to our funding the Muhjahadeen to overthrow it? No.

    Was Moyammar Ghaddafi an evil dictator? Yes. Is Libya better off or is the U.S. safer thanks to our overthrow of him? No.

    Is Assad an evil dictator? Yes. Is Syria better off or is the U.S. safer thanks to our attempt at overthrowing him? No.

    How much data do you need before you start to see the obvious trend line?
    I'm talking about a principle, not endorsing any particular intervention.

    However, if you want an example of a fairly successful intervention in recent history:



    Was Moyammar Ghaddafi an evil dictator?
    It'll always be Burma to me.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



  33. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It'll always be Burma to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  35. #90
    On Thursday, newly installed puppet Bolivian Foreign Minister Karen Longaric said Bolivia will "restore relations with Israel".
    Israeli foreign minister Israel Katz was pleased and added:
    The departure of President Morales, who was hostile to Israel, and his replacement by a government friendly to Israel, allows the fruition of the process.
    In 2009, Evo Morales cut relations with Tel Aviv shortly after Israel carried out a three-week attack of Gaza, killing 1,282 Palestinians (of which 333 children). Morales also said that he would ask the International Criminal Court (ICC) to charge Israeli officials for the killings.
    In 2010, Morales also formally recognised Palestine as a sovereign and independent state within the 1967-defined borders: http://217.218.67.231/Detail/2019/11...s-with-Israel-
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

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