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Thread: Top Bolivian coup plotters were School of the Americas grads,served as attachés

  1. #31
    The popular view is that anything done by outside intervention, US or otherwise, is therefore wrong. This was a view often promoted by the Soviets during the Cold War (only in relation to US, French, etc intervention, not their own, of course). There was lots of talk of imperialists, capitalist raiders, mega-corporations, and other evil-sounding things. This apparently continues:

    As I found from the more than 11,000 FOIA documents I obtained while writing my book on the paramilitary campaign waged in the lead up to the February 2004 ouster of Haiti’s elected government and the post-coup repression, US officials worked for years to ingratiate themselves and establish connections with Haitian police, army, and ex-army officials. These connections as well as the recruitment and information gathering efforts eventually paid off.
    The implication is that there's something wrong with this; that that coup d'etat which the US allegedly caused was for the worse. Was it? I don't know. I'm not a Haiti observer. Given the kinds of governments which Haiti has enjoyed since its independence from France, whatever dictatorship the CIA allegedly foisted upon the island may well have been an improvement - or maybe not. The point is that journalists almost always operate on the unspoken assumption that self-determination trumps all, and impress upon their audiences the idea that any changes wrought by foreign powers are necessarily for the worse. The Chileans (some of them) want to establish a bolshevik regime and slaughter their opponents? Great. What right do we (evil capitalist meddlers) have to interfere...?

    Again, I reserve my judgment about this thing in Bolivia; this is a general comment.



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  3. #32
    At the end of the day, meddling empires sow money and reap resentment. If the bankers can create money from debt like junk bonds which are legal tender, however, the bankers will bribe the government well to reap resentment.

    Meanwhile, populations who shoot themselves in the foot don't tend to blame other countries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The popular view is that anything done by outside intervention, US or otherwise, is therefore wrong. This was a view often promoted by the Soviets during the Cold War (only in relation to US, French, etc intervention, not their own, of course). There was lots of talk of imperialists, capitalist raiders, mega-corporations, and other evil-sounding things. This apparently continues:



    The implication is that there's something wrong with this; that that coup d'etat which the US allegedly caused was for the worse. Was it? I don't know. I'm not a Haiti observer. Given the kinds of governments which Haiti has enjoyed since its independence from France, whatever dictatorship the CIA allegedly foisted upon the island may well have been an improvement - or maybe not. The point is that journalists almost always operate on the unspoken assumption that self-determination trumps all, and impress upon their audiences the idea that any changes wrought by foreign powers are necessarily for the worse. The Chileans (some of them) want to establish a bolshevik regime and slaughter their opponents? Great. What right do we (evil capitalist meddlers) have to interfere...?

    Again, I reserve my judgment about this thing in Bolivia; this is a general comment.
    Good, then you pay for it. And while you're at it, make sure to let the rest of the world know that this sort of thing doesn't bother you and post your address.
    Last edited by Origanalist; 11-18-2019 at 01:15 AM.
    "The Patriarch"

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Good, then you pay for it.
    And take all the credit/blame for the results.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And take all the credit/blame for the results.
    I was editing my post as you typed.
    "The Patriarch"

  8. #36
    How peculiar!
    In another thread, @Swordsmyth took offence of some less than flattering remarks on poor Donald Trump, who apparently “can give two positions in one speech”.
    In that thread Swordsmyth repeatedly wrote, that “we should think for ourselves”: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ch-(flashback)


    Now in this thread, Swordsmyth apparently doesn’t agree that those silly Bolivians have the right to vote for some Socialist “commie”…
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't care.
    Morales was a cheating commie swine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Morales was the one engaged in a coup:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's a fact that Morales violated their constitution to run again.
    It is also a fact that other communist countries intervene all over the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Bolivia is full of communists, it only takes enough money to pay the ringleaders.

    Let me know when you think of a reason Evil Moralless should have been able to violate their constitution and run again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But that doesn't mean I'm going to spend one second crying for a cheating commie swine or think that his overthrow was a bad thing for his country.
    We shouldn't interfere for our own sake whether the result is good or bad but in this case the result was NOT bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And even if right and wrong was determined by popular vote it seems Evil Moralless cheated and the vote was against him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But this can't be called a coup when Evil Moralless not only cheated in the vote counting but violated their constitution to even run.
    Those calling it a coup are commies trying to use the issue of foreign interference to portray the removal of a cheat as something bad.
    The commies always jump on situations like this and make martyrs of their tyrants, many people fell for it when the Chilean legislature impeached Allende and when he refuse to leave office told the military to remove him.
    And many people can't oppose our intervention without taking the side of whoever the target is even when the target is an evil commie cheat.

    Personally I find it disgusting that some shyll doesn’t even try to hide that it contradicts itself over and over again in defence of some flavour of politrics…
    But I sort of agree with this statement!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are making it very easy to expose you as a liar.
    Last edited by Firestarter; 11-18-2019 at 09:14 AM.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

    Donald Trump, another puppet controlled by the international elite: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...=1038&start=60

  9. #37
    Look how wonderful, Yankee puppet Jeanine Anez has earlier “recognized Juan Guaidó as acting president of Venezuela”.

    Maybe the motive for this coup was that Bolivia doesn’t export enough cocaine?!?
    In 2017, Anez’s nephew was arrested in Brazil for smuggling 480 kilos of drugs. Because of this, security minister Carlos Romero called Anez’s position in the senate "rogue": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_%C3%81%C3%B1ez
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

    Donald Trump, another puppet controlled by the international elite: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...=1038&start=60

  10. #38
    Because of all of this “green energy” propaganda, Lithium has become a popular commodity (used in electric cars).
    The military coup in Bolivia was staged within a week after President Evo Morales cancelled an agreement (on 4 November) with the German company ACI Systems Alemania (ACISA) for developing lithium.

    Somewhat underreported were the protests from residents of the Potosí area about the pollution caused by developing lithium. The Potosí region in Bolivia has an estimated 50% to 70% of the world's lithium reserves: https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...s-lithium-deal
    (http://archive.is/RFjTm)


    Here’s a video on the military coup.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

    Donald Trump, another puppet controlled by the international elite: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...=1038&start=60

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    How peculiar!
    In another thread, @Swordsmyth took offence of some less than flattering remarks on poor Donald Trump, who apparently “can give two positions in one speech”.
    In that thread Swordsmyth repeatedly wrote, that “we should think for ourselves”: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ch-(flashback)


    Now in this thread, Swordsmyth apparently doesn’t agree that those silly Bolivians have the right to vote for some Socialist “commie”…



    Personally I find it disgusting that some shyll doesn’t even try to hide that it contradicts itself over and over again in defence of some flavour of politrics…
    But I sort of agree with this statement!
    So you think communists have a right to violate their own Constitution and commit voter fraud?

    I find that disgusting.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So you think communists have a right to violate their own Constitution and commit voter fraud?
    None other than illegitimate usurper president Jeanine Anez breached articles 161 and 169 of the Bolivian Constitution.
    According to art. 161 the Legislative Assembly’s include “accept(ing) or reject(ing) the resignation of the president (and) vice president”.

    According to art. 169:
    In the event of an impediment or definitive absence of the President, he or she shall be replaced by the Vice President and, in the absence of the latter, by the President of the Senate, and in his or her absence by the President of the Chamber of Deputies. In this last case, new elections shall be called within a maximum period of ninety days.

    In case of temporary absence, the Vice President shall assume the Presidency for a term not to exceed ninety days.
    Before the CIA coup, most Bolivians knew little or nothing about Anez, who was elected to Bolivia’s Senate in 2014 with (only) 91,895 votes (1.7% of 5,171,428 votes).

    In support of the CIA-coup, Twitter created 4,492 accounts in only 2 days.
    Luciano Galup noted that 3,612 of those accounts have less than 2 followers: https://stephenlendman.org/2019/11/c...cy-in-bolivia/


    Please show us some of the horrible misdeeds that "commie" Bolivian President Evo Morales perpetrated.
    Or "evidence" of voter fraud...


    Morales invited the international community to audit the election results, saying: “Let them come here. Let them know how much they have earned”.
    So the Trump administration obviously doesn't want that!

    During the time Morales was president, Bolivia had “an unprecedented decade of political and social stability and a growth rate between 4% and 6%” — a respectable 4.2% in 2018: https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-cou...orales/5694446


    The CIA has always supported the most violent regimes...
    Ironically Anglo-American intelligence (and funds) have actively supported (installed) the Communist regimes of the USSR, China and Cuba: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...hp?f=23&t=1154
    Last edited by Firestarter; 11-19-2019 at 08:59 AM.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

    Donald Trump, another puppet controlled by the international elite: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...=1038&start=60



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    None other than illegitimate usurper president Jeanine Anez breached articles 161 and 169 of the Bolivian Constitution.
    According to art. 161 the Legislative Assembly’s include “accept(ing) or reject(ing) the resignation of the president (and) vice president”.

    According to art. 169:


    Before the CIA coup, most Bolivians knew little or nothing about Anez, who was elected to Bolivia’s Senate in 2014 with (only) 91,895 votes (1.7% of 5,171,428 votes).

    In support of the CIA-coup, Twitter created 4,492 accounts in only 2 days.
    Luciano Galup noted that 3,612 of those accounts have less than 2 followers: https://stephenlendman.org/2019/11/c...cy-in-bolivia/


    Please show us some of the horrible misdeeds that "commie" Bolivian President Evo Morales perpetrated.
    Or "evidence" of voter fraud...


    Morales invited the international community to audit the election results, saying: “Let them come here. Let them know how much they have earned”.
    So the Trump administration obviously doesn't want that!

    During the time Morales was president, Bolivia had “an unprecedented decade of political and social stability and a growth rate between 4% and 6%” — a respectable 4.2% in 2018: https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-cou...orales/5694446


    The CIA has always supported the most violent regimes...
    Ironically Anglo-American intelligence (and funds) have actively supported (installed) the Communist regimes of the USSR, China and Cuba: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/vie...hp?f=23&t=1154
    Since Evil Moralless was not eligible to run again then it matters little whether those who accuse him of fraud in the voting are correct because his running again was cheating in and of itself.

    I don't know if the person who replaced him is legitimate or following the rules and I never said they were.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Since Evil Moralless was not eligible to run again then it matters little whether those who accuse him of fraud in the voting are correct because his running again was cheating in and of itself.

    I don't know if the person who replaced him is legitimate or following the rules and I never said they were.
    Only problem is, term limits were struck down by their version of the Supreme Court in 2017.

    And what brought this on? They put Bolivia in violation of an agreement they had signed onto.

    And what prompted them to sign onto this pact? Meddling by the Organization of American States.

    https://nacla.org/news/2017/12/20/bo...ye-term-limits

    Always fun when U.S. meddling creates a problem which can only be solved by the U.S. military.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Only problem is, term limits were struck down by their version of the Supreme Court in 2017.

    And what brought this on? They put Bolivia in violation of an agreement they had signed onto.

    And what prompted them to sign onto this pact? Meddling by the Organization of American States.

    https://nacla.org/news/2017/12/20/bo...ye-term-limits

    Always fun when U.S. meddling creates a problem which can only be solved by the U.S. military.
    He lost the vote to end term limits so he got activist judges to "interpret" them as in violation of an international agreement but such an international agreement can't override a Constitution.

    Or do you support the breaching of the US Constitution through international agreements and judicial "interpretation"?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He lost the vote to end term limits so he got activist judges to "interpret" them as in violation of an international agreement but such an international agreement can't override a Constitution.

    Or do you support the breaching of the US Constitution through international agreements and judicial "interpretation"?
    The Constitution itself names the judiciary as the ultimate arbitors of what the Constitution means. So that part of that question means nothing.

    As far as your theory about what prompted the ruling, the fact remains that the OAS clearly gave the court everything it needed to do it. No meddling, no ruling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Constitution itself names the judiciary as the ultimate arbitors of what the Constitution means. So that part of that question means nothing.

    As far as your theory about what prompted the ruling, the fact remains that the OAS clearly gave the court everything it needed to do it. No meddling, no ruling.
    The court can't "interpret" away the plain meaning of the text and it didn't try, it found that an international agreement overrode the Constitution and it had to "interpret" the international agreement to claim that it allowed him to run an unlimited number of times in violation of the will of the people.

    The people had every right to overthrow such a lawless government and even had a duty to do so, the only problem in any of it is that we shouldn't have been involved which I have said multiple times.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Good, then you pay for it. And while you're at it, make sure to let the rest of the world know that this sort of thing doesn't bother you and post your address.
    The same applies to you paying for the security of your neighbors one county over.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The same applies to you paying for the security of your neighbors one county over.
    The security of the next county over affects my security far more than the security of Bolivia.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The same applies to you paying for the security of your neighbors one county over.
    Who says I do?
    "The Patriarch"



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Who says I do?
    In a civilized society, the cost of basic security is socialized.

    This is what a minarchist state means.

    I appreciate that some people here, yourself included evidently, are anarchists.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The security of the next county over affects my security far more than the security of Bolivia.
    LOL, so, @Origanalist, this fellow agrees, except only certain, specific foreigners are to be outside the circle of protection.

    Mexicans, for instance, do not deserve good treatment.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    In a civilized society, the cost of basic security is socialized.

    This is what a minarchist state means.

    I appreciate that some people here, yourself included evidently, are anarchists.
    Lol, I think we've gone just a tad beyond basic security. And I reject your premise anyway. Socializing the cost is what got us here.
    "The Patriarch"

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    LOL, so, @Origanalist, this fellow agrees, except only certain, specific foreigners are to be outside the circle of protection.

    Mexicans, for instance, do not deserve good treatment.
    Those who share our culture and values such as liberty are worth joining with as need and willing agreement dictate, those who do not and are far away do not affect us and must fend for themselves.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Lol, I think we've gone just a tad beyond basic security. And I reject your premise anyway. Socializing the cost is what got us here.
    You're complaining about the current government, which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

    States aren't inherently oppressive; certain kinds of states are.

    Discussion of this is verboten, so, keep voting or conspicuously not voting, or whatever it is you do.

    Oh well.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You're complaining about the current government, which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

    States aren't inherently oppressive; certain kinds of states are.

    Discussion of this is verboten, so, keep voting or conspicuously not voting, or whatever it is you do.

    Oh well.
    Of course they are.
    "The Patriarch"

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Those who share our culture and values such as liberty are worth joining with as need and willing agreement dictate, those who do not and are far away do not affect us and must fend for themselves.
    There is no society on the planet which adheres to libertarians values, nor will there be so long as these societies are democratic.

    So, what we (libertarians) have on the menu is nationalists on the one side, and bolsheviks on the other.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    There is no society on the planet which adheres to libertarians values, nor will there be so long as these societies are democratic.

    So, what we (libertarians) have on the menu is nationalists on the one side, and bolsheviks on the other.
    There are those that are closer and can be moved in our direction and those that are farther away and will not listen.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Of course they are.
    Sure, compared to a world ruled by angels, or consisting of angels, which therefore needn't be ruled.

    My point was that the type of state matters a great deal.

    Not every state is Stalin 1932.

    There are very important differences of degree.

    How do you think that Western civilization developed in the first place?

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are those that are closer and can be moved in our direction and those that are farther away and will not listen.
    There are 51% of voters who want freestuff, and they will get it till the whole enterprise collapses (for a shortage of freestuff).

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    There are 51% of voters who want freestuff, and they will get it till the whole enterprise collapses (for a shortage of freestuff).
    That's not true if you select the correct allies.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not true if you select the correct allies.
    51% of the voters won't want free stuff if who picks what allies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

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