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Thread: Why Do Elections Favor Socialists Over Libertarians?

  1. #1

    Exclamation Why Do Elections Favor Socialists Over Libertarians?

    Why Do Elections Favor Socialists Over Libertarians?

    https://www.libertynation.com/why-do...-libertarians/

    The socialists are gaining momentum, while libertarians are losing steam.

    By: Andrew Moran November 14, 2019

    by Andrew Moran

    The socialists have had quite the last couple of weeks at the ballot box. Across the United States, self-described democratic socialists were victorious in gaining power or holding onto public office. Most prominently, Seattle City Councilor Kshama Sawant won her re-election bid and Lee Carter was given another two-year mandate by Virginia’s 50th district voters. Overseas, socialists were victorious in Portugal, and Jeremy Corbyn’s Labor Party is polling in second place ahead of the U.K. election. Put simply, despite being an ideology of failure, ignorance, and envy, socialism continues to be popular.

    But what about the libertarians – big L and little L? What happened to a crusade that seemed destined for greatness after attracting millions of Americans in the aftermath of the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections?

    Where Are The Libertarians?

    Libertarians possess very little power in the U.S. today. As of 2019, Libertarian Party members have about 200 elected offices, ranging from school boards to treasury posts. In Congress, there are a handful of libertarian-leaning public officials, such as Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY), and Rep. Justin Amash (I-MI).

    The Libertarian Party (LP) has more than 500,000 registered members, and with many Americans becoming disenfranchised with the two-party system, the porcupines are appealing to more people. But as the LP attempts to allure additional voters, it risks becoming a big tent apparatus that tries to be all things to all people, and this could damage the entity’s long-term integrity.

    Today, the LP has a long list of ideologically diverse caucuses within the party, including a controversial socialist caucus. Members hold conflicting views on the most basic libertarian principles. It is doubtful that the socialist wing will agree with the Mises people on fiscal, tax, or gun policy.

    Leadership might be even more of a pressing matter. In recent years, the LP has embraced Republican-lite individuals and tossed to the side several well-known libertarians. As the party welcomed former Governor William Weld (R-MA) into the fold, it expressed little interest in having the godfather of libertarianism, former Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), speak at the 2018 convention. That is not all. The leadership compared the Paul family to the Bushes and Clintons and claimed the Russian government had backed the elder Paul’s 2008 presidential campaign. It targeted the Mises Institute, an entity named after the great economist Ludwig von Mises, by comparing it to a Nazi organization.

    The New American’s Steve Byas opined in February 2018:

    “It would appear that the Libertarian Party has opted to cast itself in such a way so as to appeal to secularists, globalists, and social liberals, and to play down what one would think are libertarian positions, such as limited government.”

    Commentator Tom Woods likes to refer to these individuals as won’t-you-please-take-me-seriously-good-Mr.-New-York-Times-reporter-sir libertarians. These people will use politically correct terminology, avoid musing on certain topics, and virtue-signal by signing letters opposing fascism (you’re a libertarian, of course you oppose fascism!).

    The LP recently got into some controversy when it disinvited Maj Toure, a black gun rights activist who is running for Philadelphia’s city council, as a keynote speaker at this year’s Libertarian National Convention. Toure claimed that he was asked not to attend because of a false accusation that he outed “a potential ‘big’ donor.” Toure is the type of young blood the party needs, and he certainly would not cave to acceptable opinion purported by the establishment. But the leadership felt differently.

    Social Liberal, Fiscal Conservative

    The Libertarian Party has abandoned the spirit of its founders, like Murray Rothbard. It has instead chosen to adopt the vanilla version of libertarianism, known as “socially liberal and fiscally conservative.” This could explain why the Libertarians are not having any electoral success.

    Let’s face it: The young generation of Republicans has become libertarian-lite. We are currently seeing far more GOP politicians and voters without gray hair spouting some of the rhetoric you would find in a libertarian manifesto, such as drug legalization or an end to regime change wars. Many Republicans have also called out the Federal Reserve and championed gold-backed money. The Libertarians no longer hold a monopoly on these views. The LP’s only shot at electoral success is to go back to its roots and start local.

    Is talking monetary policy, proposing abolishing student loans, and suggesting a withdrawal from the World Trade Organization (WTO) sexy in an election campaign? You would not think so, but that is how Dr. Paul generated millions of votes in ‘08 and ‘12 and introduced an entire generation to the libertarian movement. Instead of just espousing politically expedient positions, like legalizing marijuana, the LP could make controversial stances key planks of its platform.

    Following the 2016 election, Mises President Jeff Deist made the compelling case that the LP needs to reallocate its resources into state and local contests. This was a pragmatic suggestion, considering it is highly unlikely that it could take on the two-party system and win the presidency. A couple of seats in state legislatures and a few city council seats nationwide can make a world of difference in the long-term – look at the socialists! It would be more effective than wasting millions of dollars on a vanity national campaign that does not even involve making it to the debate stage.

    A Purity Ring

    Do Libertarians need to wear purity rings? Do they need to sport a Very Murray Christmas sweater all year long? Do they need to recite Friedrich Hayek’s Road to Serfdom by memory? Much of the small-L crowd would prefer a Libertarian Party candidate to uphold the most basic principles of libertarianism, not the watered-down version that the mainstream media peddles. Being milquetoast is not the path to long-term electability or even sustainability. Sure, the duopoly in American politics is broken, but election results keep supporting the theory that the socialists have done a better job of taking advantage of the decrepit situation and are presently erecting hammers and sickles across the country.

    The Libertarian Party candidate in 2020 should be interesting to witness, so pass the Milton Friedman popcorn bowl.



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  3. #2
    A little too much navel gazing for my taste...no need to make this difficult.

    A - Free $#@! is popular, especially to a nation of retards.

    B - Freedom is NOT popular, for the same reason.

    C - Socialism is popular to the millions and millions of migrant invaders fleeing socialist failures to the south.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    A little too much navel gazing for my taste...no need to make this difficult.

    A - Free $#@! is popular, especially to a nation of retards.

    B - Freedom is NOT popular, for the same reason.

    C - Socialism is popular to the millions and millions of migrant invaders fleeing socialist failures to the south.
    no need to blame immigrants, half of Americans make less than $35,000. being poor is pretty normal now.

  5. #4
    Simple, IMV;


    Libertarianism = Freedom
    Socialism = Freebies

    America is saturated with post adolescent voters indoctrinated to expect
    government support cradle to grave, and should not be required to do anything,
    to receive that help, why on earth would they vote for freedom , freedom of choice, self reliance and
    self determination.
    We also have (now) generations of fat welfare recipients that wouldn't dream of
    getting off their asses to fend for themselves, thanks to the progressives.
    Last edited by Stratovarious; 11-14-2019 at 05:34 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    no need to blame immigrants, half of Americans make less than $35,000. being poor is pretty normal now.
    How many of those illegal aliens invading our borders did you say earned more than $35,000 in their 3rd world socialist utopias?



    Zero, nada, nein, nyet, that's right , NONE.



  7. #6
    Freedumb
    Truth is Fallacy, Fallacy is Evil.

  8. #7
    Because the majority of Americans love free stuff and hate freedom and liberty.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  9. #8
    Does that Milton Friedman popcorn come with gubment cheese on it?
    "The Patriarch"



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  11. #9
    The inevitability of democracy bringing about socialism is why it's clear that bringing about socialism was either the intended result of ratifying the US Constitution, or else proof of inexcusable naiveté on the part of those who did.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    no need to blame immigrants, half of Americans make less than $35,000. being poor is pretty normal now.
    Plus good luck ever getting an explanation from an immigration restrictionist of how their own favored policies aren't socialist.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    How many of those illegal aliens invading our borders did you say earned more than $35,000 in their 3rd world socialist utopias?



    Zero, nada, nein, nyet, that's right , NONE.


    How many of those illegal immigrants are eligible to vote?

    Zero, nada, nein, nyet, that's right, NONE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How many of those illegal immigrants are eligible to vote?

    Zero, nada, nein, nyet, that's right, NONE.

    How many of them vote, not nada, many vote, way too many to keep track of.

    How many collect welfare , MOST.

    How many do not belong here = ALL

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PRB View Post
    no need to blame immigrants, half of Americans make less than $35,000. being poor is pretty normal now.
    Poor Americans don't vote for communism at the rate the immigrants do.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How many of those illegal immigrants are eligible to vote?

    Zero, nada, nein, nyet, that's right, NONE.
    They cheat and so do liberal government workers.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Plus good luck ever getting an explanation from an immigration restrictionist of how their own favored policies aren't socialist.
    They aren't, socialism is welfare conducted by the state.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The inevitability of democracy bringing about socialism is why it's clear that bringing about socialism was either the intended result of ratifying the US Constitution, or else proof of inexcusable naiveté on the part of those who did.
    Use the right account for pushing monarchist tyranny, R3v.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They cheat and so do liberal government workers.
    Ah yes, the unsupported cliches.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  21. #18
    The LP has done it's level best to make Americans despise it and to undermine liberty candidates.
    When you add in the invasion and excessive immigration from socialist countries and the allure of free stuff it's not really mysterious why things have gone the way they have.
    Small "L" libertarians also do a very good job of driving away anyone who disagrees with them slightly in the conservative direction while pandering to those who violate orthodoxy in the socialist direction, this is doubly stupid because it is conservatives who are not well served by one of the mainstream parties while socialists have less reason than ever to be dissatisfied with the Demoncrats.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ah yes, the unsupported cliches.
    It's been proven many times.
    You are the one peddling unsupported cliches.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The inevitability of democracy bringing about socialism is why it's clear that bringing about socialism was either the intended result of ratifying the US Constitution, or else proof of inexcusable naiveté on the part of those who did.
    Nope, it was brought about by the circumvention of the Constitution, not the constitution , adherence to the constitution
    would have prevented our current condition.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How many of those illegal immigrants are eligible to vote?

    Zero, nada, nein, nyet, that's right, NONE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ah yes, the unsupported cliches.


  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Nope, it was brought about by the circumvention of the Constitution, not the constitution , adherence to the constitution
    would have prevented our current condition.
    Which part of the Constitution was circumvented?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which part of the Constitution was circumvented?
    What part of the constitution ushered in socialism?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    What part of the constitution ushered in socialism?
    I see. You can't find a part of the Constitution which was circumvented so deflect and ask about something else.

    The Constitution does allow people to choose their own representatives to the House and Senate. Congress shall have the power to make laws and collect taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I see. You can't find a part of the Constitution which was circumvented.

    The Constitution does allow people to choose their own representatives to the House and Senate. Congress shall have the power to make laws and collect taxes.
    LOL

    There have been uncountable words written regarding the circumventions of the Constitution, your stupid question isn't worth answering.
    But I'll give you a hint: There are limits placed in the Constitution on the Congressional powers to make laws and collect taxes.

    Try reading the Constitution for the first time in your life, it won't kill you.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The inevitability of democracy bringing about socialism is why it's clear that bringing about socialism was either the intended result of ratifying the US Constitution, or else proof of inexcusable naiveté on the part of those who did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which part of the Constitution was circumvented?
    lol
    What part of perf's post makes sense to you , and why .....

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    There have been uncountable words written regarding the circumventions of the Constitution, your stupid question isn't worth answering.
    But I'll give you a hint: There are limits placed in the Constitution on the Congressional powers to make laws and collect taxes.

    Try reading the Constitution for the first time in your life, it won't kill you.
    Income tax
    welfare
    bailouts
    a hundred alphabet agencies
    cps
    ebt food stamps
    sanctuary cities................

    There are a million examples of confiscatory taxes to pay for programs that no one
    asked for, I don't see a sincere bone in the bodies of zip or perf worth educating.



  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Simple, IMV;


    Libertarianism = Freedom
    Socialism = Freebies

    America is saturated with post adolescent voters indoctrinated to expect
    government support cradle to grave, and should not be required to do anything,
    to receive that help, why on earth would they vote for freedom , freedom of choice, self reliance and
    self determination.
    We also have (now) generations of fat welfare recipients that wouldn't dream of
    getting off their asses to fend for themselves, thanks to the progressives.

    ^this.


    In this age, hard for anyone to bring enough population to move without supporting populous demands including some freebies/socialist/prtectionist policies.
    Smart politicians know this and support things like universal healthcare, debt boosting big gummit spending..

    Donald Trump: Ron Paul Can't Get Elected President
    Feb 10, 2011

    Socialist Sanders supporters vow to support Trump if Bernie isn’t the nominee






    Related

    How did Bolsheviks manage to take over control of GOP?

    The Number of Democrats Showing Up at Trump Rallies Is Stunning


    US debt surpasses $23 trillion for first time


    07/12/2019
    FEDERAL SPENDING SMASHES RECORDS

    ENHANCED DEFICIT: BUDGET DEFICIT WIDENS 23%




  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    ^this.


    In this age, hard for anyone to bring enough population to move without supporting populous demands including some freebies/socialist/prtectionist policies.
    Smart politicians know this and support things like universal healthcare, debt boosting big gummit spending..

    Donald Trump: Ron Paul Can't Get Elected President
    Feb 10, 2011

    Socialist Sanders supporters vow to support Trump if Bernie isn’t the nominee






    Related

    How did Bolsheviks manage to take over control of GOP?
    So true, universal health care, and UBI Basic Income............lol
    What does all this free stuff mean ?
    Take from someone that works, and give it to those that wouldn't dream of it , give it
    to slugs so they'll vote for you.


  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The inevitability of democracy bringing about socialism is why it's clear that bringing about socialism was either the intended result of ratifying the US Constitution, or else proof of inexcusable naiveté on the part of those who did.
    Not really. The Framers hated democracy. It doesn't seem as though they were naive at all. How do you not know this? That's why they curbed democracy at every point. The Senate was originally chosen by state representative. The Constitution they ratified limited voting to white, male property owners. That's a pretty small slice of the population and it worked quite well for over 100 years. John Adams even thought this was too much democracy and wanted a monarchy.

    Here is what the author of the Preamble of the Constitution said. The guy didn't want non-business owners voting.

    "Nine-tenths of the people are at present freeholders... The time is not distant when this country will abound with mechanics and manufacturers who will receive their bread from their employers. Will such men be the secure and faithful guardians of liberty? Give the votes to people who have no property, and they will sell them to the rich who will be able to buy them"

    https://www.quotetab.com/quote/by-go...Y3g3Xcd2GdV.97

    Last edited by Krugminator2; 11-14-2019 at 07:25 PM.

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