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Thread: Why Do Elections Favor Socialists Over Libertarians?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You're average GOPer doesn't care for freedom any more than a Bolshie democrat.
    Now reconsider what you wrote in post #56 in light of this fact.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    You're average GOPer doesn't care for freedom any more than a Bolshie democrat.

    Trump won the primary, assuming no hank panky was going on, because the democrats have abandoned white working class people (to be fair, they have abandoned working class folks of all types) in exchange for an identity coalition of circus freaks.

    There's still enough of the old electorate around to make jobs the number one issue.


    No, he wasn't, not that I recall...but yeah, who knows as he ambles about all over the map, what might have been said.
    Okay. Look at it another was. Tulsi Gabbard is barely getting enough traction to get into the debates. Why is that? It's not because she's not socialist enough. Hint, it's the same reason Ron Paul struggled in the GOP primary. The MIC will not be denied.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Trump praised the Affordable Care Act?
    No. The Affordable Care Act is what we have here now. The Affordable Care Act also is not socialized medicine. Trump, like Bernie Sanders, wanted to repeal and replace that. Sanders openly said that he wanted to replace it with socialized medicine, while Trump, like Romney before him, refrained from saying openly what he wanted to replace it with.

    What Trump did was openly praise the socialized medicine of Canada and Scotland. And he did it right in one of the Republican debates.

    And he won that party's nomination while doing that.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 11-15-2019 at 09:35 AM.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    But I agree on your other points. I didn't remember all that but I'll take your word for it. As I told AF he was all over the map.
    He was, and still is, all over the map. His supporters may fall back on that as a way to avoid pinning him down as an all-out socialist. But at the very least, we can definitely say that he won the Republican primaries by being the candidate who was hardest to pin down, while defeating a field of opponents who ran to the right of him as more consistently anti-socialist than he was willing to be.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Trump won the primary, assuming no hank panky was going on...
    You mean besides the MSM giving him 100% of the publicity, to the point where every time they interviewed any of the other seventeen candidates, they asked all of them questions about Trump?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You mean besides the MSM giving him 100% of the publicity, to the point where every time they interviewed any of the other seventeen candidates, they asked all of them questions about Trump?
    Yeah besides that.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yeah besides that.
    Glad to hear you say that.

    If making Ron Paul into He Who Must Not Be Named was hanky panky, then clearly giving someone more publicity than everyone else combined is also hanky panky. I paid some attention to what the MSM was up to during the primaries...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tand-Up-Comedy

    ...and no candidate got their three questions' worth of publicity without ceding a third of their publicity to Trump. Every candidate had to answer questions about Il Douchebag.

    If denying someone coverage is hanky panky, drowning someone else in coverage is hanky panky too.

    Socialists win general elections because only socialists win primaries. I thought we already learned this.

    I can't believe anyone here can still pretend issues matter. We've all seen Republican primary voters. "I'm gonna vote for the winner of this Horse Race no matter how bad he is!"
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-15-2019 at 10:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  10. #68
    Because we have had career politicians in office. Even a career politician who complains about growing government isn’t sincere given that they spent most of their lives as part of the government. Also a lawyer makes their living off the State and when you have career politicians who are lawyers you end up with excessive regulations because as lawyers they want to pass as many laws as possible so they have something to litigate. The litigation is how they make their money.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Because we have had career politicians in office. Even a career politician who complains about growing government isn’t sincere given that they spent most of their lives as part of the government. Also a lawyer makes their living off the State and when you have career politicians who are lawyers you end up with excessive regulations because as lawyers they want to pass as many laws as possible so they have something to litigate. The litigation is how they make their money.
    True dat. But trump, the career politician he was not, had enough of a record during his life that it stuck out like a sore thumb. But wait, he “changed” to “republican” so get on board and act now before it’s too late! He’s “electable”, after all!
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    True dat. But trump, the career politician he was not, had enough of a record during his life that it stuck out like a sore thumb. But wait, he “changed” to “republican” so get on board and act now before it’s too late! He’s “electable”, after all!
    Non politicians are going to be inspired to run for office in the future because of 2016. The 2016 election is far far bigger than Donald Trump. Politics is about perception and perception of 2016 is going to lead to less career politicians in the future.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Non politicians are going to be inspired to run for office in the future because of 2016. The 2016 election is far far bigger than Donald Trump. Politics is about perception and perception of 2016 is going to lead to less career politicians in the future.
    It doesn’t matter. It wil be another waste of time and money.

    Until The People understand what true liberty really means and how it would benefit us all, republicans, democrats, and independent voters will still continue to vote as they always have while sacrificing liberty and wads of money for false security. Look at the past hundred years or so, for instance.

    The way politicians talk at the podium (rhetoric), lie, give in, along with common core public schools and colleges, media and whirl-wind unicorns and utopia... only a small few who understand will carry the torch as the majority, Democrats, indy’s, yes even republicans, attempt to put out its flame.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    It doesn’t matter. It wil be another waste of time and money.

    Until The People understand what true liberty really means and how it would benefit us all, republicans, democrats, and independent voters will still continue to vote as they always have while sacrificing liberty and wads of money for false security. Look at the past hundred years or so, for instance.

    The way politicians talk at the podium (rhetoric), lie, give in, along with common core public schools and colleges, media and whirl-wind unicorns and utopia... only a small few who understand will carry the torch as the majority, Democrats, indy’s, yes even republicans, attempt to put out its flame.
    With the 2016 election, non voters voted for Donald Trump. Non voters are more likely to vote for freedom because they were so upset at the system when their choices were only career politicians.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    With the 2016 election, non voters voted for Donald Trump. Non voters are more likely to vote for freedom because they were so upset at the system when their choices were only career politicians.
    But of course, most non voters are rank amateurs who seldom even look to see who's not getting publicity.

    In America, a No Confidence Vote can go either way. After the double nightmare of World War One and the Influenza Epidemic, Wilson strangled the economy by nationalizing entire industries. This led to Harding, who shifted power out of Washington and back to the people. A dozen years later, another recession led to FDR socialism.

    This financial house of cards we have right now isn't prosperity. This bubble is the Dead Cat Bounce from 2008, being feverishly prolonged by quantitative panic pumping from the Fed. When it pops this time, the FDR model will be pushed hard.

    The question is, can the Harding/Coolidge model be implemented without bloodshed?

    I know one thing: Confidence in government is almost certainly at a one hundred year low. People here read the MSM rhetoric and look at the polls, and they're convinced support for government is a mile wide. Well the Canadian River is a mile wide, too. But it's only an inch deep.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-15-2019 at 11:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    With the 2016 election, non voters voted for Donald Trump. Non voters are more likely to vote for freedom because they were so upset at the system when their choices were only career politicians.
    For the most part, voters and non do not care about facts and records. They only care about podium rhetoric and empty promises. The key to liberty in the future is to educate the ones coming up in this world. This is exactly what Ron Paul and other freedom advocates understand and preach.

    It is not elections that matter. It is the hearts and minds of people that matter.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Glad to hear you say that.

    If making Ron Paul into He Who Must Not Be Named was hanky panky, then clearly giving someone more publicity than everyone else combined is also hanky panky. I paid some attention to what the MSM was up to during the primaries...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tand-Up-Comedy

    ...and no candidate got their three questions' worth of publicity without ceding a third of their publicity to Trump. Every candidate had to answer questions about Il Douchebag.

    If denying someone coverage is hanky panky, drowning someone else in coverage is hanky panky too.

    Socialists win general elections because only socialists win primaries. I thought we already learned this.

    I can't believe anyone here can still pretend issues matter. We've all seen Republican primary voters. "I'm gonna vote for the winner of this Horse Race no matter how bad he is!"
    My thought on this is simple:

    The powers that be propped up Trump because they figured he was a sure loser against Hillary.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    For the most part, voters and non do not care about facts and records. They only care about podium rhetoric and empty promises. The key to liberty in the future is to educate the ones coming up in this world. This is exactly what Ron Paul and other freedom advocates understand and preach.
    The Bolshevik mob has control of the state propaganda organs, the media, the entertainment complex, the schools from kindergarten to graduate school, the internet and social media.

    "Education" of liberty ideas is basically forbidden in all realms.

    I'd like to hear how to accomplish that.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Glad to hear you say that.

    If making Ron Paul into He Who Must Not Be Named was hanky panky, then clearly giving someone more publicity than everyone else combined is also hanky panky. I paid some attention to what the MSM was up to during the primaries...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tand-Up-Comedy

    ...and no candidate got their three questions' worth of publicity without ceding a third of their publicity to Trump. Every candidate had to answer questions about Il Douchebag.

    If denying someone coverage is hanky panky, drowning someone else in coverage is hanky panky too.

    Socialists win general elections because only socialists win primaries. I thought we already learned this.

    I can't believe anyone here can still pretend issues matter. We've all seen Republican primary voters. "I'm gonna vote for the winner of this Horse Race no matter how bad he is!"
    All that is true, but not the complete story. It's not the most socialist candidate that wins. It's the most globalist / militaristic candidate that wins. Bernie Sanders was more socialist than Hilary but he lost. Tulsi is more socialist than Joe Biden from what I understand but she hasn't gotten a lot of traction. She also doesn't get as much press and Google has been caught suppressing information about her.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/fredcam.../#23823e2e2e8a

    In fact when SNL did it's most recent debate skit, even though Tulsi was in the debate she wasn't featured. But politicians that were polling lower than her were.



    So....can we all agree that the real issue isn't whether or not people like 'freedom" or "free stuff" but whether or not we still have a "free press?" What say ye @Anti Federalist?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    My thought on this is simple:

    The powers that be propped up Trump because they figured he was a sure loser against Hillary.
    I thought the same thing. Now I think we were underestimating the enemy.

    1. The sanest observation I've seen come out of this place is, they don't care who wins the general election because they chose the two contenders still standing at that point. As long as they can weed out the "unelectable quixotic kooks" during the primaries, and keep people convinced third party votes are thrown away by the people who cast them, why would they worry about the general election? Clinton might have cared if Trump beat her, but no one else who counted needed to.

    2. The Republican Drunken Monkey is nothing new. We may chuckle and go on our way when we read H.L. Mencken telling us people want to elect an idiot (a rich alpha idiot perhaps, but in any case, as dumb as the average voter). But they pay attention to such truths. Dubya was pure Drunken Monkey. He was the Establishment Drunken Monkey, but a Drunken Monkey nonetheless. Reagan leaned heavily toward Drunken Monkey, and filled his cabinet with a barrel of monkeys. Remember Al Haig? And Nixon, for all the trouble he went to to "appear presidential", was a total Drunken Monkey. Fact is, Republicans are suckers for Drunken Monkeys. They are amused by them, get a charge out of defending them, and the more socialism creeps in, the more hope they hold out for a Drunken Monkey Wrench in the works.

    3. If you were the Establishment, and you saw Ron Paul get the traction he did despite your best efforts to Unelectable Quixotic Kook him out of the race, what would you do? Would you put forth a tool who could play outsider, and do your best to convince voters you were scared of him?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-15-2019 at 11:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    My thought on this is simple:

    The powers that be propped up Trump because they figured he was a sure loser against Hillary.
    That's not just a thought. That's proven fact.

    https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...iper-strategy/

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015...ntial-run-2016

    So here's the question. How did the rank and file republican voters fall for it? Why were so many people willing to overlook Donald Trump's anti-gun, pro abortion, pro Clinton past? And not just McCain / Romney backing republicans. Hardcore "socialism is evil" republicans. Simply saying "people love socialism" doesn't answer it. Ultimately socialist Bernie Sanders lost to corporitist Hillary Clinton.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I thought the same thing. Now I think we were underestimating the enemy.

    1. The sanest observation I've seen come out of this place is, they don't care who wins the general election because they chose the two contenders still standing at that point. As long as they can weed out the "unelectable quixotic kooks" during the primaries, and keep people convinced third party votes are thrown away by the people who cast them, why would they worry about the general election? Clinton might have cared if Trump beat her, but no one else who counted needed to.

    2. The Republican Drunken Monkey is nothing new. We may chuckle and go on our way when we read H.L. Mencken telling us people want to elect an idiot (a rich alpha idiot perhaps, but in any case, as dumb as the average voter). But they pay attention to such truths. Dubya was pure Drunken Monkey. He was the Establishment Drunken Monkey, but a Drunken Monkey nonetheless. Reagan leaned heavily toward Drunken Monkey, and filled his cabinet with a barrel of monkeys. Remember All Haig? And Nixon, for all the trouble he went to to "appear presidential", was a total Drunken Monkey. Fact is, Republicans are suckers for Drunken Monkeys. They are amused by them, get a charge out of defending them, and the more socialism creeps in, the more hope they hold out for a Drunken Monkey Wrench in the works.

    3. If you were the Establishment, and you saw Ron Paul get the traction he did despite your best efforts to Unelectable Quixotic Kook him out of the race, what would you do? Would you put forth a tool who could play outsider, and so your best to convince voters you were scared of him?
    Great analysis!
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So here's the question. How did the rank and file republican voters fall for it? Why were so many people willing to overlook Donald Trump's anti-gun, pro abortion, pro Clinton past? And not just McCain / Romney backing republicans. Hardcore "socialism is evil" republicans. Simply saying "people love socialism" doesn't answer it. Ultimately socialist Bernie Sanders lost to corporitist Hillary Clinton.
    They love calling Democrats sheep, but Republicans are the real herd animals. They really do view the primary process as a horse race. They really don't want to vote for a loser, no matter how much better off we'd all be if they all did vote for a horse that the track touts all say can't win.

    They're incredibly easy to manipulate. No wonder the GOP doesn't need superdelegates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    My thought on this is simple:

    The powers that be propped up Trump because they figured he was a sure loser against Hillary.
    Agree. Trump was a hand grenade thrown into the GOP primary. They wanted him to turn it into a $#@!show and smear everyone. It worked. Remember all of the talk before that about how good the GOP primary field was? Remember when Hillary and other pundits greatest fear was Rand Paul? They took care of that.

    And we must add that the ratings were another factor. People loved the reality TV show. Making money is always an additional incentive.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That's not just a thought. That's proven fact.

    https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...iper-strategy/

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015...ntial-run-2016

    So here's the question. How did the rank and file republican voters fall for it? Why were so many people willing to overlook Donald Trump's anti-gun, pro abortion, pro Clinton past? And not just McCain / Romney backing republicans. Hardcore "socialism is evil" republicans. Simply saying "people love socialism" doesn't answer it. Ultimately socialist Bernie Sanders lost to corporitist Hillary Clinton.
    Trump was loud and outrageous. He said things that the majority of voters had yelled at their TV from time to time. He addressed issues like immigration that no one would touch. He related to Joe Sixpack.

    And we can never forget, in the purest and non-derogatory definition of the term, voters are extremely ignorant. And to make it worse, they think that they know everything.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    My thought on this is simple:

    The powers that be propped up Trump because they figured he was a sure loser against Hillary.
    I think they propped him up because it didn't matter which one won- 2nd verse, same as the first.

    Trump talked to the Clintons before he ran- my POV is that no matter who won, Hitlery was safe & the same BS would continue.
    There is no spoon.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I think they propped him up because it didn't matter which one won- 2nd verse, same as the first.

    Trump talked to the Clintons before he ran- my POV is that no matter who won, Hitlery was safe & the same BS would continue.
    If that was the case, they wouldn't be making such a fuss to get rid of him.

    I'm frankly amazed nobody has taken a shot at him yet.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  29. #85
    The presidency typically, more than usually, lasts 2 terms, unless something very drastic takes place. Knowing this, the people support 2 terms of a democrat, before figuring out that things really don’t get better, then decide it is time for republicans to take over for 2 terms, same downward spiral... back and forth, left, right, under the same structured corporate government and federal reserve.

    Bill served 2, GWB served 2, Obama served 2, it was clearly the republicans turn regardless of who it was. Trump supported Hillary’s bid to senate, which she won, on top of being friends with the Clintons. Trump was a shoe-in the democrat that he is, only stick an R after the name and everything is good to go. Rand and others being necessary nuisances, required for TV ratings and to appear “fair”.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    If that was the case, they wouldn't be making such a fuss to get rid of Bill Clinton.

    I'm frankly amazed nobody has taken a shot at him yet.
    Oh, wait, that's not what you said. You don't see the Clinton and Trump impeachments the same way at all. Clinton's impeachment was clearly a sideshow designed to fail to remove him in the Senate. You see it as a way to make Democrats hate and resent Republicans, a way to (ironically, and illustrative of their chutzpah) insulate Clinton from things like Koreagate by distracting the public from it, a pure circus.

    You don't see the Trump impeachment that way because... Why, exactly, don't you see them as being the exact same thing, again? Don't let me lie about this. I'm not totally clear on your concept.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-15-2019 at 12:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Oh, wait, that's not what you said. You don't see the Clinton and Trump impeachments the same way at all. Clinton's impeachment was clearly a sideshow designed to fail to remove him in the Senate. You see it as a way to make Democrats hate and resent Republicans, a way to (ironically, and illustrative of their chutzpah) insulate Clinton from things like Koreagate by distracting the public from it, a pure circus.

    You don't see the Trump impeachment that way because... Why, exactly, don't you see them as being the exact same thing, again? Don't let me lie about this. I'm not totally clear on your concept.
    Yah. This is clearly history repeating itself.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Oh, wait, that's not what you said. You don't see the Clinton and Trump impeachments the same way at all. Clinton's impeachment was clearly a sideshow designed to fail to remove him in the Senate. You see it as a way to make Democrats hate and resent Republicans, a way to (ironically, and illustrative of their chutzpah) insulate Clinton from things like Koreagate by distracting the public from it, a pure circus.

    You don't see the Trump impeachment that way because... Why, exactly, don't you see them as being the exact same thing, again? Don't let me lie about this. I'm not totally clear on your concept.
    The Clinton impeachment was designed to fail, it was theater, as you noted.

    In the case of Trump, I do not see it the same way because I think they will be successful.

    I think he will be removed or resign by the summer of 2020.

    Hard to tell what Machiavellian purpose that may serve, as there are so many.

    But it is clear to me the system is scared to death of Trump, more than likely because of that loose cannon, Drunken Monkey aspect.

    I know I can't figure him out...he's flip, flopped and flown on so many issues I don't know where the hell he is coming from, minute to minute, let alone day by day.

    I do know that presidents who run around bashing the Federal Reserve usually have very bad things happen to them.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 11-15-2019 at 01:19 PM.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The Clinton impeachment was designed to fail, it was theater, as you noted.

    In the case of Trump, I do not see it the same way because I think they will be successful.

    I think he will be removed or resign by the summer of 2020.

    Hard to tell what Machiavellian purpose that may serve, as there are so many.

    But it is clear to me the system is scared to death of Trump, more than likely because of that loose cannon, Drunken Monkey aspect.

    I know I can't figure him out...he's flip, flopped and flown on so many issues I don't know where the hell he is coming from, minute to minute, let alone day by day.
    My "Machievellian" feeling is that Trump engineered the impeachment in order to increase his chances of getting re-elected. There's no way in hell they will find 20 Republicans to vote on removal based on what they have so far.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    In the case of Trump, I do not see it the same way because I think they will be successful.
    Well, by the time it fails, we will all be older and wiser. Especially if we help each other keep an eye out for what's being overshadowed in the news...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...63#post6884963

    Certainly Biden's getting protection from the process.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-15-2019 at 01:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

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