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Thread: Official Impeachment Hearing Thread

  1. #1

    Official Impeachment Hearing Thread

    Day 1

    George Kent - Deputy Assistant Secretary of State.
    Ambassador Bill Taylor - US Diplomat in Ukraine.

    CNN Coverage:

    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 11-13-2019 at 10:49 AM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Ambassador Bill Taylor - US Diplomat in Ukraine.

    Don't want to watch? Short paraphrase of his opening statement:

    - I have an existing policy, and Trump doesn’t have the same priorities.

    More paraphrase of his opening statement, translated into RPF speak:

    - I represent a neoconservative MIC agenda that has been going on since the Cold War. It is very important. I have all kinds of officials who work with me on this agenda. We have to contain Russia, and this is why we need to contain Russia and support Ukraine. Russia is evil. Russia, Russia, Russia! My agenda should not be hindered by Trump. Trump wants Ukraine to help in some lame investigation into something that is a distraction from the official MIC neoconservative swamp policy. And this investigation is simply to benefit Trump politically, so it’s not kosher. Trump wants to stall the official agenda to benefit himself, so it’s a quid pro quo. And don’t forget, Russia!
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 11-13-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  4. #3
    "The majority time has expired..."

    Does that mean that when they get back from recess, Republicans will be asking the questions?

    edit: Yes, Brett Bear just said "We're getting ready for minority questioning".

    Well, that should be less boring.
    Last edited by Valli6; 11-13-2019 at 11:35 AM.

  5. #4
    Not going to bother watching it, but I'm sure theres going to be lot of drama.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  6. #5
    Ratcliffe mentions Rand's statement that Trump's being impeached for the exact same thing that Biden did. Ammbasador Taylor disagrees that it's the same, insisting Biden was getting rid of a corrupt prosecutor.

    I have the sound turned up while I do other things.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Valli6 View Post
    Ratcliffe mentions Rand's statement that Trump's being impeached for the exact same thing that Biden did. Ammbasador Taylor disagrees that it's the same, insisting Biden was getting rid of a corrupt prosecutor.

    I have the sound turned up while I do other things.
    Yeah I heard that. These so-called witnesses certainly have everything planned out and are good at giving their opinions. Whatever happened to facts?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quick superficial impression of appearances based on brief TV show sampling so far.
    Taylor, a former US military infantryman did not seem like your typical polished DC insider who excels in smooth taking in front of cameras and lights.
    GOP lawyer did a pretty good job grilling him.
    Adam Schiff's round big eyes seemed bit distracting for this reality show, he's almost like 'Ken Starr of Trump Impeachment' show bringing the boredom pie to the party. Although Kenny was a very smooth talker too and still managed to catpture GOP bases during Clinton impaechment show.

    First impressions are not always right but so far seemed like a tame show. Strating to wonder if Dems impeachment policy is similar to what has been Neocons policy vis-a-vis Syria.. that is to weaken Assad through battles of attrition but not to remove him. Time will tell.


    Related

    Risks for all sides as Trump impeachment hearings swing open

    Dems' lead lawyer known for prosecuting mobsters, swindlers ...

  9. #8
    (Paraphrased) Talking point today from several Democrats:

    “That prosecutor that Biden demanded be fired was really corrupt and bad, so Biden was supposed to do that. He was doing his duty.”

    (Paraphrased) Talking point today from several Republicans:

    “We gave more money and weapons to Ukraine than Obama, so it was Obama who slowed down the agenda. We are better neocons than you and Obama!”
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    ... I'm sure theres going to be lot of drama.
    Nope.

  12. #10
    Dems won't allow relevant witnesses

    Dems won't even allow the guy who started this entire thing to be a witness

    Too bad America will never know those facts.
    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    ...

    Too bad America will never know those facts.
    Not all facts are created equal though, so facts should be released to public on need to know basis in a responsible manner.

    Few years ago, people who leaked 'facts' to America were celeberated as 'heroes' but it's a different political climate now.

    ‘A Ton of Hate Mail and Death Threats’ Follow Trump’s Attack on Whistleblower’s Attorney
    November 7th, 2019
    lawandcrime.com/high-profile/a-ton-of-hate-mail-and-death-threats-follow-trumps-attack-on-whistleblowers-attorney/

    Edward Snowden Condemns Trump’s Mistreatment of Whistleblower Who Exposed Ukraine Scandal

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Few years ago, people who leaked 'facts' to America were celeberated as 'heroes' but it's a different political climate now.
    Are you $#@!ing serious? That isn't even close to the truth what-so-ever..

    A few years ago, people who leaked facts to America were threatened with execution by the media and political establishment.. they were celebrated as heroes by a minority of informed Americans.

    Now a CIA operative who is leaking lies to America is being celebrated by the media and political establishment. They are being called out as treasonous nutjobs by a minority of informed Americans.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Not all facts are created equal though, so facts should be released to public on need to know basis in a responsible manner.
    You are more than welcome to let me know which one of my facts are not indeed factual.

    See this is the problem with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Even when Ron Paul tells you the so called whistleblower is CIA, you still think its legit and pray for impeachment.

    Snowden is obviously not caught up on his information here as he thinks CIArmella is an actual whistleblower, when its really just a puppet of Brennan CIA.

    CIArmella doesn't even have a first hand account of what happened.

    None of this is credible but you just keep chugging along, don't ya?



    Now, back to my stated facts, which you are more than welcome to dispute.

    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Dems won't allow relevant witnesses

    Dems won't even allow the guy who started this entire thing to be a witness
    Last edited by eleganz; 11-13-2019 at 06:56 PM.
    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Are you $#@!ing serious? That isn't even close to the truth what-so-ever..

    A few years ago, people who leaked facts to America were threatened with execution by the media and political establishment.. they were celebrated as heroes by a minority of informed Americans.

    Now a CIA operative who is leaking lies to America is being celebrated by the media and political establishment. They are being called out as treasonous nutjobs by a minority of informed Americans.
    ^^^THIS^^^
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Are you $#@!ing serious? That isn't even close to the truth what-so-ever..

    A few years ago, people who leaked facts to America were threatened with execution by the media and political establishment.. they were celebrated as heroes by a minority of informed Americans.

    Now a CIA operative who is leaking lies to America is being celebrated by the media and political establishment. They are being called out as treasonous nutjobs by a minority of informed Americans.
    EM.

    I would concede that should have used term "celeberated as heroes by many pro-liberty folks", had audience here in mind when I said that:

    Rand: Snowden a Whistleblower. Not a traitor



    Now a question, how many "informed Americans" you see in below photo?

    Trump's suggestion on what to do with Snowden: kill him.
    'Prepare to die' Stone texted witness, trial jury hears






    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    You are more than welcome to let me know which one of my facts are not indeed factual.
    I was responding to your opinion with mine, I like many others also get carried away at times and conflate my 'opinions' with 'facts'.


    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    See this is the problem with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Even when Ron Paul tells you the so called whistleblower is CIA, you still think its legit and pray for impeachment.
    Prayer was for impeachment of neocons' founding fathers, you're not good at reading thoughts.

    But we may have some common ground as it is hard to disagree with Ron Paul.
    Let's pray together that Deep Neocons and nefarious money bagger lobbies (who buy fund/intimidate many otherwise decent America-First alpha patriots and turn them into their beta puppets for their globalist interventionist agenda) should be investigated by Congress.


    Forget The Impeachment Circus…Here’s What Congress Should Really Investigate! – Ron Paul Institute

    While the country is being dragged through the three ring impeachment circus – which is all about politics and nothing about policy, President Trump’s secret wars and interventions across the globe continue. Venezuela, Middle East, Lithuania…the intervention is on overdrive. But Congress has no interest in its Constitutional obligations when it comes to war. Political theater is far more exciting. Watch today’s Liberty Report:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH48AP5eRK0

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    I was responding to your opinion with mine, I like many others also get carried away at times and conflate my 'opinions' with 'facts'.
    Thats exactly my point. I stated facts, not an opinion.

    Here it is, which again, you are more than welcome to dispute.

    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Dems won't allow relevant witnesses

    Dems won't even allow the guy who started this entire thing to be a witness
    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Dems won't allow relevant witnesses

    Dems won't even allow the guy who started this entire thing to be a witness

    Too bad America will never know those facts.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    There is no case here, it wouldn't stand in court. It only has merit because dems control the committee.

    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0

  22. #19
    PREDICTION: Trump will be impeached (b/c Dems have the House), but he won't be removed from office (b/c GOPers have the Senate)

    All the talk about whether he committed an impeachable offense is political propaganda, for one side or the other.

    ...these are arguments for why people would like him to be impeached or not, dressed up as legal arguments.

    What constitutes an impeachable offense is a purely political question.

    The House can impeach the President for being a bad cello player, if they so please.

    All that said, I officially express my total indifference, and wish all parties concerned the very worst in all their affairs.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...these are arguments for why people would like him to be impeached or not, dressed up as legal arguments.

    What constitutes an impeachable offense is a purely political question.

    The House can impeach the President for being a bad cello player, if they so please.
    That is untrue, the founders specified what constituted an impeachable offense and it isn't unlimited.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is untrue, the founders specified what constituted an impeachable offense and it isn't unlimited.
    They didn't and, anyway, if the House "illegally" impeaches the President, what do you think will happen? The SCOTUS will never take a case like this, because it is in fact the kind of problem which can only be resolved by the (explicitly) political branches.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    They didn't and, anyway, if the House "illegally" impeaches the President, what do you think will happen? The SCOTUS will never take a case like this, because it is in fact the kind of problem which can only be resolved by the (explicitly) political branches.
    They did.
    They considered allowing impeachment for "maladministration" but decided that it could be used for differences of policy and only specified "High Crimes and misdemeanors" which has a specific common law definition.

    SCOTUS will take the case if Congress is obviously in flagrant violation of the Constitution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They did.
    They considered allowing impeachment for "maladministration" but decided that it could be used for differences of policy and only specified "High Crimes and misdemeanors" which has a specific common law definition.

    SCOTUS will take the case if Congress is obviously in flagrant violation of the Constitution.
    If Trump is impeached, and sues, and SCOTUS rules on the case, I'll tape myself eating a shoe, post it here, and resign from the forum forever.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If Trump is impeached, and sues, and SCOTUS rules on the case, I'll tape myself eating a shoe, post it here, and resign from the forum forever.
    I doubt it will get that far so you should be safe.
    The House may not be able to vote to impeach after making fools of themselves and the Senate will probably refuse to hold a trial.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I doubt it will get that far so you should be safe.
    The House may not be able to vote to impeach after making fools of themselves and the Senate will probably refuse to hold a trial.
    The House will likely impeach him within a few months.

    Trump could then sue if he pleased.

    And he might, but this would be for PR, not real results, his lawyers having explained to him the facts of life.

    Now, if Trump and the Senate GOP started talking seriously about packing the court, that would change their tune, and my prediction.

    But, short of that, the court won't touch this in a million years, precisely because they don't want to get blamed for the $#@!storm.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    SCOTUS will take the case if Congress is obviously in flagrant violation of the Constitution.
    No
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  31. #27
    Ron, Rand, and Massie all know its a sham.


    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Ron, Rand, and Massie all know its a sham.
    Anyone supporting Big Gov Trump is, in effect, whatever's in his heart, not a libertarian, even if his last name is Paul (or Massie).

    The only major libertarian with the balls to stand up to the Trumpian GOP lately has been Amash and he had to leave the party for it.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-13-2019 at 10:04 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If Trump is impeached, and sues, and SCOTUS rules on the case, I'll tape myself eating a shoe, post it here, and resign from the forum forever.
    Eating a shoe? George, is that you???
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Anyone supporting Big Gov Trump is, in effect, whatever's in his heart, not a libertarian, even if his last name is Paul (or Massie).

    The only major libertarian with the balls to stand up to the Trumpian GOP lately has been Amash and he had to leave the party for it.
    That's right.
    Any true libertarian would be supporting the communist Demoncrats and the communist deepstate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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