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Thread: Impeachment attempts by Democrats is malicious prosecution

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Do you honestly think the Democrats thought Trump had a chance to be elected?
    It was an insurance policy in the unlikely event that he would win. Youíd have to be an OJ juror to deny this took place at the very least since 2016 Election Day but they did it even before. Hillary was even accusing Donald Trump of Collusion during the Presidential debates and it was mentioned on the news during the campaign.
    Last edited by dude58677; 11-08-2019 at 05:17 PM.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's irrelevant, it is a judicial power assigned to Congress.
    Still no.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And you need to be reminded again?
    When you get like this, it rather accurately describes your behavior. You're saying that the legislature has judicial powers. Might as well say that the grass is blue and that the sky is green.


    Why would you think it's an insult? Take pride in it.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Still no.




    When you get like this, it rather accurately describes your behavior. You're saying that the legislature has judicial powers. Might as well say that the grass is blue and that the sky is green.


    Why would you think it's an insult? Take pride in it.
    Well Einstein it says ďHigh Crimes and misdemeanorsĒ. Now gee what would that be? Uhhhh Crimes!

    The Count: huh huh huh huh whatís a crime? Huh huh huh I donít get it huh huh huh

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Well Einstein it says “High Crimes and misdemeanors”. Now gee what would that be? Uhhhh Crimes!
    Impeachment doesn't declare the person to be guilty of the crime, it only removes them from office.


    THEN they would have to be charged and convicted in the judiciary in a trial in order to be punished for the crime. That would be impossible if both were judicial proceedings, because it would represent double jeopardy.

    You know, just like it says in the constitution. Try reading it. Here, I'll even help you read it:

    Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
    Last edited by TheCount; 11-08-2019 at 06:49 PM.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Impeachment doesn't convict the person of the crime, it only removes them from office.


    THEN they would have to be charged and convicted in the judiciary in a trial.

    You know, just like it says in the constitution. Try reading it. Here, I'll even help you read it:
    All impeachment’s start in the judicial committee of the Congress. Idiot! Legal actions don’t require jail time. Idiot!

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    All impeachment’s start in the judicial committee of the Congress. Idiot! Legal actions don’t require jail time. Idiot!
    The judicial committee is full of legislators, not judges.

    The judicial committee is not a court.

    The judicial committee is not part of the judiciary branch.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The judicial committee is full of legislators, not judges.

    The judicial committee is not a court.

    The judicial committee is not part of the judiciary branch.
    It's still exercises a judicial power in the case of impeachment.

    The Senate TRIAL is a trial, presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme court.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The judicial committee is full of legislators, not judges.

    The judicial committee is not a court.

    The judicial committee is not part of the judiciary branch.
    It’s judicial action inside the legislative branch, dumbass. I’m verbally abusive towards you because I’m sick and tired of these dishonest arguments you make. You know your arguments make no sense and then they drag on because you can’t understand a simple concept.
    Last edited by dude58677; 11-08-2019 at 06:56 PM.

  11. #39
    Impeachment is the House of Representatives filing charges against a government official. That is not a trial. It is not a judicial exercise. It is a preliminary investigation. There is no finding of guilt or innocence. That comes in the next phase- hearings and a trial in the US Senate. They hear evidence and decide by a vote of at least two thirds of any guilt or innocence.

    Clinton was impeached but not found guilty in the Senate. Nixon resigned before he could be impeached.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/i...-process-take/

    Impeachment is a political process, not criminal.

    Congress has no power to impose criminal penalties on impeached presidents or officials. However criminal courts could try to punish officials if they are believed to have committed crimes.

    "There isn't any judicial review of impeachment decisions, so Congress just needs to be satisfied that Trump committed high crimes or misdemeanors," Jens David Ohlin, a law professor and associate dean at Cornell Law School said.

    "They are the ultimate judge of what meets that standard."

    Impeachment therefore is at the crossroads of politics and the law. "There's no requirement that the president must have been indicted" for a crime, Ohlin added.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-08-2019 at 07:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Impeachment is the House of Representatives filing charges against a government official. That is not a trial. It is not a judicial exercise. It is a preliminary investigation. There is no finding of guilt or innocence. That comes in the next phase- hearings and a trial in the US Senate. They hear evidence and decide by a vote of at least two thirds of any guilt or innocence.

    Clinton was impeached but not found guilty in the Senate. Nixon resigned before he could be impeached.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/i...-process-take/
    It is like (not the same as but like) a Grand Jury, it is absolutely a judicial power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    It’s judicial action inside the legislative branch, dumbass. I’m verbally abusive towards you because I’m sick and tired of these dishonest arguments you make. You know your arguments make no sense and then they drag on because you can’t understand a simple concept.
    He understands, he just wants to confuse others.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The judicial committee is full of legislators, not judges.

    The judicial committee is not a court.

    The judicial committee is not part of the judiciary branch.
    It’s judicial action inside the legislative branch, dumbass. I’m verbally abusive towards you because I’m sick and tired of these dishonest arguments you make. You know your arguments make no sense and then they drag on because you can’t understand a simple concept.
    What he said makes perfect sense, and it was no cause to get upset.

    Impeachment gives the Senate a chance to remove someone from office. To put them in jail, the judicial branch of the government must then indict that person.

    That's all he said. It also sums up why impeachment couldn't possibly be a bill of attainder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He understands, he just wants to confuse others.
    The only way that explanation could leave anyone confused is if they just want to be confused.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What he said makes perfect sense, and it was no cause to get upset.

    Impeachment gives the Senate a chance to remove someone from office. To put them in jail, the judicial branch of the government must then indict that person.

    That's all he said. It also sums up why impeachment couldn't possibly be a bill of attainder.



    The only way that explanation could leave anyone confused is if they just want to be confused.
    We’re talking about malicious prosecution. When did I say anything about attainer?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is like (not the same as but like) a Grand Jury, it is absolutely a judicial power.
    No, it is not like a Grand Jury. Repeating false information again and again does not make it any more true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What he said makes perfect sense, and it was no cause to get upset.

    Impeachment gives the Senate a chance to remove someone from office. To put them in jail, the judicial branch of the government must then indict that person.

    That's all he said. It also sums up why impeachment couldn't possibly be a bill of attainder.



    The only way that explanation could leave anyone confused is if they just want to be confused.
    This isn't impeachment because the rules of impeachment aren't being followed, it will be an attainder.
    And impeachment is absolutely a judicial power granted to Congress and is subject to all the rules of any judicial proceeding.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    We’re talking about malicious prosecution. When did I say anything about attainer?
    Prosecution is a judicial branch process. Are you sure there are laws of the sort that could possibly apply to the Congress of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And impeachment is absolutely a judicial power granted to Congress and is subject to all the rules of any judicial proceeding.
    The Constitution doesn't say that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    No, it is not like a Grand Jury. Repeating false information again and again does not make it any more true.
    Yes it is, it is like an indictment and then the Senate holds a trial to convict.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes it is, it is like an indictment and then the Senate holds a trial to convict.
    But it doesn't convict, it removes. It isn't a finding of guilt admissible in court. It cannot put anyone in jail.

    How many times do you think that should be repeated before everyone gives up and lets you have the last word?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Prosecution is a judicial branch process. Are you sure there are laws of the sort that could possibly apply to the Congress of the United States?
    Except that the Constitution gives it to Congress in the case of impeachment.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Constitution doesn't say that.
    I doesn't say it isn't either, it just says impeachment is in the hands of Congress.
    Everyone knew it was a judicial power, that is why the Senate holds a TRIAL presided over by the Chief Justice.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 11-08-2019 at 08:11 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    But it doesn't convict, it removes. It isn't a finding of guilt admissible in court. It cannot put anyone in jail.
    It does convict but its sentencing power is limited to removal from office.
    6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    7: Judgment in Cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    It’s judicial action inside the legislative branch, dumbass
    No it's not, just like the intelligence committee is not an intelligence agency within the legislative branch and the armed forces committee is not a military force within the legislative branch.


    The judiciary committee is not a part of the judicial branch and does not have judicial powers. They have legislative powers derived from article one.


    Repeating yourself ten more times will not make you any more correct or any less ignorant.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Prosecution is a judicial branch process. Are you sure there are laws of the sort that could possibly apply to the Congress of the United States?



    The Constitution doesn't say that.
    Read this Einstein! https://www.cato.org/publications/co...t-not-politics
    Last edited by dude58677; 11-08-2019 at 08:19 PM.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Except that the Constitution gives it to Congress in the case of impeachment.
    Impeachment is not a judicial proceeding. It is a legislative proceeding.


    Try reading the Constitution.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No it's not, just like the intelligence committee is not an intelligence agency within the legislative branch and the armed forces committee is not a military force within the legislative branch.


    The judiciary committee is not a part of the judicial branch and does not have judicial powers. They have legislative powers derived from article one.
    Suppose the House Agriculture Committee has $#@! on their boots?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    High Crimes and Misdemeanors you idiot!
    Your boss can decide you've committed a crime and fire you, but that's not a judicial proceeding either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No it's not, just like the intelligence committee is not an intelligence agency within the legislative branch and the armed forces committee is not a military force within the legislative branch.


    The judiciary committee is not a part of the judicial branch and does not have judicial powers. They have legislative powers derived from article one.


    Repeating yourself ten more times will not make you any more correct or any less ignorant.
    It is a prosecution and a trial that results in conviction or acquittal.
    That is a judicial power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Impeachment is not a judicial proceeding. It is a legislative proceeding.


    Try reading the Constitution.
    It is a judicial proceeding, you should try reading the Constitution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is a judicial proceeding, you should try reading the Constitution.
    Does the Judicial Branch do it? Yes or no.

    Does anyone get fined or jailed at the end? Yes or no.

    Are the net results substantially different from anyone strongly suspected of committing a crime getting fired? Yes or no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is a judicial proceeding, you should try reading the Constitution.
    Link to the Constitution saying it is a judicial proceeding?


    https://www.famous-trials.com/johnson/487-constitution

    The Constitution, Article II, Section 4:

    The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

    The Constitution, Article I, Section 3:

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    Judgment in Cases of Impeachments shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust, or Profit under the United States, but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment, and Punishmnet, according to Law.
    The House of Representatives...shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    ARTICLE I, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 5
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-08-2019 at 08:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Does the Judicial Branch do it? Yes or no.
    The Chief Justice presides.
    But that wouldn't even be needed to make it a judicial proceeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Does anyone get fined or jailed at the end? Yes or no.
    They get convicted and punished.
    Are you going to admit you were just plain wrong about the conviction part since it is specified in the Constitution?

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Are the net results substantially different from anyone strongly suspected of committing a crime getting fired? Yes or no.
    Yes, the target is also disqualified to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States.
    Did you even read the part of the Constitution I posted?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Link to the Constitution saying it is a judicial proceeding?


    https://www.famous-trials.com/johnson/487-constitution
    It doesn't say so because it isn't necessary, everyone knew what it was.
    But it does contain words that prove it is one:

    6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    7: Judgment in Cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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