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Thread: The long-predicted conflict between religious and secular Jews has now started

  1. #1

    The long-predicted conflict between religious and secular Jews has now started

    It looks like Israel will be heading to a third election. It seems both sides, Netanyahu’s right and Gantz’s left-center cannot get the 61 votes needed to get a majority in the Knesset. There is one villain in this, and one victor.

    The reason Netanyahu could not get a victory is that Avigdor Lieberman refuses to throw his weight behind a Netanyahu coalition, unless the special privileges tendered to the religious right are done away with. For years, the religious right have wrested a lot of concessions from the Israeli state, such as draft exemptions and control of marriage.

    Secular Israelis complain that Haredim take advantage of social welfare but do not contribute to the military or the economy. - The Conversation
    And then there are the marriage laws:
    The Israeli government has granted authority over marriage only to the Orthodox rabbinate, not Reform, Conservative or any other more liberal denomination. And the Orthodox rabbinate’s strict rules bar many secular and Reform Jews from getting married at all. - Washington Post
    The attitude of some of the Orthodox Rabbis towards the non-Orthodox can be incomprehensible. Israel’s Chief Rabbi would not refer to the Pittsburgh synagogue – where the massacre occurred last year – as a synagogue, as it was not Orthodox.
    Israel’s Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi David Lau on Sunday condemned the killing of 11 American Jews in the Conservative Tree of Life Synagogue, but seemed to equivocate on calling the house of worship a synagogue, instead terming it “a place of clear Jewish character.” - Times of Israel
    The secular Israelis are getting fed up of this. Finally, Avigdor Lieberman is standing up to this insanity, but in doing so, he has made a right-wing coalition impossible. However, the religious feel they have a divinely inspired obligation to hold fast. No compromise is possible.
    The long-predicted conflict between religious and secular Jews has now started.
    The Blue and White (left-center) alliance cannot form a coalition for analogous reasons. A unity gov’t of both coalitions has been refused by Gantz, who refuses to work with Netanyahu.
    The “villain” in this is the intransigence of the religious parties who refuse to budge. They will not yield on religious law. This is nothing new. In 1947, Ben Gurion made deep concessions to the religious for fear that they would sink Israel’s case in the UN. What is amazing is that the religious were willing to do so.
    Going back to 1917:
    Weitzman was afraid they might boycott the elections and create a political body of their own, which, Weitzman wrote, “cannot but have a negative effect on the negotiations between the Zionist Organization and the British Government, and on the opinion of politicians throughout the world.” - Strangeside: Israel’s Status Quo Agreement
    The “victor” in this disaster are the Arab parties.
    Neither side in Israeli politics wants to make a coalition government with the Arab Joint List, as the party is non-Zionist. No Zionist party – left or right – has ever formed a formal coalition with Arab parties (though individual Arabs have served with Labor or Likud, and some Christian Arabs have taken a Zionist view).
    The Arabs have claimed that this historical refusal to consider Arabs for a coalition is evidence that Israeli “democracy” is a total sham. But truth be known, there is no way that a Zionist state could incorporate anti-Zionists into the government leadership; and vice-versa, no way that an Arab would want to be associated with any Israeli administration pressing a pro-Zionist agenda.
    As long as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict remains unresolved and Israel is periodically involved in military operations against Palestinian targets or other terrorist targets such as Hezbollah — be they in the Gaza Strip, the West Bank or Lebanon — no Israeli-Arab politician can be expected to accept the ministerial responsibility that comes with belonging to the cabinet. - Ha’aretz
    So, historically, the Arab citizens have seen the futility of voting, since no matter who wins, the Arab parties will be outside of real power, and will be relegated to token seats in the Knesset. Israel has not had to worry about them that much. Those few who do serve in the Knesset are trotted out as evidence that Israeli is a democracy – with little explanation that their influence is limited.
    No longer!
    After the first election this year failed to produce a result, the Arab parties finally impressed upon the Arab-Israeli voters that now they had a chance to make a change. Now was the time to vote.
    … Israel’s Arab citizens [are] closer to the center of power than ever before and strengthen their ability to influence the national agenda. (snip)
    The increased turnout among Arab voters propelled the bloc to a strong showing and may have denied Netanyahu the right-wing coalition he had desperately sought. - Associated Press
    Now that the Arab Joint List smells blood, a third election may only make the situation worse, as the reluctant Arabs finally realize their votes do count.
    The Arab are close to a position where they can permanently paralyze the Israeli government. The Israeli right wing has feared this for a long time, and has tried taking measures to stop this by having some of the Arab politicians barred from running. Their Supreme Court has overruled this.
    The next election will only fare worse. I suspect a third election will only increase the Arab turnout.
    There is a famous historical precedent for this, and it does not bode well for Israeli Zionists.
    In 1801, Britain annexed a rather hostile Ireland. In doing so, they thought they would solve the Irish problem by agreeing to give the Irish proper representation. The prior autonomous Irish parliament was top heavy with anti-Catholic members – thanks to the Penal Laws - and the British thought they might pacify things by finally giving Irish Catholics some rights in a Union.
    But the Irish didn’t want equal rights per se, they wanted Britain out of their country.
    It did not take long for the Irish to realize that they could paralyze the British Parliament with an Irish voting bloc. Irish Parliamentarians like Daniel O’Connell, and Charles Parnell became famous in the history of 19th century politics, so much so that the fame of Irish politicking made it to America. Here in the USA, Irish machine politics ran New York, Boston and Chicago well into the 20th century.

    In America, as early as 1854, the ignorant Irish hod-carrier ... made it apparent to all that he must be politically reckoned with; yet fifteen years before that we hardly knew what an Irishman looked like. - Twain: Concerning The Jews
    Until JFK, maybe an Irish Catholic could not be elected president, but the machine(s) were powerful enough to determine who could and who could not be president. In the 1920s, William MacAdoo – who was friendly to the KKK - was denied a nomination to run as the Democratic candidate, thanks to the Catholic vote.
    What distinguishes Irish machine politics from Israeli Arab politics is that they set limited goals. Tammany Hall wanted equality, not to overthrow the system. Tammany was quite ready to encourage assimilation into the American system. In the UK, the Irish wanted to separate Ireland from Britain; they never denied Britain’s right to exist.
    This is not so with a lot of Israeli-Arabs, who harbor anti-Zionist opinions.

    More at: https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...stalemate.html

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor Liberman is considering a return to the right-wing bloc, which would give Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a 63-seat governing majority and a coalition similar to the one he had before this election year.

    New Right co-chairwoman Ayelet Shaked has been mediating between Liberman and haredi parties Shas and UTJ to facilitate a right-wing government and avoid a third election in less than a year.
    Shaked talked to the leaders of the haredi factions about ways they can compromise on matters of religion and state and said she believes “the gaps can be bridged and we can establish a narrow right-wing coalition.”

    One indication that Liberman is weighing this option seriously is that he canceled Monday’s Yisrael Beytenu faction meeting, which he usually uses as an opportunity to hold a press conference.

    A source in the party said that Liberman is formulating a “final decision” about his party’s position in the current impasse in coalition negotiations. He plans to consult with current and past MKs as well as Yisrael Beytenu members and make a decision by the end of the week.

    Liberman has insisted publicly up to this point that he wants a unity government based on Likud and Blue and White, even if Yisrael Beytenu is left out of it.

    Yisrael Beytenu left a right-wing coalition in late 2018, which was one of the catalysts of early elections, and has major policy differences with Shas and UTJ on which they have thus far refused to compromise, such as passing a law to increase haredi enlistment to the IDF.

    More at: https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Li...alition-606842
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is leading the country to a third election in less than a year, Yisrael Beytenu chairman Avigdor Liberman warned in a Facebook post on Sunday.

    “The nation will not forgive him,” Liberman wrote. Liberman pointed out that his party has called for a national-unity government since the September 17 election.

    Netanyahu leads a 55-seat bloc of religious and right-wing parties, and if Liberman were to join them, there would be a governing majority and an election could be avoided. However, Liberman has said he will only be in a government based on Likud and Blue and White, which will push for greater haredi (ultra-Orthodox) IDF enlistment and other bills that the religious parties in Netanyahu’s bloc oppose. He also refused to join a Netanyahu-led government in May, and that refusal was part of the impetus for the second election this year.

    Liberman blamed Netanyahu for the political impasse, pointing to a plan for a unity government that he presented to the prime minister last month and saying that the Likud has ignored him.

    While speaking at the kick-off event of the Christian Media Summit and the inauguration of the Friends of Zion Museum’s media center, Netanyahu said, perhaps sarcastically, “we are in a pre-election period.”

    In his plan, Netanyahu would be first in a rotation for the premiership with Blue and White leader Benny Gantz, but Netanyahu would not automatically bring the whole right-wing bloc with him.

    “Netanyahu is holding on to the haredi-messianic bloc for personal reasons only... the attempt to hold both sides of the stick, to negotiate for a unity government with the haredi-messianic bloc and to be first in a rotation shows with certainty that all the responsibility for paralyzing the institutions of the government and a third election will be on Netanyahu, and only Netanyahu,” Liberman said.

    But Liberman has also ruled out working with Blue and White on some of its policies that it seeks to promote even before there is a government.

    “Yisrael Beytenu rejected different offers it received for unilateral moves that could harm the negotiations to form a government,” he said, “such as supporting a bill to prevent an MK with an indictment against him to be a candidate for prime minister, or to replace the Knesset speaker in this interim time.”

    Liberman said he opposes “controversial, unilateral moves” before a coalition is formed, and Yisrael Beytenu does not support “personal” bills, like the one that would target Netanyahu if he is indicted.

    A 103FM poll showed on Thursday that if there is a third election, 52% of voters would blame Netanyahu, and only 27% would blame Blue and White’s leaders, Gantz or Yair Lapid, while 21% blame Liberman.

    UTJ senior MK Moshe Gafni said a third election would be disastrous, and it would be Liberman’s fault.

    “The health system is crashing from lack of funds,” Gafni told Army Radio.

    In reference to Liberman, Gafni said: “For a year, Liberman hasn’t gone left or right. He is on the fence and in the meantime, the country is paralyzed. It’s too bad that the media is afraid to talk about the person to blame for this situation. His name is Liberman.”

    As for calls for the haredim to be flexible, Gafni said that he could compromise on jobs – he has long been Knesset Finance Committee chairman – but not on matters of ideology.

    Also Sunday, New Right leaders Naftali Bennett and Ayelet Shaked warned that a third election would damage the Right.

    “A third round of elections would crush the right-wing bloc at historic levels,” Bennett warned on Army Radio.

    The comments came the day after Bennett said he would free Netanyahu of any obligation to him and the New Right to avoid another election.

    Similarly, Shaked told Army Radio that another election is “terrible for Israel, and it’s also bad for the Right. In the last election, [the Right] had 61 seats without Liberman, now we have 55. The polls show the public doesn’t want a third election and if, God forbid, we get there, the Right is in danger.”

    As such, Shaked added, the only possibilities are a unity government, in which Gantz and Netanyahu reach an agreement on who goes first in a rotation, or that Liberman returns to the right-wing bloc, to “bring great achievements for his voters and the haredim will have to compromise.”

    More at: https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Th...an-says-606712
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Israel's Premier Benjamin Netanyahu said Friday that Naftali Bennett would be appointed defence minister and their parties would unite, as the political system remained deadlocked after two inconclusive elections.Netanyahu, who has so far failed to form a coalition after a September 17 poll, had in the past refused to give the security-oriented Bennett this coveted portfolio.
    But wary of his main challenger Benny Gantz attempting to collect the support of 61 lawmakers necessary to form a coalition and become prime minister himself, the incumbent has changed course.
    In doing so, he effectively locked in the three lawmakers of Bennett's New Right to his ruling Likud party.
    A statement by Likud said that Netanyahu had "offered to appoint (Bennett) as defence minister, and Naftali Bennett accepted the offer".
    "Bennett agreed that if a new government is formed" without a third election, "a different person will be appointed defence minister", the statement read.
    The two also agreed that the New Right -- formed by Bennett and former justice minister Ayelet Shaked -- would join Likud to become a combined force, the statement said.
    They will "commit to act as a joint faction throughout the current parliamentary term", it added.
    Bennett did not comment on the move, but Shaked said her party had been offered a choice of the defence ministry on its own or two lesser ministries.
    The choices available for the latter were agriculture, diaspora and welfare, Shaked said.
    "In a joint decision we agreed that Bennett will be appointed defence minister until a new government is formed," she said on Twitter.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/israel-pm-app...175557968.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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