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Thread: Trump has deployed 14,000 additional troops to the Middle East since May

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No, that is a lie. From 2017 until now there has been an upward trend of troop levels in combat zones.
    No, by your own numbers the trend was DOWN until the 14,000.





    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ALL troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria are excluded from the report.

    You have the link. You posted it. Did you read it? Did you open the spreadsheet? Go look at it.
    Even if you are right YOUR numbers show a decline other than the 14,000.
    And we know Trump has withdrawn 2,000 from Afghanistan this year which they just told us about.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Not there may be more troop movements, there were more troop movements, and we know what they were and we know that they were increases in troop levels, not decreases. My estimate is a lower estimate, not an upper estimate.
    Link?
    We know now that they withdrew 2,000 from Afghanistan this year and they may have withdrawn more from other places that we don't know about yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Trump and Trumpkins have consistently lied to us about troop withdrawals and troop levels, and it has always been in a downward direction. Had there been any more withdrawals, they would be Trumpeted loudly.
    Trump has been withdrawing troops and only the deployments to compromise and avoid war with Iran changed the trend.
    And we know that they aren't necessarily trumpeted loudly because we only just found out about the 2,00 Trump removed from Afghanistan this year.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    They assume the best, not the worst, as I said. For the sake of simplicity they ignore other troop deployments and rotations.
    They assume the worst.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That is a lie.

    His first surge of 5700 troops (your numbers) began in 2017 and continued into 2018.

    The current surge of 14,000 additional troops occurred in 2019.
    First he withdrew about 1,000 from Afghanistan, then he sent 5,700 or so but the trend was still reduction that removed about 7,555 overall until the compromise to avoid war with Iran.
    Now he is going to remove more faster.

    The exact opposite of what you say is true. The apparent reduction of troop levels during the first 6 months of 2017 is the outlier, and the steady increase of troop levels is the trend over the whole of his presidency.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    He has said a lot of things. How many times has he announced a Syria withdrawal? How many times has he announced an Iraq withdrawal? How many times has he announced an Afghanistan withdrawal?
    Syria is happening right now in spite of the attempts to prevent it and he has been removing 2,000 troops from Afghanistan this year with more set to go and then all of them when the negotiations are done.
    Iraq we don't know about but he might be drawing down there just like the 2,000 from Afghanistan we didn't know about until now.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I don't care who else he is hiding them from. The American people deserve to know where their military is and what it is doing. They are not real time numbers; they are quarterly reports showing lagging, not leading number.
    That's trivial anyway, what matters is that he has been trying to bring the troops home and will do so even more now.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You have absolutely no proof that is true.
    I have posted the proof over and over.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The Secretary of Defense said they would continue operations against IS and the VP said they were going to get around to beginning ceasefire talks with the eventual aim of bringing them home.

    Neither said anything about weeks, beyond getting them moved from Iraq to Qatar and Kuwait.

    This is all from your links. Don't you read this stuff you post?
    The quote about continuing operations was from before Iraq said they couldn't stay.
    They can't continue operations if they aren't staying in Iraq.

    Iraq’s defence minister has said after meeting U.S. Defence Secretary Mark Esper that American forces withdrawing from Syria to Iraq will leave the country within four weeks.
    Defence Minister Najah al-Shammari made the remarks to The Associated Press on Wednesday, following a meeting with Esper, who arrived in Baghdad a day to discuss the troops.
    He says that the American troops crossing from Syria are “transiting” in Iraq and will then head either to Kuwait, Qatar or the United States.

    More at: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/m...n-4-weeks.html

    They aren't needed in Kuwait or Qatar so those would just be additional stops on the way home.



    They are coming home.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nobody in that article said anything about U.S. troops going to the U.S. but the Iraqi defense minister. And that appears to have been wishful thinking.

    Iraqís military said Tuesday that American troops leaving northeastern Syria donít have permission to stay in Iraq in a statement that appeared to contradict Esper, who has said that all U.S. troops leaving Syria would continue to conduct operations against the Islamic State group from Iraq to prevent its resurgence in the region.
    You keep making up spin off the top of your head, stating it as fact, and linking to articles that flatly deny every word.

    Tell us more about how we all have a derangement syndrome, and you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Nobody in that article said anything about U.S. troops going to the U.S. but the Iraqi defense minister. And that appears to have been wishful thinking.



    You keep making up spin off the top of your head, stating it as fact, and linking to articles that flatly deny every word.

    Tell us more about how we all have a derangement syndrome, and you don't.
    Esper said the stuff about continuing operations before the meeting, he wanted to talk the Iraqis into it.
    After the meeting the Iraqis said they didn't agree and the troops would be leaving in four weeks.

    They are leaving and coming home.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Esper said the stuff about continuing operations before the meeting, he wanted to talk the Iraqis into it.
    After the meeting the Iraqis said they didn't agree and the troops would be leaving in four weeks.

    They are leaving and coming home.
    Making up spin and stating it as gospel again?

    Do you expect us to believe "operations against IS" cannot be conducted from Qatar and Kuwait? Do you think your credibility is better than Esper's?

    Well, you're learning. At least you didn't post even more articles contradicting what you just said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Making up spin and stating it as gospel again?

    Well, you're learning. At least you didn't post even more articles contradicting it.
    You are the one making up spin and denying the facts.

    Keep living in your fantasy world, it makes it so much easier on me.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are the one making up spin and denying the facts.

    Keep living in your fantasy world, it makes it so much easier on me.
    Is this your silly-assed way of saying you'll continue to post unverified accusations about me until I let you have the last word?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Making up spin and stating it as gospel again?

    Do you expect us to believe "operations against IS" cannot be conducted from Qatar and Kuwait? Do you think your credibility is better than Esper's?

    Well, you're learning. At least you didn't post even more articles contradicting what you just said.
    IS is not in or adjacent to Qatar and Kuwait and the operations discussed were to be crossing into Syria which does not border Qatar or Kuwait.
    The Pentagon had no plans or use for the troops from Syria in Qatar or Kuwait, they will be coming home, they may make some stops along the way but they are coming home.

    Try reading this slowly, maybe it will penetrate:

    Al-Shammari on Wednesday said he and Esper agreed that American troops leaving Syria would simply be "transiting" through Iraq before moving on to Kuwait, Qatar, or home to the US, the AP reported.
    Al-Shammari added that this transition would take place "within a time frame not exceeding four weeks," as cited by the AP.
    It was not clear where the troops would be deployed next. The US Department of Defense has not responded to Business Insider's request for confirmation on Esper and al-Shammari's discussions.


    Trump has said one of his reasons for withdrawing from northeastern Syria is to end so-called forever wars in the Middle East and bring troops home. Deploying them to Iraq would not fulfill this pledge.
    Earlier Wednesday, Esper said the US had no plans to leave troops in Iraq "interminably," the AP reported. He has also met with the country's prime minister, Adel Abdul Mahdi.

    The US has more than 5,000 troops in Iraq, but it has attempted to keep the numbers low over political sensitivities after the US occupation during the 2003 war, the AP reported.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/iraq-says-us-...121601402.html

    Not only are the troops from Syria not staying in Iraq but Esper is now talking about removing the rest of our troops from Iraq.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, by your own numbers the trend was DOWN until the 14,000.
    How do you know that? The numbers are secret.

    What's incontrovertible is that Trump has increased the number of troops in every warzone. Everything beyond that is speculation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Even if you are right YOUR numbers show a decline other than the 14,000.
    Maybe. Who knows. It's secret because the numbers are just so good that we couldn't handle them if they told us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And we know Trump has withdrawn 2,000 from Afghanistan this year which they just told us about.
    Maybe. Is the 2,000 part of the 14,000 or not part of the 14,000?




    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Link?
    US special forces secretly deployed to assist Saudi Arabia in Yemen conflict
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8335481.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We know now that they withdrew 2,000 from Afghanistan this year and they may have withdrawn more from other places that we don't know about yet.
    Maybe. Maybe they have invented a way to spin straw into gold.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump has been withdrawing troops
    Repeating yourself won't make it true.

    The fact is that troop levels are up. There is no evidence to suggest that troop levels were lower because Trump hid those numbers from us. We don't know what combat zone troop levels were in 2017 or 2018, but we know what they are now.





    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They assume the worst.
    No, the best. They assume that the Pentagon and the White House are telling us the truth, which is a terrible assumption to make.

    Everyone knows that special units are never counted in those numbers.





    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    First he withdrew about 1,000 from Afghanistan, then he sent 5,700 or so but the trend was still reduction that removed about 7,555 overall until the compromise to avoid war with Iran.
    -1000
    +5700

    Is not a reduction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Now he is going to remove more faster.
    Maybe. Maybe he's doing this. Maybe he's doing that. Maybe your mommy and daddy still love you. Maybe you'll get a pony for Christmas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm going to need to be told the details before I accept the narrative about this.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    IS is not in or adjacent to Qatar and Kuwait and the operations discussed were to be crossing into Syria which does not border Qatar or Kuwait.
    Esper said where those troops would be going and what they would be doing. You're basically calling him a liar.

    And maybe he is. All I know is, you stopped calling me a liar (and/or deranged) for pointing out what Esper said, and how it contradicts what you're saying.

    I do appreciate the improvement in your behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How do you know that? The numbers are secret.

    What's incontrovertible is that Trump has increased the number of troops in every warzone. Everything beyond that is speculation.




    Maybe. Who knows. It's secret because the numbers are just so good that we couldn't handle them if they told us.



    Maybe. Is the 2,000 part of the 14,000 or not part of the 14,000?






    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8335481.html




    Maybe. Maybe they have invented a way to spin straw into gold.




    Repeating yourself won't make it true.

    The fact is that troop levels are up. There is no evidence to suggest that troop levels were lower because Trump hid those numbers from us. We don't know what combat zone troop levels were in 2017 or 2018, but we know what they are now.







    No, the best. They assume that the Pentagon and the White House are telling us the truth, which is a terrible assumption to make.

    Everyone knows that special units are never counted in those numbers.







    -1000
    +5700

    Is not a reduction.




    Maybe. Maybe he's doing this. Maybe he's doing that. Maybe your mommy and daddy still love you. Maybe you'll get a pony for Christmas.
    You assume numbers are solid or a reasonable guess when you want and that they are unknown and useless when you want.

    Your own numbers showed that if we don't count the 14,000 he sent instead of declaring war on Iran he had reduced the deployed troops by about 7,555.



    Earlier Wednesday, Esper said the US had no plans to leave troops in Iraq "interminably," the AP reported. He has also met with the country's prime minister, Adel Abdul Mahdi.

    The US has more than 5,000 troops in Iraq, but it has attempted to keep the numbers low over political sensitivities after the US occupation during the 2003 war, the AP reported.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/iraq-says-us-...121601402.html

    Not only are the troops from Syria not staying in Iraq but Esper is now talking about removing the rest of our troops from Iraq.

    You continue to be wrong over and over and yet you either just stop talking about things (like the planned withdrawal from Afghanistan BEFORE the deal and the complete withdrawal afterwards) or you suddenly say my side doesn't get any benefit of doubt but your side gets unlimited benefit of doubt.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Esper said where those troops would be going and what they would be doing. You're basically calling him a liar.

    And maybe he is. All I know is, you stopped calling me a liar (and/or deranged) for pointing out what Esper said, and how it contradicts what you're saying.

    I do appreciate the improvement in your behavior.
    Esper said that BEFORE the meeting with the Iraqis and it was in contradiction to what Trump and Pence both said but you kept pointing to it even after I showed you what the Iraqis said AFTER the meeting and you ignored the part where even Esper always said the troops would be coming HOME after staying in Iraq for a little bit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Besides this 14000 surge, he reversed on Syria again, courtesy of Iraq war champ Lindsey Graham and a Foxnws expert armed with a map of Syrian oil fields.


    Swords has a meme where an alligator is chasing a red dot, that would fit here nicely.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Besides this 14000 surge, he reversed on Syria again, courtesy of Iraq war champ Lindsey Graham and a Foxnws expert armed with a map of Syrian oil fields.


    Swords has a meme where an alligator is chasing a red dot, that would fit here nicely.
    That's fake news, Trump has NOT approved of the plan and it wouldn't work because Syria and the Russians control the border crossings from Iraq that we would need to use for logistics.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45

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