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Thread: Trump has deployed 14,000 additional troops to the Middle East since May

  1. #1

    Trump has deployed 14,000 additional troops to the Middle East since May

    In fact, in response to Iranian provocation since May, the U.S. has deployed in array of additional capabilities to the region, including airborne early warning aircraft squadrons, maritime patrol aircraft squadrons, Patriot air and missile defense batteries, B-52 bombers, a carrier strike group, amphibious transport dock, unmanned aircraft, and engineering and support personnel. This has involved the deployment of about 14,000 additional U.S. forces to the region.
    https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/1988194/department-of-defense-press-briefing-by-secretary-esper-and-general-milley-in-t/


    Something something withdrawal something something non-intervention something something bringing our boys home.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.



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  3. #2
    Old News.

    Not only has Trump just announced a change of direction but that compromise to avoid declaring war on Iran is an exception to the overall trend since he took office
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Old News.
    Two weeks. How many troops have been withdrawn since then? Any? Any at all?


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not only has Trump just announced a change of direction but that compromise to avoid declaring war on Iran is an exception to the overall trend since he took office
    You are a liar.

    1) There has not been an overall downward trend.

    2) You just said in another thread that he increased troop levels in Afghanistan by 5700.

    3) You've been saying since day 1 that he wants to withdraw and has been withdrawing troops. How, then, has there been a change in direction in the last two weeks?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  5. #4
    Trump creates safe zones without creating a no fly zone


    Hillary proposes a safe zone enforced with a no fly zone.


    OMG, the difference between the two proposals is so big, its like night and day

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Two weeks. How many troops have been withdrawn since then? Any? Any at all?
    1,000 are leaving Syria and coming home for a start.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You are a liar.
    Projection.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    1) There has not been an overall downward trend.
    U.S. active-duty military presence overseas is at its smallest in decades


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    2) You just said in another thread that he increased troop levels in Afghanistan by 5700.
    But he has started to remove them while negotiating a total withdrawal.
    Afghanistan: U.S. Has Been Reducing Presence Over Past Year, Commander Says

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    3) You've been saying since day 1 that he wants to withdraw and has been withdrawing troops. How, then, has there been a change in direction in the last two weeks?
    He is bucking the warmongers and accelerating the withdrawal.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    1,000 are leaving Syria and coming home for a start.
    That bears no relation to the numbers in this thread. How many have been withdrawn? Any?

    You said that the numbers were old news. How have they changed?


    It was explained to you in that thread that the lower numbers are due to a change in how the number is measured. This is what makes you a liar.

    Your Orange God decided that Americans no longer get to know how many soldiers are in combat zones. So they subtracted that number from the number of personnel overseas. In no way was it an actual reduction of forces. But you know that already, don't you? It's just highly convenient to the lies that you want to tell, and so you just pretend that it doesn't exist.


    Well, it's your job, after all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But he has started to remove them while negotiating a total withdrawal.
    More lies.

    Trump says 8,600 US troops will stay after Afghanistan withdrawal

    https://www.militarytimes.com/congre...an-withdrawal/


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He is bucking the warmongers and accelerating the withdrawal.
    He is one of the warmongers and there is no withdrawal to accelerate. As this thread shows, he is increasing and not the number of troops in combat zones.
    Last edited by TheCount; 10-23-2019 at 05:02 PM.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That bears no relation to the numbers in this thread. How many have been withdrawn? Any?
    About 1,000 and it relates to the change in policy direction that you are trying to deny.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You said that the numbers were old news. How have they changed?
    They are old because they have already been posted numerous times and they were from before the change in policy direction.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It was explained to you in that thread that the lower numbers are due to a change in how the number is measured. This is what makes you a liar.

    Your Orange God decided that Americans no longer get to know how many soldiers are in combat zones. So they subtracted that number from the number of personnel overseas. In no way was it an actual reduction of forces. But you know that already, don't you? It's just highly convenient to the lies that you want to tell, and so you just pretend that it doesn't exist.
    The numbers do not exclude all troops in combat zones.
    They are the best numbers available and they are going down, not just down since the change but down since after the change.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Well, it's your job, after all.
    Projection.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    More lies. He hasn't started to withdraw them and he hasn't negotiated and is not negotiating a total withdrawal.
    He has:

    Afghanistan: U.S. Has Been Reducing Presence Over Past Year, Commander Says

    And is:

    Foreign troops to quit Afghanistan in 18 months under draft deal

    The agreement specifies that ALL foreign troops will leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Trump says 8,600 US troops will stay after Afghanistan withdrawal

    https://www.militarytimes.com/congre...an-withdrawal/
    That is a withdrawal to take place BEFORE the agreement, that proves he is withdrawing many NOW not that he will leave that many after the agreement.

    President Donald Trump said he plans to withdraw thousands of U.S. forces from Afghanistan, but will keep 8,600 there for the foreseeable future, pending the outcome of U.S. peace talks with the Taliban, which appear to be concluding. “We’re going down to 8,600 and then we make a determination from there as to what happens,”


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    He is one of the warmongers and there is no withdrawal to accelerate. As this thread shows, he is increasing and not the number of troops in combat zones.
    Totally wrong, as usual.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    About 1,000
    Link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are old because they have already been posted numerous times and they were from before the change in policy direction.
    Link to numerous posts? It's from 2 weeks ago.

    Also, change in policy direction? From what to what? What was Trump's policy prior to 2 weeks ago and what is his policy now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The numbers do not exclude all troops in combat zones.
    Yes, they do. You were told so in that thread, including quotes and links. Stop lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are the best numbers available and they are going down, not just down since the change but down since after the change.
    No, they did not go down. They went up, as proven by 14,000 additional deployed in 5 months. There has been no policy change. Stop lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Afghanistan: U.S. Has Been Reducing Presence Over Past Year, Commander Says
    Might want to check this link:http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...East-since-May


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Foreign troops to quit Afghanistan in 18 months under draft deal
    That's from 10 months ago. It predates Trump saying that 8,600 troops would stay. Stop lying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The agreement specifies that ALL foreign troops will leave.
    There is no agreement. Stop lying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Totally wrong, as usual.
    No u.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Link?
    About 500 US personnel crossed over into Iraq from Syria early Monday morning in hundreds of armored vehicles. Some were recently seen in Duhok, a city in Iraqi Kurdistan about 40 miles from the Syrian border. Days earlier, Esper told reporters that the 1,000 American service members in Syria would go into western Iraq to “help defend” the country and “perform a counter-ISIS mission as we sort through the next steps.”

    https://www.vox.com/2019/10/21/20924...t-troops-trump



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Link to numerous posts? It's from 2 weeks ago.
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6874589

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-reach-14-000&

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6874548

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6872148

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...36#post6872136

    There may be more, my search wasn't exhaustive.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Also, change in policy direction? From what to what? What was Trump's policy prior to 2 weeks ago and what is his policy now?
    From trying to withdraw troops slowly to aggressively withdrawing troops.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Yes, they do. You were told so in that thread, including quotes and links. Stop lying.
    That's not what it says, you are rewording it.

    Starting in December 2017, the table no longer includes personnel on temporary duty, or deployed in support of contingency operations.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No, they did not go down. They went up, as proven by 14,000 additional deployed in 5 months. There has been no policy change. Stop lying.

    Might want to check this link:http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...East-since-May
    They were going down and that deployment was a compromise to avoid impeachment while refusing to declare war on Iran, the number will continue to go down and now it will go down faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That's from 10 months ago. It predates Trump saying that 8,600 troops would stay. Stop lying.
    You are the liar, I already showed you that it said we were going to reduce down to 8,600 BEFORE the agreement is signed and then remove ALL troops.
    You purposely ignored that.
    Here is another source:

    September 2, 2019

    America has agreed in principle to withdraw 5,000 troops from five military bases in 20 weeks, in a deal with the Taliban to kick start talks with the Afghan government.
    The accord which could be announced as early as Wednesday would see US troops begin to pull back from their longest ever conflict, in return for a reduction in Taliban attacks and the start of formal negotiations with Ashraf Ghani's government.

    After the first tranche of 5,000 of America's 14,000-odd troops had left, the rest would gradually leave the country over 15 months or more. If the Taliban failed to meet the conditions then America would “stop the clock” on the withdrawal however.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/us-start-afgh...175551050.html





    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    There is no agreement. Stop lying.
    There is, it isn't final yet but they are still talking:

    U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper arrived in Afghanistan on Sunday in a bid to bring talks with the Taliban back on track after President Donald Trump abruptly broke off negotiations last month seeking to end the United States' longest war.

    "The aim is to still get a peace agreement at some point, a political agreement. That is the best way forward," Esper told reporters traveling with him to Afghanistan. He is due to meet President Ashraf Ghani and U.S. troops while in Afghanistan.
    "I hope we can move forward and come up with a political agreement that meets our ends and meets the goals we want to achieve," Esper said, adding that talks were in the State Department’s domain.
    He added that the United States could go down to about 8,600 troops, from the current 14,000, without affecting counter-terrorism operations, if needed.

    One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that after Trump's sudden announcement that the United States would withdraw all its troops from northern Syria last week, there was more of a realization that Trump was serious about withdrawing from Afghanistan as well.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-chie...113822496.html

    Note again that we will reduce to 8,600 BEFORE finalizing the agreement.

    You need to stop lying.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No u.
    You have been wrong every step of the way and you just keep moving the goalposts and not admitting you were wrong before.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    As Joe Lieberman ( or perhaps it was Lindsey Graham) had said before Iraqi freedom invasion, better to be prepared than unprepared for wars. Anyone with a global map globe knows that mideast is thousands of miles from here, how are we to quickly come to defense of our closest allies married to our top donor in case of Iran/Syria/Yemen/ISIS threats if we don't have forces in the region?

    Trump warns U.S. 'may have to get in wars'


    Naive isolationist objection.





    Related

    Iraqi lawmakers demand U.S. troops withdraw after Trump's surprise visit

    12-27-2018

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Well, it's your job, after all.
    The funny thing is, he doesn't even try to create a believable defense. He just posts random semi-related numbers from sources he claims not to trust...

    He's not trying to prove any point. He's just chucking out enough baffling bull$#@! that people with Right Wing TDS can fool themselves into remaining in their state of denial.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    As Joe Lieberman ( or perhaps it was Lindsey Graham) had said before Iraqi freedom invasion, better to be prepared than unprepared for wars. Anyone with a global map globe knows that mideast is thousands of miles from here, how are we to quickly come to defense of our closest allies married to our top donor in case of Iran/Syria/Yemen/ISIS threats if we don't have forces in the region?

    Trump warns U.S. 'may have to get in wars'


    Naive isolationist objection.
    There is always a possibility that we might be attacked and have to respond, we are not and should not be a pacifist nation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The funny thing is, he doesn't even try to create a believable defense. He just posts random semi-related numbers from sources he claims not to trust...



    He's not trying to prove any point. He's just chucking out enough baffling bull$#@! that people with Right Wing TDS can fool themselves into remaining in their state of denial.
    Projection.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is always a possibility that we might be attacked and have to respond, we are not and should not be a pacifist nation.
    In last 300 years of history, when was the last time we were attacked at home that required invasion of a mideast country?

    So you support 14,000 troops surge to mideast since 2019? Do you know which attack caused that surge?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    In last 300 years of history, when was the last time we were attacked at home that required invasion of a mideast country?

    So you support 14,000 troops surge to mideast since 2019? Do you know which attack caused that surge?
    Let me know when Trump starts a shooting war, he has passed on the opportunity multiple times.

    He has to make it clear he isn't a pacifist and that doesn't mean he is a warmonger.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He's not trying to prove any point. He's just chucking out enough baffling bull$#@! that people with Right Wing TDS can fool themselves into remaining in their state of denial.
    Projection.
    I'm trying to enable Trump lovers to maintain their state of denial? I?

    Well, at least he's starting to develop a sense of humor.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm trying to enable Trump lovers to maintain their state of denial? I?

    Well, at least he's starting to develop a sense of humor.
    You are trying to enable Trump Haters to maintain their state of denial.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    About 500 US personnel crossed over into Iraq from Syria early Monday morning in hundreds of armored vehicles. Some were recently seen in Duhok, a city in Iraqi Kurdistan about 40 miles from the Syrian border. Days earlier, Esper told reporters that the 1,000 American service members in Syria would go into western Iraq to “help defend” the country and “perform a counter-ISIS mission as we sort through the next steps.”

    https://www.vox.com/2019/10/21/20924...t-troops-trump
    What's your argument here? Moving 500 troops from Syria to Iraq changes the number of troops in the Middle East... how, exactly?

    As @acptulsa says, you're just spewing out anything even tangentially related. So much for your 'I call Trump out when he does bad things' trope.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There may be more, my search wasn't exhaustive.
    Here's what you said the very same day that the statement was released:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Old News.
    It was pre-old news, I guess. Or else this is just your default 'Orange man good!' defense when you're caught with a ring of fake tan around your lips and a smear of brown on the tip of your nose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    From trying to withdraw troops slowly to aggressively withdrawing troops.
    Adding 14,000 troops is not withdrawing troops.

    It is the opposite of withdrawing troops.

    Stop lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not what it says, you are rewording it.
    More lies. Here's the quote from the report:
    Note: The DMDC data only reflects personnel who are permanently assigned for duty at these locations. The table does not include personnel on temporary duty, or deployed in support of contingency operations.
    That's why there are no numbers for Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, and why the numbers in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, and Oman are artificially low.

    PS: Navy personnel on ships are not permanently assigned to the region. So if, let's say, a carrier strike group is deployed to the Middle East, those numbers don't count in this report. Or if an army brigade is rotated to the Middle East, those numbers don't count either.

    Here you go:
    after years of being able to generally rely on the Defense Manpower Data Center to offer a glimpse into deployment statistics when Pentagon spokespeople were tight-lipped, last month DOD stripped out Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria numbers from its quarterly reports.
    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...arency-problem

    Pentagon strips Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria troop numbers from web

    After months of review, the Pentagon has released a quarterly report of the number of troops serving overseas — minus any data it previously reported about the number of service members deployed in combat.

    The Defense Manpower Data Center for years has reported quarterly the number of active duty, National Guard and Reserve forces assigned to each state and stationed at each country overseas.

    When asked last week why the quarterly December report still had not posted, a defense official said “DMDC is currently updating their policy for these reports. The information should be available soon, and retroactive numbers will be available.”

    The Pentagon typically reports each quarter’s data three months after the quarter ends.

    The December report, however, just had blank spaces where Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan figures used to be.
    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...bers-from-web/

    Yes, that's the same reporting source that you are disingenuously using to Trumpet something that doesn't exist.

    The numbers used to be complete.

    Then some of the numbers were removed.

    As a result, the numbers went down.

    Not because there are fewer troops, but because your Orange God and his administration no longer think that Americans deserve to know where their military is deployed and in what quantity.


    Numbers for Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria the previous year - before Trump's Afghanistan surge - were 26,000. That's just the reported quantity.
    26,000 US troops total in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, DoD reports

    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...a-dod-reports/


    Now add Trump's surge 5700 (according to you) and then an additional +14,000 since May. Let's totally ignore all of the other troop deployments that are in addition to this, such as the THAAD battery sent to Saudi Arabia, for simplicity's sake.

    Get your calculator out, Wormtongue. How much did troop levels go down according to your disingenuous garbage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    September 2017: 215,249
    June 2019 (latest): 177,104
    -38,145

    26,000
    +14,000
    + 5,700
    --------
    +45,700



    Troop numbers have gone up, not down. Now stop lying about it.
    Last edited by TheCount; 10-24-2019 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Switched from 2018 to 2019 numbers
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    What's your argument here? Moving 500 troops from Syria to Iraq changes the number of troops in the Middle East... how, exactly?

    As @acptulsa says, you're just spewing out anything even tangentially related. So much for your 'I call Trump out when he does bad things' trope.
    They are leaving Syria on the way home, they will leave Iraq in four weeks or less:

    Trump knew they were against having our troops there that's why he moved the troops from Syria there so they couldn't stay:

    The Iraqi government's efforts to expel what it increasingly considers an 'unauthorized' American occupation have just escalated dramatically, as Baghdad is now urging the United Nations to expel US troops from sovereign Iraqi territory.
    As we noted previously, Baghdad officials rejected a Pentagon plan to relocate some 1,000 US troops now exiting Syria to US bases in western Iraq, saying the additional troops had "no approval to stay".
    On Wednesday Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi announced he's taking “all international legal measures” over the entry of U.S. troops from neighboring Syria, again underscoring the Pentagon had no authorization for such a move, and that the troops are "not allowed" to remain in the country, but only "transition" on their way to other US bases in Kuwait and Qatar.


    “We have (already) issued an official statement saying that and are taking all international legal measures. We ask the international community and the United Nations to perform their roles in this matter,” Abdul Mahdi’ said.
    He said that any American forces coming from Syria have four weeks to leave Iraq, as reported by the AP.

    The firm 'red line' assertion came immediately after the prime minister met with US Defense Secretary Mark Esper, who arrived earlier in the day on an unannounced visit, apparently to negotiate a compromise.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...forces-country

    American forces coming from Syria have four weeks to leave Iraq




    Well played, DJTvsg, Well played.






    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Here's what you said the very same day that the statement was released:



    It was pre-old news, I guess. Or else this is just your default 'Orange man good!' defense when you're caught with a ring of fake tan around your lips and a smear of brown on the tip of your nose.
    It was old news, the deployments involved had already been announced before that.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Adding 14,000 troops is not withdrawing troops.

    It is the opposite of withdrawing troops.

    Stop lying.
    He has also been removing troops as I keep showing and you keep lying about, the deployments as a compromise instead of starting a war with Iran are an exception to the trend.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    More lies. Here's the quote from the report:


    That's why there are no numbers for Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, and why the numbers in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, and Oman are artificially low.

    PS: Navy personnel on ships are not permanently assigned to the region. So if, let's say, a carrier strike group is deployed to the Middle East, those numbers don't count in this report. Or if an army brigade is rotated to the Middle East, those numbers don't count either.

    Here you go:

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...arency-problem



    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...bers-from-web/

    Yes, that's the same reporting source that you are disingenuously using to Trumpet something that doesn't exist.

    The numbers used to be complete.

    Then some of the numbers were removed.

    As a result, the numbers went down.

    Not because there are fewer troops, but because your Orange God and his administration no longer think that Americans deserve to know where their military is deployed and in what quantity.


    Numbers for Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria the previous year - before Trump's Afghanistan surge - were 26,000. That's just the reported quantity.

    https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...a-dod-reports/


    Now add Trump's surge 5700 (according to you) and then an additional +14,000 since May. Let's totally ignore all of the other troop deployments that are in addition to this, such as the THAAD battery sent to Saudi Arabia, for simplicity's sake.

    Get your calculator out, Wormtongue. How much did troop levels go down according to your disingenuous garbage?



    -38,145

    26,000
    +14,000
    + 5,700
    --------
    +45,700



    Troop numbers have gone up, not down. Now stop lying about it.
    You said ALL troops in combat zones but it isn't ALL, then you use numbers that count ALL even though it isn't ALL.
    But let's take your numbers for a moment.

    45,700-38,145=7,555
    So until the deployment to compromise instead of going to war the numbers must have been down at least 6,445.

    Trump has been trying to reduce the numbers and now he is accelerating the withdrawal.

    Stop lying.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    //
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 10-24-2019 at 03:49 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He has also been removing troops as I keep showing and you keep lying about, the deployments as a compromise instead of starting a war with Iran are an exception to the trend.
    As I said, he is removing troops like he is reducing budgets. He keeps saying that he's doing it, but the numbers keep going up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You said ALL troops in combat zones but it isn't ALL, then you use numbers that count ALL even though it isn't ALL.
    Oh, you're certainly squirming now, Wormtongue. Nothing of substance to say, huh?


    Note: The DMDC data only reflects personnel who are permanently assigned for duty at these locations. The table does not include personnel on temporary duty, or deployed in support of contingency operations.
    Might want to look up what that means.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But let's take your numbers for a moment.

    45,700-38,145=7,555
    So until the deployment to compromise instead of going to war the numbers must have been down at least 6,445.
    Maybe. Could be. We'll never know because Trump decided that we don't get to know. As I said, those numbers do not include any other deployments. It covers a single deployment in 2017 and a five-month period in 2019. There's a lot of space in between those for movement of other troops, which we know happened.

    Either way, it exposes as a lie the idea that Trump has reduced troop levels. He has not.


    Additionally it makes your primary lie worse and not better. Rather than a mythical policy change which conveniently happened sometime in the last two weeks, your alternate lie paints a picture of a president who's just been waffling his way through his term with no policy at all and who evidently doesn't actually give a $#@! about the things that you pretend to believe he gives a $#@! about.


    Hiding troop levels from the American people doesn't seem like the sort of thing that someone who cared about them would do, now does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump has been trying to reduce the numbers and now he is accelerating the withdrawal.
    He either hasn't been trying very hard or else he's been failing. Take your pick.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  25. #22
    Be good to rally around a true peace seeking, outspoken congressmen or woman

    Anybody out there fighting good fight that we may not know about?
    Last edited by vita3; 10-24-2019 at 06:10 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are leaving Syria on the way home, they will leave Iraq in four weeks or less:

    Trump knew they were against having our troops there that's why he moved the troops from Syria there so they couldn't stay:

    ...the troops are "not allowed" to remain in the country, but only "transition" on their way to other US bases in Kuwait and Qatar.
    Well played, DJTvsg, Well played.
    He knows we're not this stupid. Who is he doing this for? If it's for those with Right Wing Trump Derangement Syndrome, he's not only calling them dumb, he's setting them up to embarrass themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    As I said, he is removing troops like he is reducing budgets. He keeps saying that he's doing it, but the numbers keep going up.
    No, with one exception brought on by extraordinary circumstances they have been going DOWN and now they will go down faster.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oh, you're certainly squirming now, Wormtongue. Nothing of substance to say, huh?
    Did you forget already?
    I'll have to remind you:

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshLowry View Post
    Stop insulting each other...
    And what I said was substantial, the difference between ALL and even most troops in combat zones can seriously affect the calculations.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Maybe. Could be. We'll never know because Trump decided that we don't get to know. As I said, those numbers do not include any other deployments. It covers a single deployment in 2017 and a five-month period in 2019. There's a lot of space in between those for movement of other troops, which we know happened.

    Either way, it exposes as a lie the idea that Trump has reduced troop levels. He has not.
    You admit that there may be more troop movements but you think you can ignore the possibility that more may have come home?
    Taking your numbers that assume the worst for Trump I proved that with one extraordinary exception he had been bringing troops home slowly.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Additionally it makes your primary lie worse and not better. Rather than a mythical policy change which conveniently happened sometime in the last two weeks, your alternate lie paints a picture of a president who's just been waffling his way through his term with no policy at all and who evidently doesn't actually give a $#@! about the things that you pretend to believe he gives a $#@! about.
    With one extraordinary exception he had been bringing troops home slowly.
    Now he has just announced that we will be bringing them homw much faster and given us a downpayment by removing 1,000 from Syria and they won't be staying in Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Hiding troop levels from the American people doesn't seem like the sort of thing that someone who cared about them would do, now does it?
    That depends on who else he is hiding them from.
    You are just speculating.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    He either hasn't been trying very hard or else he's been failing. Take your pick.
    He was trying and succeeding until the deployments as a compromise to avoid going to war, now he is trying much harder.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He knows we're not this stupid. Who is he doing this for? If it's for those with Right Wing Trump Derangement Syndrome, he's not only calling them dumb, he's setting them up to embarrass themselves.
    They are coming HOME:

    United States troops exiting Syria through Iraq will eventually make their way home, according to the Pentagon.
    Secretary of Defense Mark Esper provided the update on Tuesday after a statement from the Iraqi military that said U.S. troops do not have permission to stay in the country. Esper initially said the troops would relocate to western Iraq in order to continue operations against the Islamic State.
    “We'll reposition as they come out of northeast Syria into Iraq. You know, eventually, their destination is home. But what we've got to do is pull them out deliberately, out of northeast Syria, and make our preparations to go home from there; and I'll have that discussion tomorrow with the Iraqi defense minister about the details,” Esper told reporters while visiting officials in Saudi Arabia.
    “But the aim isn't to stay in Iraq interminably; the aim is to pull our soldiers out and eventually get them back home.”

    More at: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...t-stay-in-iraq

    Vice President Pence said Tuesday that President Trump is following through on his promise to bring U.S. troops home from Syria and talked up the prospect of a permanent ceasefire in the region.
    Pence insisted that a ceasefire the administration helped broker between Turkey and Syria last week “has held” and claimed Trump’s own moves had paved the way for the possibility of a permanent ceasefire.
    “Earlier today, we received word from the Syrian defense forces commander that all of their military forces have withdrawn from the safe zone under Turkish military control and before I came here, our team was continuing in communicating with both sides in hope that a permanent ceasefire could soon take hold,” Pence said in remarks at the Heritage Foundation’s Honors Gala in Washington, D.C. “Those discussions are ongoing.”

    “Thanks to the strong leadership from President Donald Trump, we have an opportunity for a permanent ceasefire,” Pence continued, adding, “our troops are coming home.”

    “Now that our military and our allies have achieved our objectives against ISIS, President Trump is keeping his word to the American people and our troops are starting to come home,” he said.

    More at: https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...re-coming-home


    It may take longer than 4 weeks to arrange for all of them to come home so some of them may leave Iraq for other places to comply with the 4 week deadline.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, with one exception brought on by extraordinary circumstances they have been going DOWN and now they will go down faster.
    No, that is a lie. From 2017 until now there has been an upward trend of troop levels in combat zones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Did you forget already?
    No, I did not forget.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And what I said was substantial, the difference between ALL and even most troops in combat zones can seriously affect the calculations.
    ALL troops in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria are excluded from the report.

    You have the link. You posted it. Did you read it? Did you open the spreadsheet? Go look at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You admit that there may be more troop movements but you think you can ignore the possibility that more may have come home?
    Not there may be more troop movements, there were more troop movements, and we know what they were and we know that they were increases in troop levels, not decreases. My estimate is a lower estimate, not an upper estimate.

    Trump and Trumpkins have consistently lied to us about troop withdrawals and troop levels, and it has always been in a downward direction. Had there been any more withdrawals, they would be Trumpeted loudly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Taking your numbers that assume the worst for Trump I proved that with one extraordinary exception he had been bringing troops home slowly.
    They assume the best, not the worst, as I said. For the sake of simplicity they ignore other troop deployments and rotations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    With one extraordinary exception he had been bringing troops home slowly.
    That is a lie.

    His first surge of 5700 troops (your numbers) began in 2017 and continued into 2018.

    The current surge of 14,000 additional troops occurred in 2019.


    The exact opposite of what you say is true. The apparent reduction of troop levels during the first 6 months of 2017 is the outlier, and the steady increase of troop levels is the trend over the whole of his presidency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Now he has just announced that we will be bringing them homw much faster and given us a downpayment by removing 1,000 from Syria and they won't be staying in Iraq.
    He has said a lot of things. How many times has he announced a Syria withdrawal? How many times has he announced an Iraq withdrawal? How many times has he announced an Afghanistan withdrawal?


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That depends on who else he is hiding them from.
    I don't care who else he is hiding them from. The American people deserve to know where their military is and what it is doing. They are not real time numbers; they are quarterly reports showing lagging, not leading number.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He was trying and succeeding until the deployments as a compromise to avoid going to war, now he is trying much harder.
    You have absolutely no proof that is true.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming HOME:
    ...eventually ...

    Esper initially said the troops would relocate to western Iraq in order to continue operations against the Islamic State.
    “You know, eventually, their destination is home... eventually get them back home.”

    “Those discussions are ongoing.”

    “Thanks to the strong leadership from President Donald Trump, we have an opportunity...
    It may take longer than 4 weeks to arrange for all of them to come home so some of them may leave Iraq for other places to comply with the 4 week deadline.
    LOL

    It may take longer than four weeks to decide when and where to start discussing this purely theoretical ceasefire.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    LOL

    It may take longer than four weeks to decide when and where to start discussing this purely theoretical ceasefire.
    The Secretary of Defense says they are coming home, the Vice President say they are coming home and Trump says they are coming home but the TDS victims who said they would never leave Syria know better?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Secretary of Defense says they are coming home, the Vice President say they are coming home and Trump says they are coming home but the TDS victims who said they would never leave Syria know better?
    The Secretary of Defense said they would continue operations against IS and the VP said they were going to get around to beginning ceasefire talks with the eventual aim of bringing them home.

    Neither said anything about weeks, beyond getting them moved from Iraq to Qatar and Kuwait.

    This is all from your links. Don't you read this stuff you post?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Lol, wow, Anthony Weiner, too?

  34. #30
    Let give em a parade if they ever make it back to US soil...

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