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Thread: Brexit finalised?

  1. #1

    Brexit finalised?

    This looks like “breaking” news...

    UK and EU negotiators have finally agreed on a Brexit deal that will now be voted upon by the 27 leaders of the European Union and the UK parliament.

    President of the EU Commission Jean-Claude Juncker tweeted that a “fair and balanced agreement” has been struck with Britain to leave the EU.
    UK PM Boris Johnson also posted that a “great new deal that takes back control” had been brokered.

    According to Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn the new UK-EU Brexit deal is a “sell out” that “won’t bring the country together and should be rejected.
    The best way to get Brexit sorted is to give the people the final say in a public vote.: https://www.rt.com/news/471111-brexi...-announcement/
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  3. #2

  4. #3
    DUP blasts Boris Johnson's Brexit deal with warning that the party is 'unable' to back anything that undermines the 'integrity' of the United Kingdom

    The DUP is on a collision path with Boris Johnson over Brexit today after refusing to back his hard-fought deal to quit the EU.

    Arlene Foster's hardline loyalists said that the agreement with Brussels undermine the integrity of the Union after the PM revealed that an 11th hour compromise had been reached.

    The party lashed out at several aspects of the deal, including a 'consent' clause designed to give Northern Ireland an veto over customs arrangements.

    Their stark rejection rises questions over whether Mr Johnson will be able to get the deal past the Commons in a vote on Saturday.

    In a statement the DUP warned: 'Saturday's vote in Parliament on the proposals will only be the start of a long process to get any Withdrawal Agreement Bill through the House of Commons.'

    They added: 'Following confirmation from the Prime Minister that he believes he has secured a ''great new deal'' with the European Union the Democratic Unionist Party will be unable to support these proposals in Parliament.

    'The Democratic Unionist Party has worked since the referendum result to secure a negotiated deal as we leave the European Union.

    'We have been consistent that we will only ever consider supporting arrangements that are in Northern Ireland's long-term economic and constitutional interests and protect the integrity of the Union.

    'These proposals are not, in our view, beneficial to the economic well-being of Northern Ireland and they undermine the integrity of the Union.'

    The DUP's main concern was the proposed method for Northern Ireland to 'consent' to the complex customs plans cobbled together in Brussels.

    The UK and EU have agreed the Northern Ireland Assembly should be offered the chance to opt out of staying in Brussels' customs orbit. It takes the form of a vote every four years with a simple majority to win.

    But the DUP wanted any vote to be subject to the 'cross-community support' provision of the Good Friday Agreement.

    This arrangement from 1998 means that contentious issues have to be approved by a majority of both unionists and nationalist politicians - giving them a powerful veto.

    The DUP spokesman said: 'While some progress has been made in recognising the issue of consent, the elected representatives of Northern Ireland will have no say on whether Northern Ireland should enter these arrangements.

    'The Government has departed from the principle that these arrangements must be subject to the consent of both unionists and nationalists in Northern Ireland.

    'These arrangements would be subject to a rolling review but again the principles of the Belfast Agreement on consent have been abandoned in favour of majority rule on this single issue alone.

    'These arrangements will become the settled position in these areas for Northern Ireland. This drives a coach and horses through the professed sanctity of the Belfast Agreement.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-new-deal.html

  5. #4
    It would still have to be approved by Ireland (who does not seem excited about it), the EU, and Parliament- which is deeply divided and must approve it by Saturday. I don't see any deal actually passing.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50084450

    A Brexit deal has been agreed. Does that mean it's all done?

    No. Any deal needs to be approved by the UK Parliament and across the EU. The last time this happened, UK PM Theresa May failed to get her deal approved three times by the House of Commons before resigning.

    The new PM, Boris Johnson, has geared his entire leadership around getting Brexit done by 31 October.

    But he still faces the same battle to get a divided Commons to agree to his deal.

    And to make matters more complicated, he needs to get it done on Saturday to avoid a third Brexit extension.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-17-2019 at 10:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    It would still have to be approved by Ireland (who does not seem excited about it), the EU, and Parliament- which is deeply divided and must approve it by Saturday. I don't see any deal actually passing.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50084450

    You're right. Without the DUP the numbers aren't there. Labour leader has said it should be rejected but there might be some Labour members who will vote for the deal and just want to get it done because their district voted Leave. I dont know how big the defections will be (no one knows).

    Parliament will sit on Saturday at 9:30am-2pm BST. Maybe you will get up early Zippy?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    You're right. Without the DUP the numbers aren't there. Labour leader has said it should be rejected but there might be some Labour members who will vote for the deal and just want to get it done because their district voted Leave. I dont know how big the defections will be (no one knows).
    But I thought that with Queen Elizabeth ordering the Parliament (and EU) that Brexit this month is THE "priority" just last 13 October that the deal won't fail, even if this means taking actions that some would call an abuse of power: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1WS0QX
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    But I thought that with Queen Elizabeth ordering the Parliament (and EU) that Brexit this month is THE "priority" just last 13 October that the deal won't fail, even if this means taking actions that some would call an abuse of power: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1WS0QX
    The Queen takes advice from her ministers. She only has ceremonial powers.

  9. #8
    No Deal is the only way.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No Deal is the only way.
    The vote on Saturday is going to be very close. One outlet reckons 318 will vote for it which is 3 votes short of the majority. It's going to come down to the Labour members and how many of them vote for it.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The vote on Saturday is going to be very close. One outlet reckons 318 will vote for it which is 3 votes short of the majority. It's going to come down to the Labour members and how many of them vote for it.
    I don't think the EU will go for the deal either.

    Why Nigel is suddenly calling for an extension is unfortunately obvious, he cares more about winning an election than BREXIT and he knows Boris won't need him and will win easily if he delivers a No Deal BREXIT.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    I've pretty much lost all faith that Brexit is going to happen.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't think the EU will go for the deal either.

    Why Nigel is suddenly calling for an extension is unfortunately obvious, he cares more about winning an election than BREXIT and he knows Boris won't need him and will win easily if he delivers a No Deal BREXIT.
    Nigel just likes to hear Nigel talk. Johnson is the one who cares more about winning an election than Brexit. Just two years ago he was against it (Brexit). He will say or back anything to get elected.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-17-2019 at 04:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    I've pretty much lost all faith that Brexit is going to happen.
    It will happen, the people who want to stop it can't get together on how to stop it and BJ has to deliver it if he wants to win the next election.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    As expected, the EU has decided to support Johnson's plan after Juncker successfully sold it to the European Council, which announced during a late-day press conference that they now support the plan. Now, the battle of Whitehall has truly begun.
    �� LIVE NOW: Press conference by @eucopresident Tusk, @JunckerEU, @MichelBarnier and @LeoVaradkar on #Brexit https://t.co/aE7GdwFIf9
    — EU Council Press (@EUCouncilPress) October 17, 2019
    * * *


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...ew-brexit-deal
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    We want a Brexit!

    and when do we want it!? ...
    Where is John Galt?

  18. #16
    The Guardian Live Blog discusses a constitutional challenge, DUP opposition, and other details.
    Jean-Claude Juncker has tried to help sell the new Brexit deal in the face of opposition from the Democratic Unionist party by pouring doubt on a further Brexit extension in the event of it being rejected.
    Juncker said he was “ruling out” a prolongation, although the issue is solely the remit of the heads of state and government. “If we have a deal, we have a deal and there is no need for prolongation,” he added.
    Constitutional Challenge

    Campaigning anti-Brexit QC Jolyon Maugham has now lodged his petition at the court of session in Edinburgh, which essentially tries to ban parliament from debating the new Brexit deal, on the basis that it is illegal, and which he anticipates will be heard tomorrow.
    Maugham believes that the deal contravenes s55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018, which states that it is “unlawful for Her Majesty’s government to enter into arrangements under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain”.
    With the detail of Boris Johnson’s new deal still emerging, lawyers insist that s55 is “crystal clear” and that any form of differentiated deal for Northern Ireland will contravene it.
    Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, has already cleared time for an emergency hearing in the court of session at noon on Monday 21 October, where he could issue court orders forcing Johnson to send a letter to the EU asking for an extension to article 50 until 31 January as per the Benn Act.
    Boost to Johnson

    Folks point out that decision on Brexit extension not down to @JunckerEU but a EU council decision. True....but I think he knew exactly what he was saying and its a big help for Team Johnson.
    — norman smith (@BBCNormanS) October 17, 2019
    Johnson Likely Has the Votes

    I suspect @BorisJohnson and his team think they have the numbers to pass the deal without the DUP - but even if they don’t, they get to run a populist election campaign, which should be enough. But it’s so volatile a change of just a few points could be disastrous.
    — Craig Oliver (@CraigOliver100) October 17, 2019
    Sir Oliver Letwin will back deal

    Sir Oliver Letwin, who had the Conservative whip withdrawn over his rebellion on a no-deal Brexit vote, has said he will back the Prime Minister's deal on Saturday, calling it "admirable"
    No Deal Says DUP

    These arrangements will become the settled position in these areas for Northern Ireland. This drives a coach and horses through the professed sanctity of the Belfast agreement.
    For all of these reasons it is our view that these arrangements would not be in Northern Ireland’s long-term interests. Saturday’s vote in parliament on the proposals will only be the start of a long process to get any withdrawal agreement bill through the House of Commons.


    I suspect all the MPs who lost Tory party membership will regain the whip (membership) if they vote for the deal. That makes passage more likely, but not guaranteed.
    There are about 22 Labour MPs who want Brexit and that would likely be enough to offset the 9 DUP votes. This is my guess, Eurointelligence thinks passage falls short.
    If it does pass, legal challenges loom. And Benn is likely to modify the legislation requiring Johnson to seek an extension if it doesn't pass.
    Final Irony Coming Up?

    One possibility is that if the legal challenge wins, a hard Brexit might happen, which Johnson could blame on Labour, the Liberal Democrats, and the Remainers.

    Boris Johnson needs to swing about 30 vote for his Brexit deal to pass, and that is my expectation even though some insist it will not pass without DUP.
    A Telegraph Number Crunch shows that is not necessarily the case.
    My comments in brackets.
    Mr Johnson has a deficit of 58 votes to overcome from when Mrs May's Withdrawal Agreement was defeated for a third time.
    Although the new deal has yet to be properly scrutinised, it is unlikely that he'll lose many of the 286 MPs that voted for a deal in that third meaningful vote. This would leave Mr Johnson with the task of winning a net 30 extra MPs over to his cause.
    1: The ERG and the "Spartans" [28 possible]
    The European Research Group (ERG) consists of around 80 eurosceptic Conservatives who were vocal in their opposition to Theresa May's deal. Most of them voted against it on the first two occasions but for it on the third.
    A smaller subset of this group - 28 "Spartans", including Steve Baker - refused to back Mrs May's deal when their other colleagues caved-in.
    While he can't get the 30 extra MPs he needs from this camp, there are clear signs that a large number of them may be open to backing his deal.
    2: The expelled Tories [4 possible]
    Last month Mr Johnson expelled 21 Conservatives from the party after they opposed the government by voting along with Labour and the other opposition parties to remove a no-deal Brexit option from the table.
    Just four of this number actually opposed Mrs May's deal at the third time of asking, with the remaining 17 best classed as anti-no dealers rather than ardent remainers.
    This means they should be persuadable when it comes to supporting any deal that Boris Johnson is able to secure - although there are no guarantees yet.
    3: Labour rebels [50 possible, 19 likely]
    This is the group that will, in all likelihood decide whether or not Boris Johnson passes his Brexit deal. Even with the support of all the expelled Tories and the ERG the numbers might not be there - especially if the DUP aren't on board.
    Luckily for Mr Johnson there have been consistent rumblings from the likes of Stephen Kinnock - a Labour MP representing a Leave constituency - that they would support a Conservative Brexit deal.
    It didn't happen under Theresa May - when only five Labour MPs rebelled against their party leader - but there is a sense that it could be different this time around.
    Earlier this month, 19 Labour MPs signed a letter to the EU asking them to agree a deal with Boris Johnson so that they could vote for it, while last month Caroline Flint suggested that up to 50 Labour MPs might back a deal.
    While 50 might be on the high side, 19 Labour rebels would in all likelihood be enough to swing the numbers in Mr Johnson's favour.
    It means that there could well be enough votes available for a Brexit deal to be agreed by parliament on Saturday. But it will be tight.
    Free Vote?

    The margin of victory or defeat will likely come down to whether or not Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn will expel any Labour MP who votes for the deal.
    If Corbyn grants a free vote, or even a 1-line Whip, it could pass with a huge margin.
    My Expectation If DUP On Board

    • 27 Spartans
    • 19 Labour MPs minimum
    • 10 DUP

    My Expectation If DUP Not On Board

    • 22 Spartans
    • 10 Labour MPs on a free vote and possibly anyway

    In either case, it appears the deal will pass, but if it is that close, perhaps it fails because a few of those who voted for May's deal do not vote for this one.
    But it is not even certain that DUP will vote against the deal. The EU will not revise the deal, but Johnson can likely add some sweeteners
    With DUP on board, passage is a near certainty. If Corbyn offers a free vote or a one-line Whip it's also likely to pass easily,
    Tricks

    One trick that Corbyn might pull is to allow a free vote on the deal, then demand it be put to a referendum. Such shenanigans would fail, and probably miserably.
    Just Found This - Free Vote

    I also understand Jeremy Corbyn “promised” some leave-supporting Labour MPs that the whip would not be withdrawn in any circumstances on Saturday
    — Tom Rayner (@RaynerSkyNews) October 17, 2019
    Looks a little convoluted. Here is the rest of the chain:



    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...hallenge-looms
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    The Queen takes advice from her ministers. She only has ceremonial powers.
    Thanks for that I always enjoy state propaganda.
    Do you know what happens if Elizabeth doesn´t follow the "advice" of "her" ministers?!? She simply replies I will hold that thought into consideration...
    What powers does a minister have to "force" Queen Elizabeth to do anything?!? Absolutely nothing! The minister - by law - has no powers over the head of state at all...

    The only "power" a minister has is the power of "words", for a handsome pay, basically just like the rest of us.
    Of course when the population gets angry, something has to be done to quiet them down, in which case the minister gets blamed for the actions of the Queen and has to resign (that´s basically their role in our Brave New World)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    QUEEN ELIZABETH – DICTATORIAL POWERS
    Britain doesn’t even have a constitution, but a number of “Acts” that together can be considered the constitution. The Bill of Rights of 1689 has never been repealed, so you already know that Britain doesn’t respect human rights any better than was the standard in the 17th century. I did read Wikipedia (and some other websites) to get an idea on the “constitution” of Great Britain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...United_Kingdom

    According to Wikipedia these are some of the powers of Queen Elizabeth, she can: 1) dismiss and appoint the Prime Minister, 2) dismiss and appoint other ministers, 3) summon and prorogue Parliament, 4) grant or refuse Royal Assent to bills (making them valid and law), 5) commission officers in the army, 6) command the army, 7) appoint members to the Privy Council, 8) issue and withdraw passports, 9) grant prerogative of mercy, 10) grant honours, 11) create corporations by Royal Charter, 12) appoint bishops and archbishops of the Church of England, 13) ratify and make treaties, 14) declare war and peace, 15) recognise states, 16) accredit and receive diplomats, 17) fill vacancies in the Supreme Court.Only since 2011 the Queen doesn´t have the power to dissolve parliament anymore (in the Netherlands the King does have this power).
    The conclusion can only be that British Queen is nothing but a dictator. Please note that it’s Elizabeth that appointed Prime Minister Theresa May and dismissed the other ministers and secretaries over Brexit.

    The Queen can make new laws by “Orders in Council” that either come in effect immediately as sort of a decree (Royal Prerogatives), but can be repealed by the Parliament, or with an act of Parliament. There is only one other institute in Britain that can propose laws, this is not the democratically elected House of Commons, but the Queen’s Privy Council that can propose Orders of Council without the Queen´s approval. Although I doubt if this is possible for all types of laws (and still the Royal assent is required).
    To make things even less democratic than in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, there’s the House of Lords (peers) most of which get appointed by the Queen. There used to be more “hereditary peers” in the House of Lords, but this has been restricted to 92 (of a grand total of 798), to give the Queen even more freedom to choose whomever she wants. Formally the House of Lords since 1911 cannot prevent Bills from coming into effect (a veto), but in reality has done so regularly.

    According to the following story Elizabeth has a number of cartoonish powers (but I don’t think it’s funny). The Queen has her personal cash printing machine. She doesn’t have to pay taxes but does so voluntarily (does anybody believe this?). Elizabeth is immune from prosecution. In 1975 Queen Elizabeth ordered the Governor-General to fire the Prime Minister of Australia: http://uk.businessinsider.com/weirde...olphins-2015-5

    In 2013 it was made public that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Charles in 39 occasions used their power to block bills (while we are made to believe that the last time the Royal assent was used to block a law was in 1708). In one occasion Elizabeth torpedoed the transfer of powers to authorise military intervention in Iraq from the Queen to the parliament: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/...als-veto-bills


    THE COLONIES / CANADA
    All the countries of the Commonwealth with a Governor-General are in effect colonies under the reign of Queen Elizabeth II (see the dismissal of the Australian Prime Minister in 1975). The following colonies have a Governor-General (in between brackets the year they were established with Governor-General): Antigua and Barbuda (since 1981), Australia (1901), Bahamas (1973), Barbados (1966), Belize (1981), Canada (1867), Grenada (1974), Jamaica (1962), New Zealand (1917), Papua New Guinea (1975), Saint Kitts and Nevis (1983), Saint Lucia (1979), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1979), Solomon Islands (1978), Tuvalu (1978).

    Canada was created by an act of the Parliament of Great Britain called the British North America Act, 1867 (the Constitution Act, 1867). This has never been repealed, so – by law – Canada is a colony of England. If you understand that words like “constitutional convention”, don´t mean that the Queen doesn´t use these powers you already know she is the ruling dictator of the British Empire; in the following is all the evidence you need to know that Canada is part of the dictatorship of Queen Elizabeth II: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/just/05.html
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...British-Empire
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  21. #18
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50099540

    Needs 320 votes to pass.

    The new deal, agreed by Mr Johnson and the EU on Thursday, is similar to the one agreed by Theresa May last year - but it removes the controversial backstop clause, which critics say could have kept the UK tied indefinitely to EU customs rules.

    Northern Ireland would remain in the UK's customs union under the new agreement, but there would also be customs checks on some goods passing through en route to Ireland and the EU single market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Zippy, are you going to get up early tomorrow to watch the shenanigans?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    I've pretty much lost all faith that Brexit is going to happen.
    The longer they stay in the EU and the worse it gets the more opportunity they'll have to say the Brexiteers are right. The only way I see support for Brexit weakening in the long term is if Brussels suddenly starts giving up its power and more than anything else, I do not anticipate that happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    The longer they stay in the EU and the worse it gets the more opportunity they'll have to say the Brexiteers are right. The only way I see support for Brexit weakening in the long term is if Brussels suddenly starts giving up its power and more than anything else, I do not anticipate that happening.
    Brexit will happen, but it will be ugly. Johnson wants an election before people start seeing how it actually impacts them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Brexit will happen, but it will be ugly. Johnson wants an election before people start seeing how it actually impacts them.
    Staying will be worse and they need an election because the current parliament doesn't represent the people.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    French President Emmanuel Macron heaped pressure on the British Parliament to back Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, saying the U.K.’s departure from the European Union shouldn’t be delayed a moment longer.With Parliament due to vote on the revised agreement on Saturday, Macron’s remarks echoed the message Johnson himself has been sending to reticent MPs: it’s now or never.
    "I don’t think a new extension should be granted," Macron told reporters after a summit of EU leaders in Brussels, where the deal had been rubber stamped. "The Oct. 31 deadline must be met."
    Macron’s stance increases the risk that the U.K. will crash out of the EU without a deal on Oct. 31.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/macron-says-u...131158622.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Boris Johnson’s hopes of finally obtaining parliament’s consent on Saturday for a historic deal to take the UK out of the European Union look set to be thwarted by an extraordinary bid by MPs to delay the crucial “meaningful vote”.
    Ahead of the highly unusual weekend sitting of the Commons, the prime minister was pulling out all the stops to secure the 320 votes he needs to claim victory in what was expected to be a razor-edge ballot, with the balance held by wavering Labour MPs, hardline ERG “Spartans” and expelled Tory rebels.

    But an amendment to his motion tabled by exiled Conservative Oliver Letwin threatens to withhold MPs’ approval until the full legislation to implement the deal is put into law.
    With Labour expected to back the amendment, it seems almost certain to pass if selected for debate by Commons speaker John Bercow.

    The move – designed to avoid no-deal Brexit if the legislation is amended by Brexiteers or fails to complete its passage through parliament by Halloween – would force Mr Johnson to request an extension from Brussels beyond 31 October and could delay the meaningful vote for weeks.
    Although Downing Street indicated it would still push Mr Johnson’s motion to a vote in the hope of a symbolic win, success for the Letwin amendment would deny him the chance to claim he has parliament’s support for the last-minute deal struck with EU leaders on Thursday.

    And if the motion fails, he could then face a non-binding vote on a second referendum put forward by Labour backbenchers Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson with the aim of demonstrating that a majority in the Commons back a public ballot on any future change to the relationship between the UK and EU.


    The drama came as the result of the vote – if it is held – remained impossible to call, with No 10 buoyed by winning over some Labour rebels while whittling down opposition in its own ranks.
    Up to nine Labour MPs are now expected to vote with the Conservatives, after Ronnie Campbell, Sarah Champion and Melanie Onn – who all represent Leave-backing seats – spoke out.
    With at least 12 Tory opponents of Theresa May’s deal announcing they would swing behind the prime minister’s reworked version, his chances of victory were growing.


    Johnson made a last-minute effort to lure Labour MPs with a set of concessions on workplace and environmental safeguards announced late on Friday night.
    But the package - including a promise that ministers will report to parliament on whether the UK will match future EU employment regulations and a pledge not to open UK markets to countries with low environmental and animal welfare standards - was dismissed by Labour’s Laura Pidcock as an “empty gesture not worth the paper it’s written on”.
    Labour was locked in a civil war over the punishment to be meted out to its rebels, with Momentum founder Jon Lansman demanding they be expelled, while Jeremy Corbyn insisted they would not.

    The Letwin amendment has been tabled to close a loophole in the Benn Act, designed to ensure Mr Johnson must seek to delay Brexit if a deal has not been approved by 11pm on Saturday.
    The loophole would allow the prime minister to escape the commitment of seeking a delay if the vote on his deal passes, even though a full withdrawal agreement bill is also needed to ratify the deal – leaving the UK open the risk of a crash-out on 31 October if the bill failed to pass in time.
    A furious government source described the amendment as something that “looks as reasonable as possible, but is designed to frustrate the process”.

    More at: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9162106.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    One of the complaints was that there was not time to read the agreement prior to voting on it. "You have to vote on it before you get to read it". So they voted to delay things again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, that is the new tactic from all the trolls.
    They just assert lies over and over no matter how often they are exposed.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  30. #26
    Those folks should remember, the only thing that kept England from being part of Europe for centuries, was the English Channel.

  31. #27
    UK Parliament has vote for more delay...
    Here’s the letter Bullingdon Boy Boris sent to the EU.


    In the letter, Boris Johnson also made it clear that if Brussels don't give the government more time, it could have serious consequences after Tory rebel Letwin blocked his new deal. He added that he hoped faced with his new deal or no deal, MPs would this time choose the latter as he intends to leave the EU in 12 days.
    In a day of high-drama in the House of Commons, MPs voted for the Tory rebel’s wrecking amendment by 322 to 306, and torpedoed Boris' plans to pass a deal. The so-called Super Saturday turned into Pointless Saturday after the Tory rebel sabotage.
    Instead the PM was going to be forced to ask the EU for a THIRD time to delay Britain's departure from the EU.
    (...)
    In his first letter last night, the PM outlined how Brussels could reject the delay as they are also aiming for Britain to leave the EU on Halloween. Mr Johnson pointed out that as the EU leaders "have made it clear they do not want more delay" they could well reject the idea altogether.
    The Government decided to cancel the main Brexit vote after the plot won the day yesterday - prompting disgusted Tory MPs to walk out of the chamber in dramatic scenes.
    (...)
    Ten former Tories teamed up with Labour, the Lib Dems, SNP, DUP and a spread of independents to force the plot through.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit...e-latest-news/
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  32. #28
    On Tuesday, British MPs approved legislation, supporting Brexit in principle, with a 329 – 299 majority.
    Also on Tuesday, British MPs voted against the fast-track Brexit by a 322 – 308 margin.

    Johnson expressed disappointment that the House has voted for delay, adding:
    The EU must now make up their mind over how to answer parliament’s request for a delay…Until they have reached a decision, we will pause this legislation. Let me be clear, our policy remains that we should not delay.
    The EU still has to decide on another Brexit extension from 31 October until 31 January (2020?).
    Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage said the UK won’t leave the EU on October 31: https://www.davidicke.com/article/55...ects-timetable
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    On Tuesday, British MPs approved legislation, supporting Brexit in principle, with a 329 – 299 majority.
    Also on Tuesday, British MPs voted against the fast-track Brexit by a 322 – 308 margin.

    Johnson expressed disappointment that the House has voted for delay, adding:

    The EU still has to decide on another Brexit extension from 31 October until 31 January (2020?).
    Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage said the UK won’t leave the EU on October 31: https://www.davidicke.com/article/55...ects-timetable

    Arron Banks one of the 'bad boys of Brexit' and founder of Leave.EU is very active on twitter.

    Check it out Firestarter:

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks

  34. #30
    Boris Johnson's "do or die" pledge to leave the EU on 31 October is now DEAD. The EU has agreed in principle to extend Brexit until 31 January 2020. Because of the Benn Act, Bojo the clown is required to accept the extension.

    EU Council President Donald Tusk said it was a "flextension" because the UK can leave whenever a deal is approved by UK Parliament. Tusk will wait for the UK's formal agreement to the extension, before formalising it with the 27 other EU nations.

    PM Johnson is now asking MPs to agree to a new timetable for a “finalised Brexit” and an election on 12 December. British MPs will vote on the new election after 18:00 GMT.
    Labour has said it will not back an early general election until a no-deal Brexit is off the table: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50205603
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3



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