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Thread: Litmus Test: Who Supports The MIC/Neoconservative Agenda?

  1. #1

    Litmus Test: Who Supports The MIC/Neoconservative Agenda?

    House Resolution: Opposing the decision to end certain United States efforts to prevent Turkish military operations against Syrian Kurdish forces in Northeast Syria

    A “Nay” vote supports Trump’s decision to remove US Troops from Syria.

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll560.xml

    All Nays were Republicans. Amash and Gabbard took a pass on this vote.

    ---- NAYS 60 ---

    Abraham
    Allen
    Babin
    Baird
    Bergman
    Biggs
    Brooks (AL)
    Burchett
    Burgess
    Byrne
    Carter (TX)
    Comer
    Davidson (OH)
    DesJarlais
    Duncan
    Dunn
    Estes
    Fleischmann
    Fulcher
    Gaetz
    Gohmert
    Gooden
    Gosar
    Graves (GA)
    Guest
    Harris
    Hollingsworth
    Hunter
    Jordan
    Joyce (PA)
    Kelly (MS)
    King (IA)
    Lesko
    Long
    Loudermilk
    Luetkemeyer
    Marshall
    Massie
    Mast
    McClintock
    Meadows
    Meuser
    Miller
    Mooney (WV)
    Mullin
    Murphy (NC)
    Norman
    Palazzo
    Pence
    Posey
    Reed
    Rice (SC)
    Rose, John W.
    Rutherford
    Smith (MO)
    Steube
    Walberg
    Watkins
    Weber (TX)
    Williams
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    House Resolution: Opposing the decision to end certain United States efforts to prevent Turkish military operations against Syrian Kurdish forces in Northeast Syria

    A “Nay” vote supports Trump’s decision to remove US Troops from Syria.

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll560.xml

    All Nays were Republicans. Amash and Gabbard took a pass on this vote.
    Amash abstained?
    Does he just hate Trump that much? or is he like Gabbard, a phony who doesn't really support bringing the troops home if it might actually happen?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Hopefully the advertized 'we're getting out of mideast' claims will translate to reality this time.

    Would add that symbolic votes like statements sometimes can be just 'lip service', follow the money seems to be more reliable litmus test. Future continued or aborted funding of Congress members/MAGA would be a better indicator of what is really taking place.

    As for MIC, it would get far bigger bang for the $buck from 14,000 US troops just shipped by MAGA to mideast/ Saudi regions since May 2019 to Oct 2019 to 'countrer Iranian provocations' than seeing any impact from relocation of 50 troops from one part of Syria to another. Syria is more proxy area.

  5. #4
    Question is, how many of them actually want to leave Syria and didn't just vote that way because they want to be on good terms with the president?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  6. #5
    Rand Paul blocks unanimous consent on this resolution in the Senate...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UO-wbVQcR0
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Good work Dr. Paul! Well $#@!in' put!

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Question is, how many of them actually want to leave Syria and didn't just vote that way because they want to be on good terms with the president?
    You never know. But pandering to the entire MIC establishment seems like the more likely safe move by a politician.

    Michael Savage has twisted himself into a pretzel trying to oppose the withdrawal of troops. It’s a little pathetic. He was trying to say that if you support Trump on this specific issue, you are a weak, brainwashed cult follower of Trump. Savage is the brave dissent (in his eyes).

    This is a litmus test for the media too.

    Savage and Ben Shapiro have been very vocal in their opposition to troop removal. I haven’t caught much of the other major hosts to know where they stand. Pretty sure Tucker supports the removal.

    This is really all about policing the world and nation-building. Just about all of the teocons said they oppose that. But what happens when the rubber hits the road?
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 10-17-2019 at 01:00 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Amash abstained?
    Does he just hate Trump that much? or is he like Gabbard, a phony who doesn't really support bringing the troops home if it might actually happen?
    You would think they would both vote “nay”, but as many have portrayed this as blind support for Trump, they avoided it.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Amash abstained?
    Does he just hate Trump that much? or is he like Gabbard, a phony who doesn't really support bringing the troops home if it might actually happen?
    Well, maybe Amash just doesn't want to get assassinated...

  12. #10
    The Agenda has Not changed.
    We still support the Israeli/Saudi Goals and interests in the area..

    I would welcome Trumps claim of leaving if there was any TRUTH in it.

    there ain't.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You would think they would both vote “nay”, but as many have portrayed this as blind support for Trump, they avoided it.
    They both are pussies. As to Amash, its a sign when TDS overrides one's supposed principles.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Well, maybe Amash just doesn't want to get assassinated...
    Amash is just one of hundreds in Congress, his removal would not be worth the trouble even if he was legitimate.
    The President has much more power, is doing more than Amash here and is risking impeachment to do so, if he went farther without getting his ducks in a row he would be impeached or assassinated.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You never know. But pandering to the entire MIC establishment seems like the more likely safe move by a politician.

    Michael Savage has twisted himself into a pretzel trying to oppose the withdrawal of troops. It’s a little pathetic. He was trying to say that if you support Trump on this specific issue, you are a weak, brainwashed cult follower of Trump. Savage is the brave dissent (in his eyes).

    This is a litmus test for the media too.

    Savage and Ben Shapiro have been very vocal in their opposition to troop removal. I haven’t caught much of the other major hosts to know where they stand. Pretty sure Tucker supports the removal.

    This is really all about policing the world and nation-building. Just about all of the teocons said they oppose that. But what happens when the rubber hits the road?
    I caught a glimpse of Hannity and I think he was saying yesterday he supports the removal of our troops as well. Then again this is the same guy who also wants Trump to go to war with Iran and is also a known teocon. Most likely only said that because he doesn't want to feel Trumps wrath.
    Last edited by Anti Globalist; 10-17-2019 at 03:07 PM.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  16. #14
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    Glad to see that my Representative was 1 of the 60 correct votes.

    I can't help but notice that Amash was a coward.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  17. #15
    //
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    At the 16:00 mark, Ron talks about how this vote was “discouraging”...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    ^Agree with Rand in that video. Give credit where credit is due. Even if Trump is mostly talk about getting us out of everywhere it’s still MUCH better than the neocon bull$#@!. Keep it up.

  21. #18
    Its just so hilarious that Trump exposes so much hypocrisy even within the libertarian crowds.

    All of the Tulsi cheering and supporting because she's so hip to the anti-war.

    In the end its all about politics, even for Amash, one of our most so called purest of libertarians.

    So quit yer yappin about Rand. I would call out people specifically but its just not worth the extra effort.
    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    So if Rand Paul holds the same exact position as his father, it makes him embarrassing?

    Hmmm...ok r3volution 3.0

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Its just so hilarious that Trump exposes so much hypocrisy even within the libertarian crowds.

    All of the Tulsi cheering and supporting because she's so hip to the anti-war.

    In the end its all about politics, even for Amash, one of our most so called purest of libertarians.

    So quit yer yappin about Rand. I would call out people specifically but its just not worth the extra effort.
    It's about contrarianism for many but it's about America hate for others, the leftarians have a secret crush on the Demoncrats because they are the party of America hate and they will grasp at any straw to adore one but the slightest imperfection by a Republican or even a libertarian who runs as a Republican opens them up to white hot hate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Its just so hilarious that Trump exposes so much hypocrisy even within the libertarian crowds.

    All of the Tulsi cheering and supporting because she's so hip to the anti-war.

    In the end its all about politics, even for Amash, one of our most so called purest of libertarians.

    So quit yer yappin about Rand. I would call out people specifically but its just not worth the extra effort.
    Lots of virtue signalling going on all the way around these days.
    "The Patriarch"

  24. #21
    The MIC doesn't care if the troops are in NE Syria or SE Syria.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The MIC doesn't care if the troops are in NE Syria or SE Syria.
    They are howling mad they didn't get a war with Turkey.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are howling mad they didn't get a war with Turkey.
    They who?


    Every person appointed to the DOD by Trump is a MIC VP or higher.



    Never in the history of the country has the MIC had a more favorable administration.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The MIC doesn't care if the troops are in NE Syria or SE Syria.
    Bull$#@!. They want them front and center, not stepping out of the way of conflict.
    "The Patriarch"



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Bull$#@!. They want them front and center, not stepping out of the way of conflict.
    Yep. They want escalation.

    The question is really, do people support getting the troops home? No need to place conditions on it like, "well if it were true . . ." or "he's not really bringing anyone home so I'm gonna poo-poo on the whole idea . . ."

    The alternative is that we join in the chorus of liberals, neocons, media talking heads, advisors, warmongering reps and senators, MIC vultures, etc. sending a message to the president that he always sucks and is making a mistake. FFS, The president is quite outnumbered on this so it might not be a bad idea to let him know he's not alone.

    Ron Paul is not above pointing out when the president makes a right move. But pride is a damning thing for many here.

    I'm gonna reiterate what I said in another post:

    I think what people are most afraid of is that they might have to admit they were—at least somewhat—wrong about Trump. I don't care if you are a libertarian, conservative, or liberal, having to admit you were wrong is a humbling and sometimes humiliating experience. It is the price a person must pay for having strong opinions.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 10-19-2019 at 08:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Yep. They want escalation.

    The question is really, do people support getting the troops home? No need to place conditions on it like, "well if it were true . . ." or "he's not really bringing anyone home so I'm gonna poo-poo on the whole idea . . ."

    The alternative is that we join in the chorus of liberals, neocons, media talking heads, advisors, warmongering reps and senators, MIC vultures, etc. sending a message to the president that he always sucks and is making a mistake. FFS, The president is quite outnumbered on this so it might not be a bad idea to let him know he's not alone.

    Ron Paul is not above pointing out when the president makes a right move. But pride is a damning thing for many here.

    I'm gonna reiterate what I said in another post:

    I think what people are most afraid of is that they might have to admit they were—at least somewhat—wrong about Trump. I don't care if you are a libertarian, conservative, or liberal, having to admit you were wrong is a humbling and sometimes humiliating experience. It is the price a person must pay for having strong opinions.
    I want to be wrong, and hope to hell I was. Some things are starting to become clear about him despite his continual diatribes and so on. He doesn't enter into military conflict recklessly and I think he really would like to get us out of being world police. And anyone who desires the same better stand up and cheer.

    That's not to say he's RP or that he's great on every issue, clearly he isn't. I don't like his willingness to sanction and interfere with other countries politics, that and a bunch of issues. But if he stays this course and continues progress in this direction he's getting a Trump sign on my lawn and a MAGA hat on my head. (lol, I can just see the look on my ol' lady's face..)

    If he doesn't continue along the path he has now laid out for himself on this then any support from me will vanish.
    "The Patriarch"

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post

    That's not to say he's RP or that he's great on every issue, clearly he isn't. I don't like his willingness to sanction and interfere with other countries politics, that and a bunch of issues. But if he stays this course and continues progress in this direction he's getting a Trump sign on my lawn and a MAGA hat on my head. (lol, I can just see the look on my ol' lady's face..)
    Not by a longshot, haha.

    Trump's an egotistical reality show star, and it's safe to say he's not driven by principles. People who make him out to be anything more (the wise savior!!!) or less (baby's blood-drinking tyrant!!!) than that are really straining too hard and should go grab a drink. Even so, I think people who say he wants to build a legacy are not far from the mark. I'm just guessing here, but, maybe he knows he won't build any such legacy by following in the exact footsteps of presidents before him.

    He loves the hate he gets, almost like it motivates him, but he doesn't like losing either, so I don't see what good it does to attack him from all angles, all the time, especially when he starts doing the right thing. If he starts to get the impression that he's lost the support of the people (he's a populist, don't forget), I wouldn't be surprised if he flip flops. There's nothing in it for him at that point.

    My biggest concern right now is a false flag. The MIC's been known to get desperate. I certainly don't think Trump has the fortitude to see past it and hang the real culprits if something like that happens. The current state of public opinion on our foreign policy, is also a fragile thing. A lot hangs in the balance and I'm not gonna go putting my finger on the scale. I'll leave that to the legion of liberal media talking heads and the horde of swamp creatures who already spend every waking moment obstructing any attempt at a sane foreign policy. They don't need our help, and I wish folks here wouldn't be so eager to give it.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 10-20-2019 at 06:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  32. #28
    I say send the very people who voted to have conflicts over instead. There would be world peace in an instant. It's too easy for these bastards to send our kids over, just like it is too easy for them to spend our money.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I say send the very people who voted to have conflicts over instead. There would be world peace in an instant. It's too easy for these bastards to send our kids over, just like it is too easy for them to spend our money.
    Echo that... must spread some rep.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Bull$#@!. They want them front and center, not stepping out of the way of conflict.
    No, because the MIC sells equipment to Turkey, and that would end in the event of a conflict.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

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