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Thread: Requiem for a Constitution

  1. #1

    Requiem for a Constitution

    The US government refuses to take my American client off a Kill List

    ------------

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a9127116.html

    Does the US Constitution allow President Donald Trump to order the assassination of innocent Americans in total secrecy? Such a question seems absurd; unfortunately, a US District judge has just answered in the affirmative.

    Bilal Kareem is a US citizen of Syrian origin, who was living in Brooklyn and working as a stand-up comedian. Frustrated by the news coverage of the conflict in Syria and especially the failure of journalists to interview and try to understand the experience of the people actually involved in the conflict, Kareem moved to Aleppo and established the YouTube channel On the Ground News TV, which provided content to news outlets around the world.

    Suddenly, drones started firing missiles at him. In the summer of 2016, he was nearly killed by Hellfire missiles fired by Predator drones five times.

    Nobody but the US had weaponized drones in the region at the time. Based on publicly available information about how the US uses cellphone data to identify targets, it seemed likely that the US government had concluded, probably based upon its algorithms, that because Bilal Kareem was spending time interviewing rebels, he was a rebel himself. The result of using software to determine who to kill resulted in the US targeting one of its own, who was actually engaging in a deeply important First Amendment activity.

    In 2017, Reprieve and my law firm filed a suit on behalf of Kareem and another Syria-based journalist in Washington DC, arguing that they had a due process right not to be placed on a Kill List and targeted for execution without being able to challenge the basis for that decision.

    “He seeks his birthright,” wrote Judge Rosemary Collyer, a George W Bush appointee, “…a timely assertion of his due process rights under the Constitution to be heard before he might be included on the Kill List and his First Amendment rights to free speech before he might be targeted for lethal action due to his profession.”

    This was a landmark ruling, and to most readers it would seem like common sense. However, the government then sought to dismiss it on the grounds that the government would have to reveal “state secrets” in telling Kareem whether or not he had been targeted and why.

    This was a case in which the state secrets privilege would be tested against a US citizen’s right not to be killed by his government without some form of due process, and perhaps an opportunity to suggest why killing him was a mistake. The motion was accompanied by affidavits, largely classified, from the Director of National Intelligence and the Acting Secretary of Defense.

    We argued that the government’s claim to be able to inflict death by drone strike made Bilal Kareem akin to a criminal defendant in a capital case, albeit facing execution without trial. In cases where the government relies on state secrets to prosecute a crime, and refuses to disclose them, the government must dismiss the case. Here, the government could simply have stated that whether or not Kareem had ever been on the Kill List, or could promise to take no efforts to try to kill him. But the government was unwilling to do that. It sought to prevent any from any judicial oversight of its decision.

    The court found that the state secrets privilege was absolute; that the government had shown there was a national security concern that protected it from providing any information, even in a classified setting; and so any legal objection to Bilal Kareem’s assassination would be summarily dismissed.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-16-2019 at 11:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES



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  3. #2
    The "state secrets privillege" is absolute. But the fundamental natural rights of individuals, rights. that are supposed to be beyond the law-making power of government, are not.

    I woke up on Bizarro World today, didn't I?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    The "state secrets privillege" is absolute. But the fundamental natural rights of individuals, rights. that are supposed to be beyond the law-making power of government, are not.

    I woke up on Bizarro World today, didn't I?
    The bizarre part isn't that the powerful found the Bill of Rights too inconvenient to live. The bizarre part is, when Clintons are involved the partisans fill the air with indignation. Otherwise... Crickets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The bizarre part isn't that the powerful found the Bill of Rights too inconvenient to live. The bizarre part is, when Clintons are involved the partisans fill the air with indignation. Otherwise... Crickets.

    Sadly, I'm not finding that to be all that bizarre anymore. Just seems like business as usual around here nowadays.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    The "state secrets privillege" is absolute. But the fundamental natural rights of individuals, rights. that are supposed to be beyond the law-making power of government, are not.

    I woke up on Bizarro World today, didn't I?
    Today? Damn, I got here along time ago. How do I get back?
    "The Patriarch"

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Sadly, I'm not finding that to be all that bizarre anymore. Just seems like business as usual around here nowadays.
    Well, evil doesn't surprise me. It exists; it always has. The thing that continues to amaze me is the hypocrisy of those who virtue-signal outrage over it, unless 'their team' is the one perpetuating it.

    This GOP administration inherited this evil. But I don't see anything being done about it by The Great Swamp Drainers.

    Rah, rah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Well, evil doesn't surprise me. It exists; it always has. The thing that continues to amaze me is the hypocrisy of those who virtue-signal outrage over it, unless 'their team' is the one perpetuating it.

    This GOP administration inherited this evil. But I don't see anything being done about it by The Great Swamp Drainers.

    Rah, rah.

    Not to worry. I'm sure that from here on out only the "right" people will be put on "kill lists" for summary execution.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  9. #8
    Cmon now. I doubt Trump has ever hired assassins to kill someone even before he was president.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  11. #9

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Absolutely abhorrent.

    Which is why troops should be withdrawn asap.
    I'm ready for them to surround and lay seige to Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The bizarre part isn't that the powerful found the Bill of Rights too inconvenient to live. The bizarre part is, when Clintons are involved the partisans fill the air with indignation. Otherwise... Crickets.
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Sadly, I'm not finding that to be all that bizarre anymore. Just seems like business as usual around here nowadays.
    If only Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams would just quit obsessing about Clinton and Obama, this place would perfect!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    At the 14:20 mark Ron Paul reminds us that Obama and Hillary are to blame for the Syria mess. They supported regime change, and giving arms and other support to unreliable militants and extremists.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    If only Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams would just quit obsessing about Clinton and Obama, this place would perfect!
    No, Ron must declare America to be the great Satan for this place to be perfect, then we could all shout "Death to America" every time we log in.
    The banner at the top of the page should be changed to a burning American flag too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The banner at the top of the page should be changed to a burning American flag too.
    What does that flag represent? A nation bound together by a brilliant constitution? Or a government that sends machines to perform summary executions of its citizens?

    We aren't burning the flag by crying, "Foul!" The flag is burning, but we aren't doing it.

    And that is something your orange alpha seems unable or unwilling to address.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I didn't vote for Trump.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What does that flag represent? A nation bound together by a brilliant constitution? Or a government that sends machines to perform summary executions of its citizens?

    We aren't burning the flag by crying, "Foul!" The flag is burning, but we aren't doing it.

    And that is something your orange alpha seems unable or unwilling to address.


    Trump is turning things around as best he can, you are sitting back and throwing things at him while cheering for the destruction of the country and shouting about how evil it is.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    All smells like... tyranny.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  18. #16
    Apparently, unless you're willing to bend over and TAKE that Hellfire Missile while waving an American flag, singing Lee Greenwood and cheering both Donald Trump and a judicial decision that calls the "state secrets privilege" "absolute," placing it above the fundamental rights of individuals, well then by Tru, er, I mean God you must hate America. Who knew?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post


    Trump is turning things around as best he can, you are sitting back and throwing things at him while cheering for the destruction of the country and shouting about how evil it is.
    When I see Donald Trump I see Manchurian opposition to the destruction of liberty. The biggest thing he has going for him is the pretend contempt of the leaders of the left. Orange is the new black is about the most honest thing that could be said of him. The only way Donald Trump could be worse for liberty is if he were twins. Sorry Swordsmyth, your guy is an utter fraud.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    When I see Donald Trump I see Manchurian opposition to the destruction of liberty. The biggest thing he has going for him is the pretend contempt of the leaders of the left. Orange is the new black is about the most honest thing that could be said of him. The only way Donald Trump could be worse for liberty is if he were twins. Sorry Swordsmyth, your guy is an utter fraud.


    Nobody could do more than he is doing, he is far from perfect but his faults are much less a problem than the traitors in the bureaucracy and Congress.

    If he or any other POTUS tried to do more and compromise less they would be impeached (they are perilously close to doing that anyway) or assassinated. (There have been some attempts already)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post


    Nobody could do more than he is doing, he is far from perfect but his faults are much less a problem than the traitors in the bureaucracy and Congress.

    If he or any other POTUS tried to do more and compromise less they would be impeached (they are perilously close to doing that anyway) or assassinated. (There have been some attempts already)
    Meh, in any case I'd take acptulsa over the entire Republican Party, especially the brass tool--and I've never even met him. Not alone in that I'm sure. I don't understand why you push for Trump here, while you admit that he is far from perfect, instead of pushing for better liberty candidates in Trump's forums? You could really get something going.
    Last edited by bv3; 10-17-2019 at 12:02 AM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Meh, in any case I'd take acptulsa over the entire Republican Party, especially the brass tool--and I've never even met him. Not alone in that I'm sure. I don't understand why you push for Trump here, while you admit that he is far from perfect, instead of pushing for better liberty candidates in Trump's forums? You could really get something going.
    I push for the best available candidate and to support those who are more good than bad wherever I post, there is no better alternative to Trump at this time. (I have said I would support a better candidate before and I would but they wouldn't be able to accomplish any more than Trump)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What does that flag represent? A nation bound together by a brilliant constitution? Or a government that sends machines to perform summary executions of its citizens?

    We aren't burning the flag by crying, "Foul!" The flag is burning, but we aren't doing it.

    And that is something your orange alpha seems unable or unwilling to address.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again.
    /kurwa
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I push for the best available candidate and to support those who are more good than bad wherever I post, there is no better alternative to Trump at this time. (I have said I would support a better candidate before and I would but they wouldn't be able to accomplish any more than Trump)
    You are a bit too thoughtful to actually hold that position...because its ridiculous. In the absence of a war declaration our military is deployed at the pleasure of the president: why are they still deployed? Don't say global stability, and don't say China--expending trillions in treasure has decreased the one while empowering the other.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Absolutely abhorrent.

    Which is why troops should be withdrawn asap.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.
    /KURWA damn repper's broke toady
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post

    /KURWA damn repper's broke toady

    Covered.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    You are a bit too thoughtful to actually hold that position...because its ridiculous. In the absence of a war declaration our military is deployed at the pleasure of the president: why are they still deployed? Don't say global stability, and don't say China--expending trillions in treasure has decreased the one while empowering the other.
    You are oversimplifying politics, what the President has the technical power to do and what he can do without being railroaded out of office or assassinated are not the same at all, Trump must compromise with some factions to stay alive and in office, he has tried to reduce how much he gives in those compromises and it has brought him to the cusp of impeachment.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Today? Damn, I got here along time ago. How do I get back?

    Sorry brother. It's kinda like a Black Flag Roach Motel for liberty lovers. We can check in, but we don't check out.

    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are oversimplifying politics, what the President has the technical power to do and what he can do without being railroaded out of office or assassinated are not the same at all, Trump must compromise with some factions to stay alive and in office, he has tried to reduce how much he gives in those compromises and it has brought him to the cusp of impeachment.
    No, that point is just as simple as it seems: the president is the commander in chief, thus the president--in the absence of an actual war (as declared by congress) is entirely responsible for continued foreign adventures or, if he is truly wishes the country well, the end of those adventures.

    If your support of Trump is seriously based on him merely doing what he can to not be assassinated then you admit implicitly that he is a coward and unfit to bear the standard of liberty. You are essentially saying that Trump is holding us hostage to stay alive and in power.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    No, that point is just as simple as it seems: the president is the commander in chief, thus the president--in the absence of an actual war (as declared by congress) is entirely responsible for continued foreign adventures or, if he is truly wishes the country well, the end of those adventures.

    If your support of Trump is seriously based on him merely doing what he can to not be assassinated then you admit implicitly that he is a coward and unfit to bear the standard of liberty. You are essentially saying that Trump is holding us hostage to stay alive and in power.
    Congress and the deepstate are holding us hostage and Trump is the hostage negotiator, Congress can and will impeach him over made up garbage completely unrelated to the foreign policy they object to if he doesn't play his cards right, we are in the midst of an attempt to culminate that plan right now which means he has come as close to defying the establishment as he can or has even gone too far because the left thinks they can get away with actually pulling the trigger on impeachment, we will see if they are correct.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress and the deepstate are holding us hostage and Trump is the hostage negotiator, Congress can and will impeach him over made up garbage completely unrelated to the foreign policy they object to if he doesn't play his cards right, we are in the midst of an attempt to culminate that plan right now which means he has come as close to defying the establishment as he can or has even gone too far because the left thinks they can get away with actually pulling the trigger on impeachment, we will see if they are correct.
    I do not care. Bring the troops home and risk the trial. Its what an honest president would do. Even if he is impeached, what possible candidate would be able to redeploy the troops? It would never happen. He could very easily do the country he claims to love a great service--but doesn't.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    I do not care. Bring the troops home and risk the trial. Its what an honest president would do. Even if he is impeached, what possible candidate would be able to redeploy the troops? It would never happen. He could very easily do the country he claims to love a great service--but doesn't.
    There are quite a few wars waiting to be started that Trump is resisting but that Pence would start or that POTUS Pelosi (they want to get rid of Pence too) would start.
    Trump is doing the country a great service and that's only talking about wars without even getting into the domestic issues that POTUS Pelosi would inflict on us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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