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Thread: Hungary’s New Border Wall Called A ‘Spectacular Success’

  1. #31
    So was East Germany's.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pedro DOES pose a threat.

    If fire wasn't hot could you dance in it without getting burned?

    Your whole premise is that I endorse group rights where they aren't required to protect individual rights but that isn't true.
    You're refusing to answer the question because you know that your answer would prove my point.

    i.e. that you put "group rights" over individual rights
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You're refusing to answer the question because you know that your answer would prove my point.

    i.e. that you put "group rights" over individual rights
    I'm refusing to answer a stupid question about an impossibility, the answer is that Pedro is a threat and always will be, you don't want to admit that because it undermines your whole argument.

    Even if I did answer your question the way you want it answered it would prove nothing about the real world, it would only prove that in your imaginary world Pedro should be allowed to go wherever he wants.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    So was East Germany's.
    And?

    A wall to keep enemies out has no bearing on a wall to keep prisoners in.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    So was East Germany's.
    Anarcho-libertarians: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"
    Also Anarcho-libertarians: "People don't hold people captive, walls hold people captive"
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Anarcho-libertarians: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"
    Also Anarcho-libertarians: "People don't hold people captive, walls hold people captive"

    LOL!

    Must have struck a nerve to warrant 2 responses to the same post. Triggered much?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  9. #37
    Dupe
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pedro is a threat and always will be
    Why?

    ...and why does this not apply to anyone traveling within the US?

    ...or does it, and "the group" should also have the right to prohibit Bob from inviting over his other neighbor, Peter?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Why?

    ...and why does this not apply to anyone traveling within the US?
    Culture, people within the US share a great deal of culture that Pedro doesn't, particularly regarding political culture.
    And yet as the people of the US have had their culture diverge (greatly worsened by excessive immigration) the danger of Californians destroying liberty in other states (or residents of other Demoncrat states) gets worse and worse and will one day force division or civil war.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    LOL!

    Must have struck a nerve to warrant 2 responses to the same post. Triggered much?
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Dupe
    LOL





    I just thought of something else after posting.

    It's a nice attempt at avoiding my point though.

    It is the invaders that are a threat to further degrade liberty in Hungary NOT the wall.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Culture, people within the US share a great deal of culture that Pedro doesn't, particularly regarding political culture.
    So, to be clear, you're telling me that there is no conceivable immigrant who wouldn't (in virtue of his inferior culture) be a threat?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So, to be clear, you're telling me that there is no conceivable immigrant who wouldn't (in virtue of his inferior culture) be a threat?
    Find a culture that is more liberty oriented or even just as liberty oriented as ours and we can talk, but since immigration is a group decision you will have to convince the group, then we can change the rules and allow unlimited access to America from that culture.
    (Since liberty is composed of rules about how you interact with others those who violate legitimate rules {and immigration rules are legitimate as I have been explaining} are a threat)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Find a culture that is more liberty oriented or even just as liberty oriented as ours and we can talk, but since immigration is a group decision you will have to convince the group, then we can change the rules and allow unlimited access to America from that culture.
    (Since liberty is composed of rules about how you interact with others those who violate legitimate rules {and immigration rules are legitimate as I have been explaining} are a threat)
    If the country of destination were Mexico, and the immigrant were Ron Paul, would the Mexican "group" have the right to refuse him entry?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If the country of destination were Mexico, and the immigrant were Ron Paul, would the Mexican "group" have the right to refuse him entry?
    Yes, they don't have the ability to read his mind and be sure of his intentions so they must make broad rules covering groups.
    They also have a right to limit Americans as a group even though we are more liberty oriented because they don't agree that we are more correct than they are.
    You could say that in your belief you would have a right to try and conquer them and impose liberty on them but that wouldn't change their right to try and stop you.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    If the country of destination were Mexico, and the immigrant were Ron Paul, would the Mexican "group" have the right to refuse him entry?
    Yes
    Yikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, they don't have the ability to read his mind and be sure of his intentions so they must make broad rules covering groups.
    They also have a right to limit Americans as a group even though we are more liberty oriented because they don't agree that we are more correct than they are.
    You could say that in your belief you would have a right to try and conquer them and impose liberty on them but that wouldn't change their right to try and stop you.
    Is there any situation in which "the group" would be wrong, immoral, for denying someone entry?
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; Yesterday at 01:55 AM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Yikes



    Is there any situation in which "the group" would be wrong, immoral, for denying someone entry?
    They can be wrong and still be within their rights, immorality would require that the foreigner had some right to enter their territory which a generic foreigner would not.

    Foreigners might be a threat to them and they have a right to exercise judgement about that, strangers entering your house might be a threat to you and therefore you have a right to lock your doors even if some stranger might want to enter your house and give you something instead of taking things, if you make a wrong choice and keep Santa Claus out that doesn't change your right to lock your door.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They can be wrong and still be within their rights, immorality would require that the foreigner had some right to enter their territory which a generic foreigner would not.

    Foreigners might be a threat to them and they have a right to exercise judgement about that, strangers entering your house might be a threat to you and therefore you have a right to lock your doors even if some stranger might want to enter your house and give you something instead of taking things, if you make a wrong choice and keep Santa Claus out that doesn't change your right to lock your door.
    As to "the group" deciding whether to admit a particular immigrant, one of the following must be true:

    (1) the group has the right to make whatever decision it wants

    or (2) the group does not have the right to make whatever decision it wants

    Choose one.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Still ignoring the question...



    How many?

    1, 3, 30, 3000?

    Do you spin a roulette wheel?

    Do you have divine inspiration?

    Whence comes the number person-whose-entire-world-view-rests-on-this-concept?
    How many indigenous Hungarians do you feel you have a right to impose upon, in any measure?



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    As to "the group" deciding whether to admit a particular immigrant, one of the following must be true:

    (1) the group has the right to make whatever decision it wants

    or (2) the group does not have the right to make whatever decision it wants

    Choose one.
    I made it clear.
    The answer is 1.

    They can be wrong and still be within their rights, immorality would require that the foreigner had some right to enter their territory which a generic foreigner would not.

    Foreigners might be a threat to them and they have a right to exercise judgement about that, strangers entering your house might be a threat to you and therefore you have a right to lock your doors even if some stranger might want to enter your house and give you something instead of taking things, if you make a wrong choice and keep Santa Claus out that doesn't change your right to lock your door.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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