Should Cameras Replace Car Mirrors? US Regulators Want To Know

[DamianTV]

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/1...s-want-to-know

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a notice on Wednesday that is is seeking public and industry input on whether to allow so-called camera monitoring systems to replace rear- and side-view mirrors mandated by a longstanding U.S. auto safety standard. Tesla Inc. and the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers in 2014 petitioned the agency to allow cameras to be used in lieu of traditional mirrors, citing improved fuel economy through reduced aerodynamic drag as the primary benefit. Cameras feeding one or more displays inside the car could also improve rear and side visibility, the Auto Alliance has said.

A five-year agency study of the technology on heavy-duty vehicles found display screens were too bright, making it harder for drivers to see objects on the road ahead. NHTSA's 2017 tests of a prototype camera monitoring system found it was "generally usable" in most situations, and produced better-quality images than mirrors at dusk and dawn. It also found potential flaws, including displays that were too bright at night, distorted images and camera lenses that would become obscured by raindrops. NHTSA said in a notice in the online Federal Register is seeking outside research and data about the potential safety impacts of replacing mirrors with cameras to inform a possible proposal to alter the mirror requirement in the future.

[PursuePeace]

[CoastieInColorado]

No thanks, I prefer the real timeness that a mirror provides without the need for power to operate.

[Origanalist]

Idiocracy, it's real.

[sam1952]

I had a Cadillac loaner while mine was in the shop. I got in it and looked at the rear view mirror and said what the hell? It was like watching a movie rather then looking at me backing up. Luckily there was a switch to take it to a mirror view. Now I don’t mind the backup camera in my screen when I put the car in reverse and even have come to appreciate their benefit. But the mirror was just creepy.

Side note, when I was 16 and driving the family work van it had no rear window. I learned to use just the two side mirrors and did just fine.

Sometimes technology is just to much for old guys like me...

[PursuePeace]

Does everything have to involve looking at a screen?

What the hell is wrong with a mirror?
Nothing.

[Anti Federalist]

What the hell is wrong with a mirror?
Nothing.

Plenty, from the surveillance state's and insurance mafia's POV.

Rest assured, cameras that replace mirrors will have data logging features that will be used to convict you or raise your rates, as they record everything that happens.

I would say that they will be engineered to record you as well, but that's already being done by other onboard Big Brother systems, so, what the hell, amirite?

[Anti Globalist]

I'd prefer a mirror than a camera. The government will just hack those cameras and spy on me.

[Brian4Liberty]

I already have one.

[Brian4Liberty]

I had a Cadillac loaner while mine was in the shop. I got in it and looked at the rear view mirror and said what the hell? It was like watching a movie rather then looking at me backing up. Luckily there was a switch to take it to a mirror view. Now I don’t mind the backup camera in my screen when I put the car in reverse and even have come to appreciate their benefit. But the mirror was just creepy.

Side note, when I was 16 and driving the family work van it had no rear window. I learned to use just the two side mirrors and did just fine.

Sometimes technology is just to much for old guys like me...

It is definitely a different view than the regular mirror mode. One advantage of the camera is that if you can see the front end of the car in the lane next to you, you know that there is actually space between you and that front end. Now some would say that would be way too close to change lanes but you can imagine that may cause some abuse with close lane changing. Will cameras cause more accidents because of this?

The other advantage is that a camera rearview mirror will not be blocked by anything in your backseat or cargo area.

[TheTexan]

Should also get rid of all windows and replace them with lcd screens using cameras.

Noone really needs windows and the glass is a safety hazard.

[Brian4Liberty]

Should also get rid of all windows and replace them with lcd screens using cameras.

Noone really needs windows and the glass is a safety hazard.

Great idea! But you won't be able to get a patent on it, somebody already beat you to it.

[Dr.3D]

Great idea! But you won't be able to get a patent on it, somebody already beat you to it.

Hope the pilot has real windows. (imagines power failure or system trouble so there is no video)

[Brian4Liberty]

Rearview mirrors? Who needs them?

[oyarde]

Hell no.

[DamianTV]

Lets see, which costs more? Not just money, but like those of you smart enough to point out that cameras can get hacked, but privacy too?

[Anti Federalist]

Lets see, which costs more? Not just money, but like those of you smart enough to point out that cameras can get hacked, but privacy too?

More planned obsolescence.

These will be required to be operational for yearly inspections.

I can buy a replacement rear view mirror online for about $15.

These things will cost thousands to replace when they get knocked off, frozen, shorted out from water and road salt or just wear and tear.

[r3volution 3.0]

Regulations aside, I don't think I'd drive a car without mirrors.

If this becomes the norm, I'll be taking out the screens and screwing on some old mirrors.

[Anti Federalist]

Rearviews in the Rearview

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2019...-the-rearview/

By eric - October 11, 2019

Elon Musk wants you to pay more for your next new car – even if you don’t buy one of his cars.

The CEO of Tesla is “petitioning” the government to allow him – and everyone else – to eliminate rearview and exterior mirrors from new cars – in favor of in-car displays fed images by cameras. He says this will result in better aerodynamics and so, improved efficiency.

He doesn’t say what it will cost.

And not just Tesla buyers.

If this “petition” is successful, the rest of the industry will ape Elon – for the same reason you can’t find a new car without an LCD touchscreen or with a physical key for the ignition and door locks.

Elon is a media (and mandate) manufactured trend-setter. He is presented as “hip” and “with it.” The rest of the industry will not want to appear doughty and fuddy-duddy.

Besides which, there’s money in it. For Elon and them, too. Both up front – at purchase time – as well as down the line, when the time inevitably comes to replace a no-longer-functioning component which is also a mandatory saaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety component.

Nothing like a mandated “market” – something Elon specializes in.

But how much will this cost us?

First, let’s consider what we had, what we have – and what is on deck.

For decades, we had a purely mechanical rearview mirror consisting of a housing – usually metal or plastic – and a small piece of mirror. A $15 item – maybe – that did its just perfectly well and usually lasted the life of the car. My almost 50-year-old Trans-Am has its original rearview mirror – and it works as well today as it did back in the summer of ’75, when my car rolled off the line.

Outside rearview mirrors were more or less the same. A housing – metal or plastic – plus the small piece of mirror. Even when the first power-actuated mechanisms came online, they were still relatively simple and so relatively inexpensive.

What Elon wants won’t be.

We can get a hint of how much it won’t be by considering what it already costs to replace current rearview and side mirrors – which have become partially electronic. Most now include sensors and LED lights (part of the Blind Spot Warning system – the blind spots having been created by government saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafety mandates that have turned car interiors into tank turrets with slit-eye views of the outside world).

These are no longer just simple housings with a piece of mirror that cost less than $50 to replace if need be.

Damage one of these hybrid mechanical-electronic mirrors and the replacement cost is often $300 or even more, depending on how electronicized the mirrors are. They’re also very car-specific (like a modern car’s headlight “assemblies”) whereas in years past many models of car used the same side mirrors – or could use generic mirrors – which kept replacement costs reasonable.

Not anymore.

Same with the inside rearviews, which have become electronicized “black boxes” integrated with the windshield. It is not uncommon to have to spend $1,000 or even more to replace a broken windshield because of the rearview mirror – which is longer just a mirror. It often includes an LCD display and cameras.

Get ready for the doubling down.

To eliminate exterior mirrors entirely, it will take more cameras, erupting like zits all over the car. The images of the outside world will be conjured on a larger LCD displays inside the car.

In Teslas, everything is displayed on one hi-res flatscreen. Several other cars have a similar set-up. They are already aping Elon.

When the screen goes dark – or pixilates – it will have to be replaced.

This will not be cheap.

In part because of the technology and in part because the screen will be – is – brand-specific and proprietary (i.e., you have to buy the replacement from whomever built your vehicle at top-dollar mark-up) but also because almost no one will be able to replace it themselves, as they could easily do with a mechanical mirror you glued or screwed into place. Replacing the flatscreen will mean a trip to the dealership for the install and “programming” – at $100 per hour labor.

Probably a couple hours’ worth.

As the car ages, the cost of fixing – or replacing – this technology may outweigh the value of the car, urging it toward the recycling bin even sooner. This will be very green indeed – in terms of manufactured demand for new cars.

In the meanwhile, you won’t be able to see . . . anything when the screen goes dark.

Because everything was displayed on that screen. In the physical rearview days, if the glue lost its stick and the thing fell off, you still had both your side mirrors. And if you lost one of your side mirrors, you still had your rearview.

It is probably true that no car in the pre-electronic age ever lost all of its rear views at the same time. In the electronic remote-view age, this will probably become common due to sudden blackouts of the LCD screen. Or because the cameras on the exterior are covered by snow. And you can’t scrape cameras, buddy – not without scratching the paint.

Another cost – just not in dollars, per se.

And probably, unavoidable.

Also the cost of insurance – which will increase in proportion to the replacement cost of all this technology. We’re already paying higher premiums because of the cost – actual as well as potential – of electronicized rear and sideview mirrors.

Because of gadget-addledness. Because of tedium.

Cars have become so good – and so homogenous – that they’ve become boring. In order to make them interesting again, electronics are being used to perform every imaginable function – up to and including driving the car. This is considered “cool” – even if it offers no meaningful advantage.

A rip-tide effect is generated.

Consider, for example, how hard it has become – how almost impossible it has become – to find a new car that still has a key for the ignition (and doors) rather than a fob and buttons to push.

A key in the ignition starts the engine as quickly – and easily – as pushing a button, will probably outlast the car and if it ever does get lost or needs to be replaced, it’ll cost a couple of bucks . . . but not a couple hundred bucks, as keyless fobs often do.

As remote-view camera/LCD flatscreen “mirrors” will.

Americans have become like seagulls pecking at a piece of tinfoil on the beach. Anything that glints or blinks grabs their attention.

And their wallets, too.

[specsaregood]

Regulations aside, I don't think I'd drive a car without mirrors.
If this becomes the norm, I'll be taking out the screens and screwing on some old mirrors.

I put one of these in my old jeep without doors/side mirrors.
I liked it, I've pondered putting one in my current vehicle.

[euphemia]

No. Think how expensive those things would be to replace of the veh is wrecked or vandalized. You can buy a mirror and replace it yourself.

[pcosmar]

No. Think how expensive those things would be to replace of the veh is wrecked or vandalized. You can buy a mirror and replace it yourself.

Less is More.

[shakey1]

Too many friggin gadgets.

[Stratovarious]

Hell no, besides the latency and image reproduction, the built in field of view is not yet ready to
match that of which a person can see given available angles between him and
a mirror, hence a far superior field of view sans cameras.

[shakey1]

There... no bells, no whistles.... hmm, no mirrors either.