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Thread: Do term limits lead to gun control?

  1. #1

    Question Do term limits lead to gun control?

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  3. #2
    This article may earn me some criticism from many of my conservative friends and allies, but this is a discussion that is well worth having.
    Conservatives are often the biggest advocates for implementing term limits in the 21st century; their primary claim being that restricting the length of time a politician can be in office will somehow minimize the corruption in politics.
    Advocates also claim that term limits will hamper a politician’s ability to be influenced by special interests and the amount of power any one elected official can gain.
    Perhaps the biggest talking point for those who support term limits is that they want to get rid of career politicians.
    But term limits don’t actually work that way. Term limits do nothing to stop bad politicians, and they perhaps even enable bad politicians to do bad things.
    Let’s use Ohio and Florida for this case study.
    Term-Limited Republicans in Ohio Are Pushing for Gun Control
    In 1992, voters in Ohio approved Amendment 3, a ballot initiative that created term limits for state lawmakers.
    Amendment 3 forbids state senators from serving more than two successive terms of four years and forbids state representatives from serving more than four successive terms of two years.
    After more than two decades of term limits, Ohio must be the least corrupt state in the country with no career politicians, right?
    Wrong.
    One study concludes that Ohio is the seventh most corrupt state in the U.S.
    The Center for Public Integrity gave Ohio a “D” grade on its 2015 State Integrity Report.
    Not only did term limits not do what proponents claimed they would, these limits have also made it more difficult for the grassroots to hold politicians accountable for their votes.
    The recent push for gun control in the Buckeye State is one of the clearest examples of how term-limited politicians reject the will of their constituents.
    Term-limited Republican State Sen. Peggy Lehner is one of the most vocal advocates for gun control today. Lehner has aligned herself with Democrats Cecil Thomas and Sandra Williams to introduce legislation ranging from Universal Gun Registration to “Red Flag” Gun Confiscation.
    Republican State Sen. Bill Coley, Chairman of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee, held hearings on eight different gun control bills in the last couple weeks.
    Coley is also term-limited and has expressed support for Gov. Mike DeWine’s version of gun control.
    In the other chamber, Speaker of the House Larry Householder appears to be standing firm for the Second Amendment. It is no coincidence that Householder is up for reelection in 2020, when voters will surely consider his record on gun rights.
    Term-Limited Republicans in Florida Passed Gun Control
    As in Ohio, Florida voters approved a ballot initiative in 1992 that enacted legislative term limits restricting state senators to two, four-year terms and state representatives to four, two-year terms.
    In the study mentioned above, Florida ranked tenth on the list of most corrupt states, and the Center for Public Integrity gave Florida a “D” for state integrity as well.
    To make matters worse, Republican Senate President Bill Galvano led the crusade for gun control after the tragic shooting in Parkland, Florida. Galvano, who is term-limited and knew he wouldn’t have to face the voters again, drafted and rammed through the largest gun control expansion in Florida history.
    Republican State Sen. Anitere Flores from Miami has spent her last term in office serving as the designated assassin of all things pro-gun.
    But then there is Republican Sen. George Gainer who told me to my face that he was going to vote for Galvano’s gun control legislation in 2018. When his constituents began to overwhelm Gainer and his staff with phone calls demanding a “no” vote, he ultimately complied.
    Gainer’s change of heart was only possible because he knew he was going to run for office again, and his conservative district is unlikely to vote for someone who supports gun control.







    See the link in the OP for the rest.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    The swamp has an unlimited bench while we have a hard time finding anyone good, the bureaucracy isn't term limited, and term limits make politicians not have to worry about winning re-election.

    We need to get rid of the term limit on Presidents and get rid of all other term limits.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This article may earn me some criticism from many of my conservative friends and allies, but this is a discussion that is well worth having.
    Conservatives are often the biggest advocates for implementing term limits in the 21st century; their primary claim being that restricting the length of time a politician can be in office will somehow minimize the corruption in politics.
    Advocates also claim that term limits will hamper a politician’s ability to be influenced by special interests and the amount of power any one elected official can gain.
    Perhaps the biggest talking point for those who support term limits is that they want to get rid of career politicians.
    But term limits don’t actually work that way. Term limits do nothing to stop bad politicians, and they perhaps even enable bad politicians to do bad things.
    Let’s use Ohio and Florida for this case study.
    Term-Limited Republicans in Ohio Are Pushing for Gun Control
    In 1992, voters in Ohio approved Amendment 3, a ballot initiative that created term limits for state lawmakers.
    Amendment 3 forbids state senators from serving more than two successive terms of four years and forbids state representatives from serving more than four successive terms of two years.
    After more than two decades of term limits, Ohio must be the least corrupt state in the country with no career politicians, right?
    Wrong.
    One study concludes that Ohio is the seventh most corrupt state in the U.S.
    The Center for Public Integrity gave Ohio a “D” grade on its 2015 State Integrity Report.
    Not only did term limits not do what proponents claimed they would, these limits have also made it more difficult for the grassroots to hold politicians accountable for their votes.
    The recent push for gun control in the Buckeye State is one of the clearest examples of how term-limited politicians reject the will of their constituents.
    Term-limited Republican State Sen. Peggy Lehner is one of the most vocal advocates for gun control today. Lehner has aligned herself with Democrats Cecil Thomas and Sandra Williams to introduce legislation ranging from Universal Gun Registration to “Red Flag” Gun Confiscation.
    Republican State Sen. Bill Coley, Chairman of the Senate Government Oversight and Reform Committee, held hearings on eight different gun control bills in the last couple weeks.
    Coley is also term-limited and has expressed support for Gov. Mike DeWine’s version of gun control.
    In the other chamber, Speaker of the House Larry Householder appears to be standing firm for the Second Amendment. It is no coincidence that Householder is up for reelection in 2020, when voters will surely consider his record on gun rights.
    Term-Limited Republicans in Florida Passed Gun Control
    As in Ohio, Florida voters approved a ballot initiative in 1992 that enacted legislative term limits restricting state senators to two, four-year terms and state representatives to four, two-year terms.
    In the study mentioned above, Florida ranked tenth on the list of most corrupt states, and the Center for Public Integrity gave Florida a “D” for state integrity as well.
    To make matters worse, Republican Senate President Bill Galvano led the crusade for gun control after the tragic shooting in Parkland, Florida. Galvano, who is term-limited and knew he wouldn’t have to face the voters again, drafted and rammed through the largest gun control expansion in Florida history.
    Republican State Sen. Anitere Flores from Miami has spent her last term in office serving as the designated assassin of all things pro-gun.
    But then there is Republican Sen. George Gainer who told me to my face that he was going to vote for Galvano’s gun control legislation in 2018. When his constituents began to overwhelm Gainer and his staff with phone calls demanding a “no” vote, he ultimately complied.
    Gainer’s change of heart was only possible because he knew he was going to run for office again, and his conservative district is unlikely to vote for someone who supports gun control.







    See the link in the OP for the rest.
    Most of the examples you gave were before the Donald Trump Era. These were career politicians because they use the Stare level as a farm system for federal office. The governors were seeking the Presidency while state legislators were seeking Congress before running for President.

    The Donald Trump era changed all of this. Now most running for President won’t care about partisan politics or getting re-elected and are on a mission to get things done when elected. The most corrupt people in politics have been in politics most of their lives. GHWB, John McCain, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, etc.

    When Donald Trump won on November 9, 2016, everything changed.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Most of the examples you gave were before the Donald Trump Era. These were career politicians because they use the Stare level as a farm system for federal office. The governors were seeking the Presidency while state legislators were seeking Congress before running for President.

    The Donald Trump era changed all of this. Now most running for President won’t care about partisan politics or getting re-elected and are on a mission to get things done when elected. The most corrupt people in politics have been in politics most of their lives. GHWB, John McCain, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, etc.

    When Donald Trump won on November 9, 2016, everything changed.
    It didn't change enough, term limits are still a bad idea, the swamp has an unlimited supply of sockpuppets while we are hard pressed to find a few men as good as Trump or better, forcing ourselves to create vacancies for the swamp to fill is just dumb.

    And just to clarify I want to make sure you understand it isn't my article, I just posted part of the article because MC just posted a link again.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It didn't change enough, term limits are still a bad idea, the swamp has an unlimited supply of sockpuppets while we are hard pressed to find a few men as good as Trump or better, forcing ourselves to create vacancies for the swamp to fill is just dumb.

    And just to clarify I want to make sure you understand it isn't my article, I just posted part of the article because MC just posted a link again.
    Donald Trump’s toughness was needed to get the ball rolling. There are more nonpoliticians then there are politicians. It will work itself out naturally. Career politicians will lose or someone will be discouraged from wanting to be a career politician as they are as marketable as they used to be. It won’t happen overnight but November 9 was a yuuuuuge step in that direction. That I can tell you. That I can tell you.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Donald Trump’s toughness was needed to get the ball rolling. There are more nonpoliticians then there are politicians. It will work itself out naturally. Career politicians will lose or someone will be discouraged from wanting to be a career politician as they are as marketable as they used to be. It won’t happen overnight but November 9 was a yuuuuuge step in that direction. That I can tell you. That I can tell you.
    You seem fond of the word 'career' in career politician , what current non-career politicians are you aware of other that Trump?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    Donald Trump’s toughness was needed to get the ball rolling. There are more nonpoliticians then there are politicians. It will work itself out naturally. Career politicians will lose or someone will be discouraged from wanting to be a career politician as they are as marketable as they used to be. It won’t happen overnight but November 9 was a yuuuuuge step in that direction. That I can tell you. That I can tell you.
    I hope for much improvement as well but our enemies still have more nonpoliticians on their bench than we do and far more money and influence to promote them.

    Term limits don't hurt the swamp and do hurt us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    You seem fond of the word 'career' in career politician , what current non-career politicians are you aware of other that Trump?
    Well there are a lot of Republicans inspired by Donald Trump. Some of them will run for President on the Republican side. It won’t happen on the Democrat side just yet because they are still going to be establishment types because they oppose Donald Trump. If Donald Trump wins re-election then the Dems will start running as nonpoliticians and winning because at that point they will come to realize that career politics doesn’t sell anymore.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I hope for much improvement as well but our enemies still have more nonpoliticians on their bench than we do and far more money and influence to promote them.

    Term limits don't hurt the swamp and do hurt us.

    There’s 535 Congress people and corrupt media personnel but there are millions of Americans who are not into politics and are Trump supporters(some who are celebrities). Our pool is much bigger.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    There’s 535 Congress people and corrupt media personnel but there are millions of Americans who are not into politics and are Trump supporters(some who are celebrities). Our pool is much bigger.
    Our pool of people able to run is not bigger.

    Term limits are bad.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Our pool of people able to run is not bigger.

    Term limits are bad.
    You have no idea how big our pool is. Donald Trump proved that there is no one “next in line”. He came out of nowhere and that inspired a lot of people. This is why the 2016 election is such a big deal. It goes way beyond Donald Trump.

  15. #13
    Any argument for or against term limits based on a particular good politician being termed out (or a particular bad politician not being termed out) is missing the point. It's like arguing that the President should have to be a redhead, because there's a particular good politician at the moment who happens to be a redhead: or the President can't have green eyes, because there's a particular bad politician at the moment who happens to have green eyes. Sometimes the rule will be helpful, sometimes harmful; over the long term, it'll be a wash.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    You have no idea how big our pool is. Donald Trump proved that there is no one “next in line”. He came out of nowhere and that inspired a lot of people. This is why the 2016 election is such a big deal. It goes way beyond Donald Trump.
    You think Donald Trump the super celebrity "came out of nowhere"?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You think Donald Trump the super celebrity "came out of nowhere"?
    No one expected him to run and no one expected him to win and his victory changed that. Yes, it took a billionaire, celebrity, tough guy to start the ball rolling and to break down and establishment but after this you won’t have to be a billionaire, etc. He humiliated the media, the political parties, etc. After this you will need not need to be a billionaire celebrity then it will lessen to anyone who leads a movement.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dude58677 View Post
    No one expected him to run and no one expected him to win and his victory changed that. Yes, it took a billionaire, celebrity, tough guy to start the ball rolling and to break down and establishment but after this you won’t have to be a billionaire, etc. He humiliated the media, the political parties, etc. After this you will need not need to be a billionaire celebrity then it will lessen to anyone who leads a movement.
    Nothing has happened that would make it any easier for a true unknown to run and win, it's not impossible but the odds are still against you and term limits are still a bad idea.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nothing has happened that would make it any easier for a true unknown to run and win, it's not impossible but the odds are still against you and term limits are still a bad idea.
    Again it won’t happen over night but Donald Trumps win is a step in that direction. It’s like the Wright Brothers flight in Kitty Hawk. It started controller flight but it didn’t become a way of life until decades later.
    Last edited by dude58677; 10-11-2019 at 07:30 PM.



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