Forum Hero Snowden

[Krugminator2]

Always was on the fence with this guy. Going to Glenn Greenwald was a major red flag. I still sort of thought he did what he did out of principle but thought he should be prosecuted with a light sentence to discourage people from dumping secrets like Manning or Reality Winner or this latest Trump leaker. Now I just think he is anti-American trash and wouldn't mind seeing him get life in prison if not be executed.

[Swordsmyth]

Edward Snowden is a fraud

Started by Firestarter, 03-21-2017

[Swordsmyth]

I kept an open mind but his endorsement of the latest impeachment garbage sealed my opinion.

He is an enemy who did some good but did it to benefit the CIA.

[Brian4Liberty]

Always was on the fence with this guy. Going to Glenn Greenwald was a major red flag. I still sort of thought he did what he did out of principle but thought he should be prosecuted with a light sentence to discourage people from dumping secrets like Manning or Reality Winner or this latest Trump leaker. Now I just think he is anti-American trash and wouldn't mind seeing him get life in prison if not be executed.

“Forum Hero”?

You may be referring to this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Whistleblower

You are free to listen to the video in that thread and respond to it. Tell us where you agree and disagree. Give time stamps so we can follow.

[kcchiefs6465]

His political opinions aside, the information he provided was bad in your opinion?

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

He's an admirable man who did a great thing. But that doesn't mean his opinions are unassailable. He's one man. But he shouldn't be thrown under the bus either.

[TheTexan]

Traitor! Treason! Etc!

[juleswin]

He's an admirable man who did a great thing. But that doesn't mean his opinions are unassailable. He's one man. But he shouldn't be thrown under the bus either.

This^^^. He did something I consider heroic and nothing he does from that point will take that away from him.

[Origanalist]

He's an admirable man who did a great thing. But that doesn't mean his opinions are unassailable. He's one man. But he shouldn't be thrown under the bus either.

But, that's the RPF way now.

[Anti Globalist]

Snowden did a great thing by exposing that the government was spying on us. I'm not gonna take that away from him just because he thinks Sanders is a decent person. I'm pretty sure he would still prefer a Ron Paul presidency.

[oyarde]

Snowden did a great thing by exposing that the government was spying on us. I'm not gonna take that away from him just because he thinks Sanders is a decent person. I'm pretty sure he would still prefer a Ron Paul presidency.

I did not need snowden to tell me the govt spies . Anyone who thinks sanders is a great guy has judgement that is impaired and really cannot be believed so there is that . I am fine with anyones opinion on him in any direction.

[acptulsa]

Always was on the fence with this guy. Going to Glenn Greenwald was a major red flag. I still sort of thought he did what he did out of principle but thought he should be prosecuted with a light sentence to discourage people from dumping secrets like Manning or Reality Winner or this latest Trump leaker. Now I just think he is anti-American trash and wouldn't mind seeing him get life in prison if not be executed.

So is a hero someone who does something that needs desperately to be done, even if he has to pay a terrible personal price for it? And once done, was that deed any less heroic if that person turns out to be imperfect? Can someone who cheats at cards not be a hero even if they lose a leg snatching a baby off the subway tracks?

Or do you consider a hero only someone whose every word and action can be accepted and worshipped without hesitation?

We all know Swordshyll is just trying to find excuses to conform to the Deep State narrative other than the real reason--he's a groupie of the powerful. What's your excuse?

[Krugminator2]

“Forum Hero”?

You may be referring to this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Whistleblower

You are free to listen to the video in that thread and respond to it. Tell us where you agree and disagree. Give time stamps so we can follow.

Bernie is the most fundamentally evil person in politics. I don't care even a little bit what a Bernie supporter thinks. The small good Snowden did exposing something everyone knew (and not even as bad as I would have thought) is a drop in the ocean to the destruction and loss of freedom Bernie could do.

[brushfire]

Where's the 3d chess'rs at? When trump does it, you're trumpsplainin' all over the damn interwebs. I guess trump is the sole proprietor of 3d chess strategy - LOL

For the record, Arron Swartz also supported Elizabeth Warren - you guys probably think he was a traitor too. Both Snowden and Swartz have made enormous personal sacrifice, and have had a substantial impact in furthering the cause of liberty. The world has been made a better place by their actions - albeit we really have a long way to go still.

So you can go and sh!t talk these heroes, call them frauds, but just know you look like childish fools when your boy trump does the same thing, and you go out of your way to find some far fetched explanation to confirm your bias.

Some of you people are a real embarrassment.

[acptulsa]

The small good Snowden did exposing something everyone knew (and not even as bad as I would have thought) is a drop in the ocean to the destruction and loss of freedom Bernie could do.

And you knew, but did you have proof? You say the number of people who saw his proof and suddenly knew what you and I had figured out is small, but have you ever seen a poll? If oceans of people were awakened by Snowden, would the MSM let on?

Could Sanders, openly socialist, get away with one fifth of what Republicans let Trump get away with in their zeal to be good little Team Players?

[specsaregood]

Some of you people are a real embarrassment.

Sorry, but there is no excuse for promoting a communist.

[brushfire]

Sorry, but there is no excuse for promoting an open communist.

Most of the politicians running are communists - who are you kidding?

[specsaregood]

Most of the politicians running are communists - who are you kidding?

Agreed, but nobody here is calling them "the most fundamentally decent man in politics"
A man that wants to completely control your life.
There is no excuse for that bull$#@!.

[Krugminator2]

Most of the politicians running are communists - who are you kidding?

Sanders said Venezuela and Argentina were where the American Dream was most likely to be realized in 2011. Interest rates are now 60% in Argentina as they try to avoid Venezuela's fate.

Bernie supported the Communist Sandinistas against the US . He still says nice things about Castro. He thought breadlines were a sign of civilization because in wealthy countries wealthy people hoard the food from the poor.

Then there are his Leninstyle rhetoric and policy proposals against the modern day kulaks he wants to liquidate.

Sorry. I don't equate John Cornyn and Mitt Romney with Bernie.

[juleswin]

Sanders said Venezuela and Argentina were where the American Dream was most likely to be realized in 2011. Interest rates are now 60% in Argentina as they try to avoid Venezuela's fate.

Bernie supported the Communist Sandinistas against the US . He still says nice things about Castro.

Then there are his Leninstyle rhetoric and policy proposals against the modern day kulaks he wants to liquidate.

Sorry. I don't equate John Cornyn and Mitt Romney with Bernie.

Have link to this?

[Anti Federalist]

Bernie is the most fundamentally evil person in politics. I don't care even a little bit what a Bernie supporter thinks. The small good Snowden did exposing something everyone knew (and not even as bad as I would have thought) is a drop in the ocean to the destruction and loss of freedom Bernie could do.

What say you to all the Ron Paul people that jumped on the Bernie Bandwagon?

(Yes, there are more than a few of them)

And regardless of where his head is at now, I still consider him a hero, or at least a person who committed heroic acts, and put his very life on the line to expose what he did.

Not that anybody cares of course.

[Anti Federalist]

Have link to this?

These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsr...reaten-america

[Krugminator2]

Have link to this?

I know you like to troll but not even you can rationalize this. Nothing out of context.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/close-the-gaps-disparities-that-threaten-america

These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?

I will answer Bernie. The countries he listed are banana republics.

[Anti Federalist]

From the same article by Sanders in 2011:

Take the jobs gap, which doesn't need much explanation. There are far fewer jobs than people seeking work, which is why unemployment is close to 10 percent or higher, if you count those who would like a job but have given up looking. According to economist Laura D'Andrea Tyson, writing last week in The New York Times, the U.S. economy would have to add about 12.3 million jobs to return to employment levels that existed before the 2008-2009 recession blindsided America. A quarter of a million people enter the labor force each month. At the current pace of recovery -- which is to say slower than slow -- closing this gap could take 10 years or more. Talk about a lost decade.

Current US unemployment is 3.7% - down from the near 10% in 2011

3.7 is close to what economists figure is "full employment".

Anybody who wants a job right now can get a job right now, all they have to do is show up: on time, with clothes on, with a washed ass (using soap) and sober.

the United States doesn't spend nearly enough on education

The US spends over $12800 per year, per student, on primary and secondary education - More money than EVERY SINGLE FIRST WORLD NATION ON EARTH - excepting Norway.

What is our ROI on that money?

31st place in overall student test scores, behind Vietnam, Slovenia and Ireland just to name a few.

The reasons for this particular Sanders failure-quote are voluminous, but one I want to point out is the invasion, with government approval, of semi functioning retards and peasant dirt farmers from around the globe, but in particular from sub-Saharan Africa and South America.

The downturn has been particularly hard on blacks, who are twice as likely to be unemployed as whites.

The black unemployment level is at the lowest rate ever recorded.

https://www.epi.org/blog/before-the-...-unemployment/

White households saw house values decline as well, of course, but they tended to be cushioned by other assets that many black and Hispanic households don't have, including savings accounts, pensions and stocks.

This chaps my ass raw.

I have never had a stock portfolio, I do not have a pension and what I have saved is by delaying gratification, controlling impulsive spending and forward thinking...you know...save for a rainy day.

This whole article is fail, from top to bottom.

Sanders fails to understand, or willfully ignores, the causes of the Great Recession, has no real solutions, misdiagnoses the symptoms and offers nothing but class and ethnic warfare as answers.

Then holds up violent and brutal socialist regimes as some kind of equal or better.

[Krugminator2]

What say you to all the Ron Paul people that jumped on the Bernie Bandwagon?

Hate them all. There is no policy gateway between Bernie and Ron. They were never on board with Ron's actual views. It was mostly young people who saw what a disaster Iraq was and Ron was one of the only people to stand against Iraq at potential political cost from the start. This isn't a new position for me. I hated them back in 2009-2012 before I joined the forum and occasionally lurked. I knew they were never real allies. And there were a lot of them.

Now that they are in their 30s with unpaid student loans, they want their human rights, i.e. free $#@!.

[Anti Federalist]

Hate them all. There is no policy gateway between Bernie and Ron. They were never on board with Ron's actual views. It was mostly young people who saw what a disaster Iraq was and Ron was one of the only people to stand against Iraq at potential political cost from the start. This isn't a new position for me. I hated them back in 2009-2012 before I joined the forum and occasionally lurked. I knew they were never real allies. And there were a lot of them.

Now that they are in their 30s with unpaid student loans, they want their human rights, i.e. free $#@!.

I happen to agree.

[Krugminator2]

The US spends over $12800 per year on primary and secondary education - More money than EVERY SINGLE FIRST WORLD NATION ON EARTH - excepting Norway.

The US spends 250k a classroom. Nobody on the left ever questions where that money goes. Nobody ever questions why the US government will be any more efficient running health care.

Here is a little known fact. The US spends almost as much per person on government health care as the UK already between Medicare, Medicaid, the VA system and Obamacare subsidies. "total federal resources dedicated to health care, which include tax benefits as well, total about 8 percent of the economy" https://www.crfb.org/papers/american...federal-budget "otal current healthcare expenditure in the UK accounted for 9.6% of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2017, compared with 9.7% in 2016. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...haccounts/2017

The Green New Deal cost would be multiples of the economy with little environmental benefit and giving up the huge gains we've made in oil discovery. The US is already energy independent. " We provided a range of estimates for each element. If one adds up the low end of the range, the total is $52 trillion (over the next 10 years); at the high end it is $93 trillion." https://www.aspeninstitute.org/blog-...new-deal-cost/

And here is a fun fact from a Harvard educated economist. Medicare is underfunded by $200 trillion dollars. https://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/13902...y-211-trillion It's telling they use the failed New Deal (unemployment was 14% at the start of WWII eight years after FDR was elected) and Medicare in the names of their current proposals.

But hey. Supporting Bernie is no big deal. Freedom hero FDR had 90% tax rates and confiscated gold and put business owners in jail for violating price control laws and the country apparently was great or something.

[juleswin]

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsr...reaten-america

Thanks, last time I looked, I did not find it. The way he has stay completely silent now with what is going on in Venezuela makes it even hard to believe he ever took that stance in his life. He has always been the "I am democratic socialist not communist" type of guy.

[Krugminator2]

This chaps my ass raw.

Sanders plays this race card that whites are oppressing minorities and that is why there is a wealth gap so he thinks reparations and free college are the answer.

But why do Jews, who have also faced major discrimination, and most have only recently come to the US with nothing outperform every ethnic group?

Never pointed out are blacks are concentrated in the lowest paying/easiest college majors and Bernie wants to double down on that. It isn't whitey's fault that blacks don't become doctors or engineers and other high paying jobs. The standards are already EXTREMELY relaxed for blacks and hispanics to get into those programs. It isn't whitey's fault that blacks are much less likely to be entrepreneurs. https://www.nber.org/papers/w3537 How much welfare and affirmative action have been given to blacks since the War on Poverty. That debt of slavery has long been paid but Bernie thinks we need to spend trillions more to "make things right".


"African-Americans over-represented among low-paying college majors" https://www.pbs.org/newshour/educati...college-majors

I just can't admire anyone who wants to see Bernie's vision implemented.

[brushfire]

Agreed, but nobody here is calling them "the most fundamentally decent man in politics"
A man that wants to completely control your life.
There is no excuse for that bull$#@!.

My point here is that this is what nearly all the politicians want to control your life - name 10 politicians holding office that dont (Massey donesn't count - dont cheat). Look at the context, and consider what Snowden has done. Consider Snowden's personal circumstance. Commie Bernie had said that Obama should grant Snowden clemency, at a time when most people were calling for the assassination/execution of Snowden... If you had these circumstances, you'd be looking for any way to broaden your base of support, and influence government. Also, by your logic, Ron Paul's comments towards, and coalition with Dennis Kucinich might be grounds to rename RPF - Dr Paul has said some fantastic things about Dennis... I happen to think that Carter was/is an amazing man - perhaps the last real human being to hold the presidential office in >80 years. Does that make me a commie lover? I dont think so - I disagree with almost all of Carter's methods, but I do share his compassion for his fellow man.

Sanders said Venezuela and Argentina were where the American Dream was most likely to be realized in 2011. Interest rates are now 60% in Argentina as they try to avoid Venezuela's fate.

Bernie supported the Communist Sandinistas against the US . He still says nice things about Castro. He thought breadlines were a sign of civilization because in wealthy countries wealthy people hoard the food from the poor.

Then there are his Leninstyle rhetoric and policy proposals against the modern day kulaks he wants to liquidate.

Sorry. I don't equate John Cornyn and Mitt Romney with Bernie.

I know who Bernie is - I also know who Trump is, and the argument against communism is wasted on me - I hate communism with an absolute passion, I need not, and cannot, be convinced any further.

While I could not be convinced to support communism, I'm still willing to acknowledge the impact that Ed Snowden has had, and his personal reasons for backing Bernie. Going behind that, I can also see that if Ed Snowden draws more crowds towards Bernie, Ed's story and exposure of illegal/unconstitutional actions of our government makes my job a lot easier. Someone who adores communism and its progressive sister (socialism) must acknowledge the evil that the same government they entrust with their liberty is capable of, and how such a government treats honest people (just like how the DNC fcked over Bernie). Prior to Snowden, my arguments were dismissed as conspiracy - now the surveillance state is reality in the minds of 90% of the people out there, and almost every Bernie supporter acknowledges how the DNC fked over Bernie.

Hows that for 3d chess..? I'll send a 2 cent royalty to that a$$hat trump - check's in the mail.