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Thread: Iraq War 3.0? Israel Attacks...With US Backing!

  1. #1

    Iraq War 3.0? Israel Attacks...With US Backing!

    Iraq War 3.0? Israel Attacks...With US Backing!



    Iraq has formally accused Israel of the spate of attacks on its territory over the past several weeks. Most recently, Israeli drones are said to have taken off from a US-controlled base in the Kurdish region of Syria and attacked Iraqi territory. Again. Iraq is warning of war while the US again pursues an incoherent and counterproductive policy. Will the US continue to back Israeli aggression in the region?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    With US backing?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    With US backing?
    Well, the US hasn't said a word about it.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, the US hasn't said a word about it.
    That's not the same as saying we approve and/or back the attacks, we haven't even said we don't disapprove.

    I don't approve of saying nothing but it is FakeNews like to say "with US backing".
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not the same as saying we approve and/or back the attacks, we haven't even said we don't disapprove.

    I don't approve of saying nothing but it is FakeNews like to say "with US backing".
    It's possible that the US didn't pre-approve it, but the silence shows clearly which side they're on after the fact.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's possible that the US didn't pre-approve it, but the silence shows clearly which side they're on after the fact.
    You could say "with implicit US backing" or "with silent assent from the US" but "with US backing" is FakeNews.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You could say "with implicit US backing" or "with silent assent from the US" but "with US backing" is FakeNews.
    How does Israel launch their drones from US bases without US backing? Clearly they had to be approved by some US official. To say Israel is attacking Iraq with US backing is just Occam's Razor (not that you've ever used that in your life)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    How does Israel launch their drones from US bases without US backing? Clearly they had to be approved by some US official. To say Israel is attacking Iraq with US backing is just Occam's Razor (not that you've ever used that in your life)
    Proof they launched from US bases?
    If you have that then you can say they had US backing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You could say "with implicit US backing" or "with silent assent from the US" but "with US backing" is FakeNews.
    ridiculous sophistry

    The point, whatever words you wish to use to describe the situation, is that the US is not going to do anything about this.

    ...except, no doubt, continue to give Israel money.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ridiculous sophistry
    Your usual output.

    Words matter and the difference between the US doing nothing and giving explicit backing is important.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Proof they launched from US bases?
    If you have that then you can say they had US backing.
    No armed drone has a long enough range to be launched from Israel, fly to Iraq, and come back

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    No armed drone has a long enough range to be launched from Israel, fly to Iraq, and come back
    Even if that were true it doesn't tell us where they were launched from.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Your usual output.

    Words matter and the difference between the US doing nothing and giving explicit backing is important.
    What do you think the significance of this story is?

    I think it's that Israel is stirring up trouble in the ME and the US is doing nothing to stop it.

    Whether the US backed, implicitly backed, backed in a fit of absent-mindedness, etc doesn't really matter.

    The point is, Israel is not going to face any consequences for this.

    It's rather going to be emboldened to keep doing things like this.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What do you think the significance of this story is?

    I think it's that Israel is stirring up trouble in the ME and the US is doing nothing to stop it.

    Whether the US backed, implicitly backed, backed in a fit of absent-mindedness, etc doesn't really matter.

    The point is, Israel is not going to face any consequences for this.

    It's rather going to be emboldened to keep doing things like this.
    The important difference is whether the US is committing to direct involvement or whether it is just letting Israel do what it wants.
    Russia has allowed Israel to do almost anything it wants in Syria but you couldn't say Israel performed those strikes "with Russian backing".
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The important difference is whether the US is committing to direct involvement or whether it is just letting Israel do what it wants.
    I don't see why that would matter.

    Either way, the attacks happened, the region was further destabilized, the Israelis was encouraged to keep doing more of the same.

    Russia has allowed Israel to do almost anything it wants in Syria but you couldn't say Israel performed those strikes "with Russian backing".
    Yea, so did Brunei...

    Russia's in no position to do anything to stop Israel; the US is.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I don't see why that would matter.

    Either way, the attacks happen, the region is further destabilized, the Israelis are encouraged to keep doing more of the same.



    Yea, so did Brunei...

    Russia's in no position to do anything to stop Israel; the US is.
    Russia is in a position to stop Israeli strikes in Syria but it doesn't.
    The same thing goes for the US and Israeli strikes in Iraq.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Russia is in a position to stop Israeli strikes in Syria but it doesn't.
    The same thing goes for the US and Israeli strikes in Iraq.
    Does Russia send Israel billions of dollars every year and guarantee its security?

    ...nevermind US military capabilities, which are far greater than Russia's

    No country in the world has nearly the influence in Israel that the US does.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Does Russia send Israel billions of dollars every year and guarantee its security?

    ...nevermind US military capabilities, which are far greater than Russia's

    No country in the world has nearly the influence in Israel that the US does.
    That still doesn't make silent assent into active backing anymore than Russia not shooting down Israeli planes in Syria with its SAMs is active backing of the strikes there.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That still doesn't make silent assent into active backing anymore than Russia not shooting down Israeli planes in Syria with its SAMs is active backing of the strikes there.
    oy vey...
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That still doesn't make silent assent into active backing anymore than Russia not shooting down Israeli planes in Syria with its SAMs is active backing of the strikes there.
    Not everytime. They usually need our governments okay. Do we also stop them from too much mischief? Yes, so we usually have a say so at least.


  24. #21
    Lol at anyone who thinks Israel can achieve anything without US backing.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I don't see why that would matter.
    Clearly the people who sign his paychecks do.

    Meanwhile, according to the MSM, everything burning in Iraq was spontaneously combusted by protesters.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ead-nationwide
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-02-2019 at 04:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    We could pay off the debt with the money raised from live broadcast executions.

    Be just like 1984. Truckloads of em, people betting on which one gets shot first, all sorts of fun stuff
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Clearly the people who sign his paychecks do.

    Meanwhile, according to the MSM, everything burning in Iraq was spontaneously combusted by protesters.
    This is just another laudable instance of the media not jumping to conclusions about who carried out an attack.

    ...like the gas attacks in Syria, or the ship attacks in the Persian Gulf.

    Fair and Balanced
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  27. #24
    Iraqi militia leader meets US defence secretary following spate of Israeli attacks
    US Secretary of Defense Mark Esper met with Iraqi politican Falih Alfayyadh [Getty]
    Date of publication: 2 October, 2019
    In a surprise visit, Iraqi politician Falih al-Fayyadh met with US Secretary of Defence Mark Esper in Washington.
    Iraq's head of the Popular Mobilisation Forces (PMF) - a coalition of some 70, mostly Shia militias - met with US Defence Secretary Mark Esper in Washington on Wednesday.
    Falih al-Fayyadh's visit comes a day after Iraq's prime minister directly blamed Israel for a series of airstrikes targeting Iranian-backed PMF forces in the country.
    alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/2/iraqi-militia-leader-meets-us-defence-secretary-in-washington





    October 6, 2019
    104 people killed in Iraq unrest, 6,000 wounded: Interior Ministry

    1 Min Read
    Demonstrators disperse as Iraqi security forces use tear gas during a protest after the lifting of the curfew, following four days of nationwide anti-government protests that turned violent, in Baghdad, Iraq October 5, 2019. REUTERS/Thaier Al-Sudani

    BAGHDAD (Reuters) - At least 104 people have been killed and more than 6,000 wounded in less than a week of unrest in Iraq, Interior Ministry spokesman Major General Saad Maan said on Sunday on state TV.
    Maan said eight members of the security forces were among those killed and 51 public buildings and eight political party headquarters had been torched by protesters.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN1WL0DV



    Related


    Iraq invasion architect Elliott Abrams quietly slips into Trump administration


    Pentagon walks back Trump idea of using Iraq base to counter Iran
    Top Donald Trump administration officials indicated today that US bases in Iraq would have little role in monitoring Iran-backed proxies after the president vowed in a TV interview that American troops would stay in the country to “watch” Iranian forces. Iraqi political figures roundly criticized Trump in the wake of a Sunday interview on CBS’ "Face the Nation." President Barham Salih, a longstanding American ally, called the potential action “unacceptable” and insisted the United States hadn’t been granted permission by Baghdad to snoop on Iran.



    US, Israeli efforts to contain Iran put Iraq’s stability on the line

    Alleged IDF airstrikes targeting Iranian-backed paramilitaries have heightened divisions between the Shiite groups and Iraqi government20 September 2019

    BAGHDAD (AP) — As the United States and Israel escalate their push to contain Iranian influence in the Middle East, countries in Tehran’s orbit are feeling the heat.
    Pro-Iranian militias across Lebanon, Syria and Iraq are being targeted, both with economic sanctions and precision airstrikes hitting their bases and infrastructure. This is putting the governments that host them in the crosshairs of an escalating confrontation and raising the prospect of open conflict.
    Nowhere is that being felt more than in Iraq. It is wedged between Saudi Arabia to the south and Iran to the east and hosts thousands of US troops on its soil. At the same time, powerful Shiite paramilitary forces linked to Iran pose a growing challenge to the authority of the central government.
    The divisions among Iran’s Shiite allies in Iraq have been spurred by a spate of airstrikes blamed on Israel that have hit weapons depots and bases belonging to the Iran-backed militias, known collectively as the Popular Mobilization Forces, or PMF.
    There have been at least nine strikes since July both inside Iraq and across the border in Syria, sparking outrage among PMF leaders. They blame Israel and by extension its US ally, which maintains more than 5,000 troops in Iraq.
    Israel has not confirmed its involvement in the attacks, and US officials have said Israel was behind at least one strike inside Iraq.
    The attacks have fueled calls for a US troop withdrawal by hard-line anti-American groups in the country that have strong ties to Iran.
    timesofisrael.com/us-israeli-efforts-to-contain-iran-put-iraqs-stability-on-the-line/





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