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Thread: Trump says U.S. ‘locked and loaded’ after attack on Saudi oil

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And Swords hull's without a shred of evidence--sez believe Trump and assume foreigners are lying, even though Trump lies pathologically and the foreigners have sound business reasons to be honest with their customers. Surprise surprise.
    The Saudis lie pathologically and have big business and political reasons to lie.

    You have no idea what you are talking about regarding the facility that was hit and oil fields were hit as well.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #32
    This refinery is more of a midstream processing facility than a downstream refinery like those that turn crude into fuels and other end products. It sounds like a very large desulpherization and tank farm that turns sour crude into sweet crude that can be exported or further processed downstream.

    Seems pointless to be comparing its processing volume to Texas refineries.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    This refinery is more of a midstream processing facility than a downstream refinery like those that turn crude into fuels and other end products. It sounds like a very large desulpherization and tank farm that turns sour crude into sweet crude that can be exported or further processed downstream.

    Seems pointless to be comparing its processing volume to Texas refineries.
    An intelligent comment. Thank you.

    But the U.S. is an oil producing nation well able to handle crude straight from the ground. Clearly we will only be affected by the oil companies using this as an excuse to hike prices, and the neocons' obvious desire to use this as an excuse to start yet another war.

    And as we can plainly see, Trump is acting as head cheerleader for the warmongers so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And Swords hull's without a shred of evidence--sez believe Trump and assume foreigners are lying, even though Trump lies pathologically and the foreigners have sound business reasons to be honest with their customers. Surprise surprise.



    Texas City has refineries owned by BP and Valero, as well as Marathon. I think what you're saying is, Texas City IS one big refinery. There are another hundred or so refineries in states not named Texas. Refined oil products are exported from the U.S. in pipelines, and in little plastic bottles packed in cardboard cartons. If you want me to believe supertankers float around U.S. ports full of volatile gasoline and its vapors, you're going to have to work a little harder at convincing me.
    https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=29&t=6

    A total of 135 operable petroleum refineries were operable in the United States as of January 1, 2019.
    Of that, 29 are in the state of Texas. https://inflationdata.com/articles/o...united-states/

    As for shipping of gasoline:

    https://gcaptain.com/gasoline-tanker...-off-new-york/

    Gasoline Tankers Parked Off New York

    At least two tankers carrying gasoline-making components have dropped anchor off New York Harbor for nearly a week, unable to discharge their cargoes in the latest sign that storage for the fuel is running out, traders said.

    Several tankers with gasoline have also been diverted from the New York region to Florida and the U.S. Gulf Coast in recent days, a rare move that underscores oversupply in the pricing hub for the benchmark U.S. gasoline.

    The excess in the midst of summer demand for the motor fuel casts a shadow of the profitability of refineries, and thus their demand for crude oil over the coming months.

    U.S. gasoline refining margins <1RBc1-CLc1> dropped last week to their lowest since February at around $13.61 a barrel after gasoline inventories posted an unseasonably large build.

    The builds were a result of higher output from U.S. refineries as well as an increase in imports, data from the U.S. Energy Department showed. At the same time, data suggested lower U.S. consumption than previously indicated.
    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=39192

    U.S. petroleum product exports set record high in 2018

    U.S. exports of total petroleum products set a record high in 2018, reaching an annual average of 5.6 million barrels per day (b/d), an increase of 366,000 b/d from 2017 levels. The three largest petroleum product exports from the United States in 2018 were distillate, propane, and motor gasoline. U.S. exports of motor gasoline (including blending components) and propane reached record highs in 2018, and exports of distillate reached their second-highest volume on record, following the high set in 2017.
    U.S. exports of motor gasoline (including blending components) reached 44 destinations in 2018 and set a record high of 951,000 b/d, up 126,000 b/d from 2017 levels. This increase in exports came despite high levels of domestic gasoline consumption, averaging 9.3 million b/d in 2018, only slightly lower than the record-high level set in 2017.
    Top Ten Destinations of US produced finished oil products: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier.../#4235bd9b3f26

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-16-2019 at 02:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We would be much better off if Republicans had had the instincts to be immigration hawks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #35
    If you want me to believe supertankers float around U.S. ports full of volatile gasoline and its vapors, you're going to have to work a little harder at convincing me.
    There are certainly tankers floating around with volatile refined products. How would islands without refineries get any gas and diesel?

    http://www.prime-marine.net/our-busi...oduct-tankers/
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    As for shipping of gasoline:

    At least two tankers carrying gasoline-making components have dropped anchor off New York Harbor...
    U.S. exports of motor gasoline (including blending components) reached 44 destinations...
    Got any more examples of misdefinitions and weasel words to share, while you're busy ignoring exports by pipeline?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump already backing down? "We don't need any Middle East Oil" (and makes sure to thank himself!)

    In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products. So Trump is thanking Obama?
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products. So Trump is thanking Obama?
    Probably the best thing Obama did in his administration.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Got any more examples of misdefinitions and weasel words to share, while you're busy ignoring exports by pipeline?
    How long is that pipeline to Japan, Brazil, the Netherlands? China?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We would be much better off if Republicans had had the instincts to be immigration hawks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products. So Trump is thanking Obama?
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    Probably the best thing Obama did in his administration.
    O'Bummer did everything he could to stop it and reverse it, he gets no credit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    There are certainly tankers floating around with volatile refined products. How would islands without refineries get any gas and diesel?

    http://www.prime-marine.net/our-busi...oduct-tankers/
    That is a point, especially as some of those islands are U.S. territories. But the fact remains that the U.S. has no need for refined and volatile gasoline to be shipped to us from halfway around the world.

    Guam would be the only exception I can think of to prove the rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How long is that pipeline to Japan, Brazil, the Netherlands? China?
    Where's your chart? We do ship "finished motor fuels" to some of those countries some of the time. But are they gasoline, or something less volatile?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    O'Bummer did everything he could to stop it and reverse it, he gets no credit.
    So Obama lifting a forty year ban on refined petroleum products was an effort to prevent U.S. refineries from exporting?

    https://www.heartland.org/news-opini...rgy-powerhouse
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-16-2019 at 03:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That is a point, especially as some of those islands are U.S. territories. But the fact remains that the U.S. has no need for refined and volatile gasoline to be shipped to us from halfway around the world.

    Guam would be the only exception I can think of to prove the rule.
    The US also processes oil for some oil producing countries which do not have enough refining capacity of their own so we import the oil from them and ship back the end products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We would be much better off if Republicans had had the instincts to be immigration hawks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The US also processes oil for some oil producing countries which do not have enough refining capacity of their own so we import the oil from them and ship back the end products.
    So why would a damaged Saudi refinery affect us? And why are you still trying to distract people from that issue?

    If we can refine more crude than we produce, would the shutdown if a Saudi refinery not be a business opportunity for us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So why would a damaged Saudi refinery affect us? And why are you still trying to distract people from that issue?

    If we can refine more crude than we produce, would the shutdown if a Saudi refinery not be a business opportunity for us?
    Back to the original point. Oil is a global market. The US does not have the refinery capacity to replace the one attacked in Saudi Arabia. That one facility was producing about five percent of refined oil products globally. As much as the entire state of Texas produces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We would be much better off if Republicans had had the instincts to be immigration hawks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Back to the original point. Oil is a global market. The US does not have the refinery capacity to replace the one attacked in Saudi Arabia. That one facility was producing about five percent of refined oil products globally. As much as the entire state of Texas produces.
    And the U.S. has multiple times the capacity of Texas. So, if we were motivated to take up that slack, why couldn't we? And once again, how does this attack by unknown entities on Saudi Arabia constitute skin off our nose?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    So Obama lifting a forty year ban on refined petroleum products was an effort to prevent U.S. refineries from exporting?

    https://www.heartland.org/news-opini...rgy-powerhouse
    Congress lifted the ban on exports, O'Bummer tried to kill the domestic oil industry with regulations and taxes.
    O'Bummer signing the bill to lift the export ban was either because of some deal or because Congress would have passed it over his veto or in a "must sign" bill.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress lifted the ban on exports, O'Bummer tried to kill the domestic oil industry with regulations and taxes.
    O'Bummer signing the bill to lift the export ban was either because of some deal or because Congress would have passed it over his veto or in a "must sign" bill.
    Your spin does nothing to explain how signing off on that constitutes "doing everything he could to stop it and reverse it".
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Your spin does nothing to explain how signing off on that constitutes "doing everything he could to stop it and reverse it".
    It was something he couldn't help, so he tried everything else he could.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    @acptulsa, I remember when O'Bummer gave tons of money to Brazil to build up their oil industry to drive ours out of the market.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Saudi Arabia’s disrupted oil production may last longer than originally thought, Amrita Sen, chief oil analyst at Energy Aspects Ltd., told Bloomberg on Monday, with full resumption of oil production perhaps not returning for weeks—or even months.

    Saudi Arabia, too, is holding a more reserved position that initially thought, believing now that less than half the capacity at the Abqaiq processing plant can be restored quickly, according to Bloomberg sources that spoke on condition of anonymity. One of the longer lead-time items of the restoration are Abqaiq’s stabilization towers that separates out the dissolved gas from the crude oil—a distillation process that sweetens sour crude, if you will.


    Just the specialized parts to repair those towers could take months to get. Five out of the 18 stabilization towards were hit, indicating a “very specific, accurate targeting of those particular infrastructures,” Phillip Cornell, former senior corporate planning adviser to Aramco, cited by Bloomberg.
    Abqaiq has a capacity of 5.7 million barrels per day of light crude.
    To compensate, Aramco is bringing back online previously shuttered oilfields, and it is drawing on its oil reserves to cushion the blow. What can’t be compensated for by cranking up idled fields and siphoning off crude reserves is being satisfied by substituting a heavier grade oil—but all these emergency measures have limits.
    Saudi Arabia’s stockpiles are only sufficient enough to last 26 days, according to Rystad Energy, so if the outage were to last “months” rather than days or weeks, customers may actually feel the supply crunch.

    More at: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oi...s-Analyst.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    The Houthis thanked friends withing Saudi Arabia.

    "Wreckless" aka MBS went against all tradition and booted the other four ruling families from government, when traditionally all five have shared power.

    The house of Saud is in deep $#@!.

    Wreckless' sophomoric understanding of politics and the Necessity for Saudi politics to remain they were is going to be his down fall, and perhaps even SA's downfall.

    It is taking far longer than I expected, but after watching the Battle of Aleppo, I understand the need for slow, methodical hybrid warfare.
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    deescalating things
    Sure, like by breaking the treaty, increasing sanctions, arming the Saudis, and sending more forces to the region.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Sure, like by breaking the treaty, increasing sanctions, arming the Saudis, and sending more forces to the region.

    That's all Trumpspeak for deescalation. You need a new cide book?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  29. #55
    America has depended on Arabia for crude, fracking is a temporary boom. It is an illusion to think the middle east doesn't hold the cheapest, and best quality available, like in Iraq, which the Chinese invested in years ago. America liberated the place, sure a profitable and miserable situation.

    Electric vehicle in times may bring the need for crude down, but other metals will become scarce within time, but the same old problem with energy will appear again, there is no easy fix to this subject, no socialist program or liberty program and solve that.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    America has depended on Arabia for crude, fracking is a temporary boom. It is an illusion to think the middle east doesn't hold the cheapest, and best quality available, like in Iraq, which the Chinese invested in years ago. America liberated the place, sure a profitable and miserable situation.

    Electric vehicle in times may bring the need for crude down, but other metals will become scarce within time, but the same old problem with energy will appear again, there is no easy fix to this subject, no socialist program or liberty program and solve that.
    Get lost, you know nothing about anything.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    ...no socialist program or liberty program and solve that.
    Actually, a free market--arguably a "liberty program"--solved the energy crisis when whales were hunted nearly to extinction. There's absolutely no reason to believe a free market couldn't solve the problem again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Get lost, you know nothing about anything.
    He said no socialist program could solve it. Can't you stop being obnoxious and trying to chase everyone off long enough to congratulate him for progressing all the way up to half right?

    Or are you just mad because half right is something you're still aspiring to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    He said no socialist program could solve it. Can't you stop being obnoxious and trying to chase everyone off long enough to congratulate him for progressing all the way up to half right?

    Or are you just mad because half right is something you're still aspiring to?
    He wants a globalist solution instead, that's half right by you?

    Just quit reflexively disagreeing with me and you won't make a fool of yourself like this.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He wants a globalist solution instead, that's half right by you?

    Just quit reflexively disagreeing with me and you won't make a fool of yourself like this.
    Got a quote on that globalist solution he seeks?

    I don't disagree with you 100% of the time. But those who do are right at least 70% of the time, so it isn't exactly a bad strategy. That said, I mostly call you out not for having opinions, but for being a relentless, spamming $#@! bot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Got a quote on that globalist solution he seeks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    America liberated the place, sure a profitable and miserable situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I don't disagree with you 100% of the time. But those who do are right at least 70% of the time, so it isn't exactly a bad strategy. That said, I mostly call you out not for having opinions, but for being a relentless, spamming $#@! bot.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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