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Thread: Trump to announce gun control this week

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    I will judge the proposal by it's content whenever its released, not what people are guessing at what the content might be.
    Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?
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  3. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?
    Yes. Don't shoot people...without just cause.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon



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  5. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?
    For the Trump trolls, the litmus test is whether or not Trump does it. If he does it, it's acceptable to them.

  6. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    Yes. Don't shoot people...without just cause.
    Sounds about right. The long and the short of it.

  7. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?
    No nukes.
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.

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  8. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?
    Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

  9. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Aren't those all statements?
    No.

    Try reading.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.
    DU YU THUNK the family culd be smert enough to hide the guns take the from 'him' du yu thunk the gobt
    is better are handling family matters :?:


  11. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.
    How many gun deaths do Alzheimer's victims cause each year?

    "Legislating to the exception" is why we are drowning in a sea of laws and regulations without ebb.

    Every "obvious" reason that there "ought to be a law" (because something "bad" might happen) is pregnant with opportunities for never-ending extension and expansion (not to mention corruption and abuse). For just a few examples:
    - Who gets to decide "who is out of it mentally?"
    - Shouldn't we also prohibit the mentally-out-of-it from owning or using knives? Cars? Anything else that might be deemed dangerous? (And who is to do the deeming?)
    - Shouldn't we also prohibit those who live with the mentally-out-it from owning or using the same things? After all, if I own guns and my father, who lives with me is "mentally out of it" ...

    How about this - rather than trying to preemptively constrain what some people might do (a slippery slope that has no bottom), just hold people responsible for the things they have actually done (or failed to do, in the case of negligence - such as allowing my father with Alzheimer's to get hold of one of my guns and use it to hurt or kill someone). Tragedies happen. They always have, and they always will. Trying to obviate them preemptively is a never-ending utopian treadmill that will do nothing but create an ever-growing and increasingly untenable mountain of laws and rules, to the benefit of no one but lawyers and rulers ...


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  12. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.
    Misdiagnosis and robbing people of their rights on guess work is just dandy though, right? Blabbing to doctors about somebody else's gun ownership is just as stupid as talking to cops, and it can end up with your loved ones being hurt just the same.
    Your experience should actually teach you of the folly in lightly allowing people to take the rights of others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  14. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Yea that is very cute.

    Where is the proposal? Has it been released yet? Have you read it?

    NO??? Well well well...

    I will judge the proposal by it's content whenever its released, not what people are guessing at what the content might be.

    You should try it out as well, its called not having a knee-jerk reaction.
    There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

    One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)

  15. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

    One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)
    Exactly this.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Exactly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

    One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)
    Yup... pretty much sums it all up.

    Note that nearly every proposal serves as a catalyst for confiscation, while doing nothing to "prevent" the incidents that served as the impetus for the "must do something" legislation. These events cant get much more illegal than they already are - the laws arent stopping the crimes. So any legislation will be designed to turn lawful owners into newly created criminals - inch by inch, until all practical firearms are out of reach for the average citizen.

    Always remember: Nobody is going to take our guns away, and if you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it. Truth, as spoken by our government.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  17. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

    One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)
    What are you going to say, if in 2 years, nothing has happened, and no laws have been passed? Maybe lots of talk, lots of Trump willing to negotiate. but in the end... nothing?

    Do you acknowledge it is a possibility?

    Should Trump start saying some of the mass shootings are false flags?

    Do you acknowledge the possibility he believes some of them are, but just is not dumb enough to say so?

    Its easy for us to say it anonymously on the internet....
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No.

    Try reading.
    I did. Want me to quote you for you, Wormtongue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Trump administration has asked the Supreme Court
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He proposes

    The Trump administration also plans
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    President Donald Trump said Friday that he would review

    Words words words. Statements, you might say.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I just can't stand liars.

  19. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I did. Want me to quote you for you, Wormtongue?








    Words words words. Statements, you might say.
    Gollum has a reading problem:

    Trump Backs Bid To Strike Down New York City Gun Laws At Supreme Court

    “To confine a weapon to the home is thus to preclude the owner from using it for many of the purposes that the right to keep and bear arms is meant to serve,” Solicitor General Noel Francisco told the justices in court papers.

    Court filings are actions with consequences.

    Trump Pulls Out Of UN Arms Trade Treaty

    President Trump announced Friday that the United States will withdraw its signature from the UN Arms Trade Treaty

    That is an action that ends a treaty that would have destroyed our gun rights.

    Trump to make it easier to export guns

    to do this by shifting oversight of the export of semi-automatic and non-automatic firearms, as well as of various gun components and some types of ammunition, from the Department of State to the Department of Commerce.

    The Trump administration also plans to end State Department oversight of the publication of computer code enabling 3-D printable guns.


    More actions.

    Trump Pushes to Allow Troops to Carry Personal Weapons on Bases

    he would review policies

    Reviewing policies is also an action.



    And that is not all he has done.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #167
    Don't forget this one:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221

    (imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club)
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  21. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Don't forget this one:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221

    (imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club)
    Thanks.
    @CCTelander
    The headline for those who don't follow links:

    Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club
    It might even be a libertarian forum.

    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Don't forget this one:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221

    (imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club)
    Imagine how much power the haters club has on the censornet.

    Trump losing to a nightmarish liberal is not impossible.
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  25. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It might even be a libertarian forum.

    With three libertarians circle jerking each other off about how they are the only real libertarians, and champions of free speech and freedom after banning all dissenters.

    RepublicanGuy is trying to drum up heat and conversation and unity.

    Mmm, dat polarity.

    Ron Paul has not been right about gold or silver yet.
    I was a true blue believer.
    Didn't happen.
    Should I still be a true blue believer that gold and silver should be the base of the currency system?
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  26. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    With three libertarians
    That sounds about right.

    circle jerking each other off about how they are the only real libertarians, and champions of free speech and freedom after banning all dissenters.
    I'm no partisan of free speech; this freedom is infinitely less important than, for example, the freedom to not pay taxes so high that you can't eat.

    The vast majority of the population doesn't need freedom of speech, because they have nothing to say.

    The idiot "intelligentsia" obsesses about this because they talk their book.

    I would also have no problem with the state using police powers to stifle anti-libertarian activists, if that were necessary.

    RepublicanGuy is trying to drum up heat and conversation and unity.
    He's a toddler; anyone engaging him should be embarrassed.

    ...off to discuss monetary policy with my dog.

    Mmm, dat polarity.
    Not hip to your slang bro, yo, dog...

    Ron Paul has not been right about gold or silver yet.
    I was a true blue believer.
    Didn't happen.
    Should I still be a true blue believer that gold and silver should be the base of the currency system?
    The performance of gold and silver as an investment has no bearing on the argument against monetary inflation.

    ...though, over certain long term periods, precious metals have outperformed stocks.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-17-2019 at 09:35 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  27. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I would also have no problem with the state using police powers to stifle anti-libertarian activists, if that were necessary.
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  28. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    The humor is that you're confused and think libertarianism is about "tolerance"?
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  29. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    He's so sure that the kings will always be libertarians because history isn't full of mad monarchs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The humor is that you're confused and think libertarianism is about "tolerance"?
    What's funny is that you think it isn't about liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What's funny is that you think it isn't about liberty.
    No, what's funny is that you think gratuitous aggression against foreigners, who've harmed no one, is fine.

    ...and yet you pretend to object to the pragmatic approach that I was just discussing with what's his name.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  33. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The humor is that you're confused and think libertarianism is about "tolerance"?
    Using force of arms to stifle peoples right to free speech.

    You'd be using police powers to stifle yourself.

    If only it were true.
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  34. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No, what's funny is that you think gratuitous aggression against foreigners, who've harmed no one, is fine.

    ...and yet you pretend to object to the pragmatic approach that I was just discussing with what's his name.
    They do harm.

    And any "aggression" I advocate is minimized to those trying to enter without permission, you advocate for its use against citizens in your "free" country and for using it against foreigners you want to "liberate".
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No, what's funny is that you think gratuitous aggression against foreigners, who've harmed no one, is fine.
    Gratuitous aggression!

    Big words!

    Your IQ must be above 110!

    Do you need an IQ of 111 to understand the meaning of hyperbole?
    His Name was Seth Rich.

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