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Almost anything is potentially justifiable, depending on the circumstances. For example, suppose you're the ruler of a country (let's make up a nonsense word and call you, Oh I don't know, Tsar), and in order to prevent a coup d'etat by an organized revolutionary group which will kill twenty million people, you need to forcibly close down certain newspapers which promote the cause of the aforementioned genocidal lunatics. With those newspapers closed down, and twenty million people not killed, I will sleep just fine. How about you?
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Or just lock them up and take away all their liberty.
Keeping foreigners out of your territory does not make any decision about who may use land, anyone allowed in and any citizen may use any piece of land that they acquire the deed or other rights to on the open market.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Those would be the immigrants who committed no crime but got kidnapped and jailed?
Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to Ted Turner.Keeping foreigners out of your territory does not make any decision about who may use land, anyone allowed in and any citizen may use any piece of land that they acquire the deed or other rights to on the open market.
Do you own the land in question?
...do I owe any rent?
Those would be the citizens you want to lock up for saying things you are too afraid of to defeat on the battlefield of ideas with truth.
Invaders who did not commit any other crime would simply be expelled in my country.
The nation owns the territory just like many other forms of collective ownership (remember when AF asked about Ford or GM or whichever corporation it was?).
As a citizen or a permitted guest you would not owe any rent because I would prohibit property taxes and head taxes in the Constitution.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Yeah. The censorship always backfires and becomes cause for revolution.
Fire in the Minds of Men. James Billington.
The Tsar was doomed because of the reality of what he was, and elitist despot who threw his country into an unwanted war, and then his press said nothing of the wounded or dead. But after a couple of million casualties, censorship can not stop the truth.
The truth will win. Try to destroy its manifestation on ink and paper, and it gains power. Because the truth is beyond printing presses and political forums and television shows.
And the truth is the tsar is dead. His family is dead, and if you were tsar, you'd be dead too. And censorship of papers would mean that it would more readily be spread via hushed tone and secret via angry mothers and sisters and daughters and sons whose father never came home in some war that made no sense to anyone.
Words are $#@!ing useless. But without them, the mind is caged.
Go try and tell someone to shut up in real life.
Instinct kicks in when someone you don't know tells you to shut up.
Makes you want to talk, real bad.
If it would do more good than harm to restrict someone's speech (e.g. V. I. Lenin's)...
...that censorship would be entirely consistent with libertarianism.
FIFYInvaders who did not commit any other crime would simply be expelled in my country.Anyone I don't like will be arbitrarily labelled an invader and put in a cage, because liberty!
No, bolshevik, it doesn't.The nation owns the territory
Individual property owners own the land.
And you are advocating for the violation of their property rights, because you fear taco trucks, or whatever your derangement is.
AF's so caught up in the culture war that he can't see anything else.just like many other forms of collective ownership (remember when AF asked about Ford or GM or whichever corporation it was?).
...e.g. the distinction between a voluntary pooling of property (as in a corporation, LLC, or partnership) and communism.
No, the loosening of the censorship at the insistence of presumably well-meaning but dumb liberals often becomes the cause of the revolution.
Good bookFire in the Minds of Men. James Billington.
The Tsar was doomed by happenstance.The Tsar was doomed because of the reality of what he was, and elitist despot who threw his country into an unwanted war, and then his press said nothing of the wounded or dead. But after a couple of million casualties, censorship can not stop the truth.
There was nothing inherently unstable about that government.
Russia, Germany, Austria, and Turkey all collapsed. Britain and France would also have collapsed had they lost.
...which they nearly did: God, I wish they had.
This past century would have had quite a different appearance.
Gentle George...The truth will win. Try to destroy its manifestation on ink and paper, and it gains power. Because the truth is beyond printing presses and political forums and television shows.
All states war; only some of them (such as the one which succeeded the Tsar's) murder their own citizens by the tens of millions in peacetime.And the truth is the tsar is dead. His family is dead, and if you were tsar, you'd be dead too. And censorship of papers would mean that it would more readily be spread via hushed tone and secret via angry mothers and sisters and daughters and sons whose father never came home in some war that made no sense to anyone.
If it's your intent to make a moral equivalency between the old regime in Russia and Lenin's regime, you're not a person in my opinion.
...in which case, there's no reason for you to hee-haw at me.
It would never do that and even if it did it would conflict with libertarianism.
LOL
I advocate for the rule of law and there would be a law saying who and how many people were allowed to visit or stay, anyone complying with the law would not be expelled whether I like them or not.
You are the one who wants to rule and cage people based on the whims of the monarch.
The land ownership would be held by individuals as I have already said, territory is a different level of ownership and it is collective like a corporation and held by the nation.
I advocate for no violation of property rights but I do advocate for territorial control because I fear those who advocate for the violation of property rights.
You advocate for a violation of speech rights.
National territory is semi-voluntary because we are not born in discreet batches that mature just as the last generation dies but that doesn't make it communism.
It does not determine the ownership of the land as a means of production and it is absolutely required to keep out communists who also happen to oppose national territory and desire globalism just like you.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
No. Begging the court to do something is not an action, especially in a world in which breathless Trumpkins like yourself decide that Trump only means a third of the things that he says, and the rest are either lies or 44DD chess.
The treaty was never ratified. Trump's words did precisely nothing.
"To do"
"Plans"
These are words which are used when referring to things that have not happened.
You know, like the lies that you tell yourself and others about troop withdrawals from Afghanistan. Those sort of things.
Like you, Trump is functionally illiterate. No one actually believes that he can or would review anything.
Also "would," again, refers to an action that has not yet been taken.
You know, like "he said that he would drain the swamp.". And then he didn't. But he said that he would, and that's all that matters to you, isn't it?
It very well could (there have been situations in which it has - as in Imperial Russia before the war) and this wouldn't conflict with libertarianism.
This is what makes me laugh deeply every time I log on or off this place.
You "woke" (if I may use that term) people have absolutely no $#@!ing clue what's required to maintain a stable government.
You're children.
The very existence of a state conflicts with libertarianism; it's all a matter of compromise: minimizing (not abolishing) aggression.
I know you like to redefine words such that putting human beings in cages doesn't count as aggression, but that doesn't change anything.
The difference between us is this:
--I'm willing to tolerate minor aggression to prevent major aggression.
--You're willing to tolerate aggression to make sure no tacos are sold in your neighborhood.
Only one of those positions is consistent with libertarianism.
It's a concept you especially developed to evade the obvious reality; you're treating the country as owned by the public.The land ownership would be held by individuals as I have already said, territory is a different level of ownership
Pinko
Unless the law is being administered by a computer program, that's meaningless.I advocate for the rule of law
All law is the law of men.
...the law would have flexibility as to which particular individuals would be kidnapped and put in a cage - super.and there would be a law saying who and how many people were allowed to visit or stay, anyone complying with the law would not be expelled whether I like them or not.
You are temperamentally (probably not intellectually) incapable of understanding, because you don't really want liberty.You are the one who wants to rule and cage people based on the whims of the monarch.
You want: (a) democracy, and (b) ethnic homogeneity.
That's not going to work out the way you think it will.
Court filings are an action in support of gun rights, your spin is weak.
Trump's action to withdraw the American signature helped to make sure it wouldn't be ratified, both are required and removing one is certainly an action and not words.
Your spin is weak.
The gun export changes did happen, I don't know about the military carry thing but I wouldn't be surprised if it did too.
Your spin is so weak that you just had to ignore this:
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Symptom of a sick and dying government, not cause.
Government is sick and dying because it started the censorship it now wants to unravel.
Among thousands of other factors, that have nothign to do with the right to free speech.
What wizard seeking such fire could abstain from the secrets within?Good book
as would you be. And reality and history shows I am right.The Tsar was doomed by happenstance.
It just collapsed magically.There was nothing inherently unstable about that government.
You do this all the time, you talk to me in hypotheticals and what ifs, as I talk about the realities.
You'd be swimming in pussy, money and sweet freedom if they had, right?God, I wish they had.
This past century would have had quite a different appearance.
I'm talking about the realities of oppression, war, and censorship. You are the one trying to bring morality and ideology into it, while feigning realpolitik.If it's your intent to make a moral equivalency between the old regime in Russia and Lenin's regime
Your lies are weak, I would not cage anyone, I would just eject them for invading, you would cage anyone that you were afraid of.
You r position goes far beyond what is required to form and keep a stable state for the purposes of minimizing aggression, mine is a basic building block.
It's a concept as old as humanity that is also observable in nature and it is fundamentally required to preserve liberty from commies and tyrants like you.
That's nonsense, a law is a set rule that society agrees to follow whether they like to do so in any individual case or not, you are yet again showing that you seek to justify rule by the whim of a tyrant by trying to pretend that the alternative doesn't exist.
The law would not be flexible, that's the point.
And those few who violated it would simply be ejected as opposed to the many people you would lock up in a cage because you disagreed with them and you are too cowardly to defeat them through debate.
You are either playing stupid or actually stupid.
I want a republic with the rule of law and fundamental limits in a Constitution and CULTURAL homogeneity.
It will work far better than any other system.
You want rule by the whims of all powerful and irresponsible tyrants, that's not going to work the way you claim it will. (which begs the question of whether you are just blind or are instead deceitful and intend it to work the way it will)
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
No, read about pre-war, pre-revolutionary Russia. There was the Tsar, attempting various liberal reforms, as with ending the communal land ownership of the peasants (which was extremely economically inefficient). The nobles resisted this; this is a deeply misunderstood aspect of European history on this side of the water. People think the monarch was in league with the nobles; to the contrary, it was constant war, the monarch trying to eliminate their privileges. To put it in modern retard-terms; the Tsar was fighting the "deep state," trying to eliminate special interests.
HOWEVER, as the Tsar was trying to liberalize, against the objections of the very politically influential nobility, the "intelligentsia" (i.e. psychotic morons with no responsibility at all) were propagandizing and sowing as many seeds for insane communistic revolution as they could. The Tsar was far too lenient. Those who joined the various terrorist organizations, attempting to assassinate imperial officials, were occasionally sent to exile in Siberia, but that wasn't nearly enough. You must understand that "exile to Siberia" under the old regime was not a euphemism for a death camp. It meant you would live in a nice house, with good food, no work assignment: your punishment consisting of being isolated from the rest of the country. Lenin got such a sentence. He lived in a little house past the Urals, eventually calling his common law wife to join him. He later described it as the happiest time in his life. He obviously should have been hanged, along with all of his revolutionary associates. The great sin of Nicholas II was excessive leniency, as with Louis XVI. They mistook their political opponents for human beings with consciences.
More persons such as yourself would be able to survive and live well.You'd be swimming in pussy, money and sweet freedom if they had, right?
You're jabbering about nothing..I'm talking about the realities of oppression, war, and censorship. You are the one trying to bring morality and ideology into it, while feigning realpolitik.
Yeah, there is racism in the world, it is real, it is a real obstacle.
YOU THINK RACISM GONNA STOP KANYE?
I am fine, thank you.
Everybody has obstacles. Everybody has to pay taxes and other unfair things in life.
I believe the utopia is today.
This world is the best it has ever been, and it gets better everyday.
very well.You're jabbering about nothing..
...?
What on Earth are you talking about?
Nothing I said had anything remotely to do with race.
I was talking about socialist revolutionaries and their idiot enablers.
Glad to hear itI am fine, thank you.
I'm suddenly inspired to sing We Are The World.Everybody has obstacles.
Everybody has to pay taxes and other unfair things in life.
I hope you're right sunshine, but history suggests otherwise.I believe the utopia is today.
This world is the best it has ever been, and it gets better everyday.
@Swordsmyth
Summarize your point in a paragraph, I'm feeling lazy.
What other time would you rather be living in?
Hey, what if, you actually were turning yourself into police?
Like, giving a psychological profile of yourself?
Everything you say is watched, and recorded.
You know, Winston worked for Minitru.
One of the reasons I now enjoy his torture.
History suggests humans get better.
No, it does not just suggest it, it verifies it.
We progress, and continue to progress.
And technology makes it better.
Deus Ex Machina
Last edited by UWDude; 09-18-2019 at 12:37 AM.
Entrepreneurial people accumulate capital despite the jackass politicians.
That is why you and I $#@! in a toilet rather than in a hole in the ground, among other things.
So, am I pleased to be alive in this particular stage in the long march toward socialism (contra a later stage)?
Of course, but I'll also be complaining about lost opportunities.
Eventually, the behavior of our government will not only slow growth, but cause negative growth.
If you're young enough, you'll be $#@!ting in a hole again.
It really is interesting from here to see what happens when the words flow.
Using police force to silence an anti-libertarian activist, using the anti-libertarian activists' willingness to use force to silence opposing ideas as proof of their anti-libertarian activism.
The world might $#@!ing suck, but MP's they got to beat up Winston and his party bitch.
Yeah, two bitch party members,one works for the ministry of truth, and the other is a member of the junior anti-sex league.
Moral of the story:
If you find yourself living in 1984, dont be a party member, they get tortured.
Dont be a prole, you cant. You aren't stupid.
Join the Military police, and execute party members.
This is the utopia they chose, in their ideology.
Deliver to them their sweet salvation.
Their burning nihilism at the stake.
XD
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