Labour want to negotiate a deal then campaign to Remain

[Warlord]

I think this is also Zippy's position. Ridiculous!

[Warlord]

Is this Boris Johnson's endgame? PM says he will refuse to delay Brexit even if he's LEGALLY required - forcing him to resign or MPs to kick him out - as Lords pass anti-No Deal law and Jeremy Corbyn prepares to block election on Monday

-Boris Johnson says he will not ask EU to postpone Brexit past October 31 even if anti-No Deal bill becomes law

-The anti-No Deal legislation is expected to be given Royal Assent on Monday after House of Lords approves it

-Opposition leaders today agreed to vote against or abstain when PM triggers election vote on Monday

-They want a Brexit delay agreed before voting for a snap poll, meaning an election in November is probable

-Without their support Mr Johnson is unlikely to secure the two thirds support he needs for October 15 poll

-Mr Johnson today declined to rule out the possibility of resigning if he fails to deliver Brexit by Halloween

-New survey shows the major danger for Mr Johnson if an early general election happens after October 31

-Conservative Party is polling at 37% for pre-October 31 election but just 28% for post-October 31 election

-Majority of lost Tory support in the second scenario goes to the Brexit Party, sparking renewed calls for pact

-Survey shows how important it is for the Prime Minister to force an early election before Brexit deadline

-Came amid growing anger over Mr Johnson's use of police officers as the backdrop for 'political stunt' spech

-Mr Johnson in Scotland today ahead of a trip to see the Queen at Balmoral Castle along with Carrie Symonds

-Anti-Brexit campaigners this morning saw bid to stop PM proroguing Parliament rejected by High Court

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-required.html

[Warlord]

No Brexit and no election. The people are going to be furious and will just vote harder when the time comes. No doubt Zippy endorses all these pointless stunts and delays.

[Zippyjuan]

No Brexit and no election. The people are going to be furious and will just vote harder when the time comes. No doubt Zippy endorses all these pointless stunts and delays.

My position is that Boris Johnson can't be trusted and is just an opportunist politician. He doesn't really care about Brexit- he was publicly against it in 2016. He just saw it as a step to becoming PM which is all he really cares about. He wants an election soon so he can lock in his term as PM before any negative effects of Brexit become obvious- and there will be plenty of negative effects. There wont' be any "new deal" on Brexit- the EU has said so and Johnson isn't negotiating really anyways. It will be a hard Brexit with the resulting automatic tariffs. The fight in Parliament is only about the timing and a power struggle. But there isn't any other viable candidates for PM. Corbyn is not popular. The UK may already be in recession- their GDP fell last quarter. Brexit will insure one.

[Warlord]

My position is that Boris Johnson can't be trusted and is just an opportunist politician. He doesn't really care about Brexit- he was publicly against it in 2016. He just saw it as a step to becoming PM which is all he really cares about. He wants an election soon so he can lock in his term as PM before any negative effects of Brexit become obvious- and there will be plenty of negative effects. There wont' be any "new deal" on Brexit- the EU has said so and Johnson isn't negotiating really anyways. It will be a hard Brexit with the resulting automatic tariffs. The fight in Parliament is only about the timing and a power struggle. But there isn't any other viable candidates for PM. Corbyn is not popular. The UK may already be in recession- their GDP fell last quarter. Brexit will insure one.

Germany is also probably in recession. The economic cycle has nothing to do with Brexit.

[Swordsmyth]

Brexit can't be stopped, if Johnson allows it to be stopped then he didn't really mean what he said about it.
He already surrendered on the lords filibuster, if he surrenders on the royal assent/consent (those are two different things) and doesn't refuse to ask for an extension or resign to force Brexit on Oct. 31 then my distrust of him will be confirmed.

[Swordsmyth]

Leaders are unlikely to sanction a third extension to the EU’s two-year Article 50 exit clause without cast-iron guarantees of a general election, EU sources have warned. In a boost to Brexiteers, signs have emerged that EU capitals are ready to cut ties with Britain amid growing frustrations with long-lasting Westminster deadlock. Brussels sources fear they are becoming the sideshow in a bitter domestic feud between Britain’s Leavers and Remainers.

An EU diplomat familiar with the discussions told Express.co.uk: “I think there is no extension at all unless there is a general election.
“Why would we? For what purpose? Being the background music to the showdown in London has its limits.”


Previously EU leaders have warned that they will not be forthcoming with a third offer to delay the UK’s divorce.
The EU will insist that any extension must come with tough political conditions, which are widely regarded as a general election or second referendum.


Without guarantees of a general election, the effort to force the Prime Minister to request a Brexit delay could fall on deaf ears at the European Council summit in October.
Any Article 50 extension requires unanimous support amongst the EU’s remaining 27 leaders, so could easily be thwarted.
Last night Michel Barnier warned capitals that Brexit talks are stuck in “paralysis” and unlikely to result in a deal.


The EU’s chief negotiator told senior diplomats: “We are currently in a state of paralysis.”
Mr Johnson losing his parliamentary majority in the Commons has sparked yet more alarm that the two sides are having for no deal on October 31.
EU diplomats warned that the bloc’s willingness to consider an extension will hinge on Britain setting out a clear roadmap for how more time could lead to a positive outcome and legal guarantees that the Government would not disrupt EU affairs.
EU officials have also stressed that leaders alone won't be able to force Britain into an extension.
European Council sources say that the decision only becomes legally binding after the EU27 and UK Government have reached an agreement.
This makes an Article 50 extension impossible without the consent of Mr Johnson.
France is once again expected to lead the efforts to ensure the bloc is tough on detail if a request is ever made.


Amelie de Montchalin, France's European affairs minister, today said: "It's not because a problem is complicated that by diluting it over time delaying it for three months without changing anything, it will be resolved.
"When I hear the British saying 'Give us three months more and we will solve the problem', we can see that another six months would not solve the problem, nor another three months.
"They have to be able to tell us what they want."
She added: "We know what they don't want but we are still struggling to understand what they do want."
France’s Emmanuel Macron has previously insisted there are no guarantees that the bloc will simply hand Britain further delays to avoid a no-deal Brexit.
Ahead of sanctioning Britain’s second Article 50 extension in April, he said: “Our priority must be the good functioning of the EU and the single market.
“The EU can’t be held hostage long-term by the resolution of a political crisis in the UK.”

More at: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-latest-update

[Zippyjuan]

Germany is also probably in recession. The economic cycle has nothing to do with Brexit.

No, but Brexit will make their economy worse.

[Zippyjuan]

EU- no delay or extension unless there is an election.

UK parties- there will be no election unless there is an extension.

Nobody can agree on anything over Brexit. Which is why the crash out is the only likely outcome. And I don't think that will be a good outcome for the UK.

[Warlord]

No, but Brexit will make their economy worse.

No it wont Zippy. Britain will be free to sign trade deals with the US, Canada, Australia and so on. Brexit is a massive opportunity.

[Swordsmyth]

EU- no delay or extension unless there is an election.

UK parties- there will be no election unless there is an extension.

Nobody can agree on anything over Brexit. Which is why the crash out is the only likely outcome. And I don't think that will be a good outcome for the UK.

It will be the best outcome for the UK and the worst for the EU.

[Zippyjuan]

No it wont Zippy. Britain will be free to sign trade deals with the US, Canada, Australia and so on. Brexit is a massive opportunity.

They have been free to make such deals all along. A no-deal imposes WTO automatic tariffs which will be as high as 40% on some items (on both imports and exports). Those were zero while Britain is part of the EU. 46% of their exports go to the EU- those will suddenly cost more so the EU will likely buy much less. Exports account for 30% of Britain's GDP.

[Warlord]

They are not free to do trade deals independently. Trade is handled by the EU

[Warlord]

Fury of forgotten voters: Almost half back Boris Johnson on early election and most want no deal rather than Jeremy Corbyn, poll shows

The British public are utterly frustrated with politicians, a poll for the Daily Mail has found.

Three-quarters of those questioned said the political class had failed to function effectively and were not serving the interests of the country.

The survey found that almost half want an early election and that MPs should not have blocked one in a Commons vote on Wednesday, while less than a third do not.

Boris Johnson remains the most popular choice for prime minister, with a 20-point lead over Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn – who came in behind those who gave the answer 'don't know'.

And given the choice between a No Deal Brexit and accepting the Labour leader in No 10, those questioned overwhelmingly chose the former.

In addition, more people agreed with Mr Johnson's decision to expel 21 Tory MPs who voted with Labour against a No Deal Brexit this week.

In a surprise result, Mr Johnson was found to be more trusted on the NHS than Mr Corbyn, despite the health service traditionally seen as the preserve of Labour.

Numbers aside, a 'stitch-up' between Mr Corbyn and Remain parties last night scuppered Boris Johnson's bid for a snap election.

Labour, the Lib Dems and Scots and Welsh nationalists have agreed to block the public going to the polls before October 31.

It leaves the Prime Minister in limbo, forced to choose between resigning or defying a law passed by MPs ruling out a No Deal Brexit. He has emphatically ruled out further delay.

Following a torrid week in which he lost a string of Commons votes, lost his majority and saw his own brother quit as a minister, Mr Johnson struck a defiant note yesterday and hinted he could defy the anti No Deal law.

Asked about the possibility of asking the EU for an extension, he replied: 'I will not. I don't want a delay.'

There was speculation in Westminster last night that Mr Johnson could even tactically quit to let Mr Corbyn or another political rival enter Downing Street. They would be expected to request a Brexit extension before calling an election.

But asked whether he might resign instead, Mr Johnson said: 'That is not a hypothesis I'm willing to contemplate. I want us to get this thing done.'

The Prime Minister's opponents claimed they had him boxed in and on the run.

Although he remains more popular than Mr Corbyn, there has been a sharp increase in the proportion believing he is doing a worse job than they would have expected.

According to the Electoral Calculus website, a general election would leave the Conservatives 14 seats short of a majority. The Tories are forecast to win 312 seats – down six – while Labour would be on 218 – down 44. The Lib Dems would gain 36 seats to give them a tally of 48, and the Brexit Party would pick up 15 seats.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oll-shows.html

[Warlord]

[Zippyjuan]

From that link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oll-shows.html

Although he remains more popular than Mr Corbyn, there has been a sharp increase in the proportion believing he is doing a worse job than they would have expected.

The Conservative lead in the polls has also fallen to just five points. They are now on 29 per cent (down two points), Labour on 24 per cent (no change) and the Liberal Democrats on 18 per cent. The Brexit Party has had a boost, rising three points to 17 per cent.

According to the Electoral Calculus website, a general election would leave the Conservatives 14 seats short of a majority. The Tories are forecast to win 312 seats – down six – while Labour would be on 218 – down 44. The Lib Dems would gain 36 seats to give them a tally of 48, and the Brexit Party would pick up 15 seats.

[Swordsmyth]

From that link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oll-shows.html

Farage is in charge now.

[Zippyjuan]

Farage is in charge now.

He is the new Prime Minister? When was he elected?

[Swordsmyth]

He is the new Prime Minister? When was he elected?

I didn't say that.
Boris has to deal with him in order to stay in office, that means Farage has massive leverage.