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Thread: Forget the Russians: Itís the Federal Reserve Seeking to Meddle in Our Elections

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Their books from 1913 to present.


    http://www.ourrepubliconline.com/Quote/709
    I don't think they go back as far as 1913, but you can read the audits of their books if you are seriously interested in doing so. Link: https://www.federalreserve.gov/about...statements.htm

    Federal Reserve System Audited Annual Financial Statements

    The Board of Governors and the Federal Reserve Banks are all subject to several levels of audit and review. The Reserve Banks' financial statements are audited annually by an independent public accounting firm retained by the Board of Governors. To ensure auditor independence, the Board requires that the external auditor be independent in all matters relating to the audit. Specifically, the external auditor may not perform services for the Reserve Banks or others that would place it in a position of auditing its own work, making management decisions on behalf of the Reserve Banks, or in any other way impairing its audit independence. In addition, the Reserve Banks, including the consolidated LLC, are subject to oversight by the Board.

    The Board of Governors' financial statements are audited annually by an independent public accounting firm retained by the Board's Office of Inspector General. The audit firm also provides a report on compliance and on internal control over financial reporting in accordance with government auditing standards. The Office of Inspector General also conducts audits, reviews, and investigations relating to the Board's programs and operations as well as of Board functions delegated to the Reserve Banks.
    Back to 2008: https://www.federalreserve.gov/about...ts-archive.htm

    Minutes of their meetings are also available. https://www.federalreserve.gov/monet...ccalendars.htm


    "Audit the Fed" is about auditing their deliberations, not their books.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-02-2019 at 04:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Except Wilson never said that. And it is some bits of speeches he made before even signing the Federal Reserve Act into law- speeches from 1911.

    https://www.kennethballard.com/?p=4743
    Ahh, but the people believe the things that Fake News spews about President Trump without hesitation. I have no doubt Wilson had regrets at what he did to our country.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.Ē ~ Charles Dickens



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "Audit the Fed" is about auditing their deliberations, not their books.
    Zippy really shines today. Are deliberations same as transactions?

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    But if the economy gets bigger, it needs money. You can't have an economy with just one coin in it. As it grows, you need more coins to conduct more transactions.
    One gram of gold mounted in a coin made of nickel would be worth and could be valued at $50.

    One 50th of 1 gram of gold can be reliably and permanently embedded in fabric stock for paper money. Up to like half of a gram can be reliably and permanently embedded in paper stock now. That’s paper money with the actual gold value embedded in it. Anywhere from $1 to $25 can be put in cloth “paper” money, and then gold embedded in nickel coins for $50-$1500.

    It would actually be pretty pretty easy to start making and using real money. You just have to evaluate value according to M2 vs total gold stock and then transition to a final peg once the markets stabilize.

  7. #35
    End
    It

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So we could run the economy with one ounce of gold. Just give everybody one 19 trillionth of an ounce for every dollar they currently have. (try making change for that at the grocery store!)

    (Actually it would be a smaller amount than that- $19 trillion is GDP and does not include money people have invested and saved- US net worth is over $100 trillion).
    There is a lot more gold out there than that and it would depend on what the market decided about how other goods were valued compared to gold.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is a lot more gold out there than that and it would depend on what the market decided about how other goods were valued compared to gold.
    That is how much the US government has if you want to back money with it. Should they be using tax dollars and buy up tons more? Or maybe seize it from people?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That is how much the US government has if you want to back money with it. Should they be using tax dollars and buy up tons more? Or maybe seize it from people?
    One ounce?

    Originally Posted by Zippyjuan
    So we could run the economy with one ounce of gold.



    And people will trade in gold for new dollars as they used to.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Zippy really shines today. Are deliberations same as transactions?
    Isn't every day on Ronpaulforums, another one for @Swordsmyth and @Zippyjuan?!?


    Just look at the following gem...
    According to one of our most respected (or at least one of the members with the most posts), the Fed is indeed "audited"!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    True the Federal Reserve turns their profits over to the US Treasury (minus their expenses). They are non-profit in that they do not retain their profits. And they are audited. https://www.federalreserve.gov/about...statements.htm
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6564411


    My reply to the claim that the Fed is "audited"...
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    Thatīs a ridiculous claim to make, especially on Ronpaulforums.
    Maybe youīve heard of former Congressman Ron Paul, who over the years has repeatedly called for auditing the Fed.

    An organisation can either be audited or not.
    The ďauditĒ of the Federal Reserve is not a (real) ďauditĒ at all, but a mere PR-stunt. Such an ďaudiotĒ is comparable to saying that the customs can check all things that are imported with the exception of plastic bags containing some white powderÖ

    It is prohibited by law to audit the following areas of the Federal Reserve:
    1. Transactions with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or private international financing organisation;
    2. Decisions and actions on monetary policy matters, like discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;
    3. Transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee.

    For more information on the ďaudiotĒ of the Federal Reserve, see the following story by some Senator named Rand Paul: http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/21/it...audit-the-fed/
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldnít block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page3

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The price of gold would change if they used it for money (they could set it at whatever they wanted once) and they can tax people to get the money they need.
    Economic law says that the value of gold can't change, only the price in nominal currency can be changed via temporary suppression measures and currency devaluation. Back during FDR's days they learned that direct market intervention, through buying and selling of physical gold, in changing the price of gold doesn't work. The only way to change the currency price of gold is to devalue the currency, and later, paper suppression measures. In other words, for the modern situation, they would have to declare a devaluation of the FRN -and- cease the temporary suppression measures (COMEX/GLD paper games) in order for gold to return to its correct FRN value. If that does happen (and I'm sure it will), for all intents and purposes the FRN becomes gold-backed for a short period but also would soon be perceived as worthless.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Maybe the Fed should surrender independence and inflate the money supply as much as the President wants and bail him out of the slowing economy caused by his trade wars? Or not inflate the money supply and be accused of trying to get Trump out of office? They will be called biased no matter what they do.
    The FED should be eliminated! Central Banking is a form of Socialism!

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Economic law says that the value of gold can't change, only the price in nominal currency can be changed via temporary suppression measures and currency devaluation. Back during FDR's days they learned that direct market intervention, through buying and selling of physical gold, in changing the price of gold doesn't work. The only way to change the currency price of gold is to devalue the currency, and later, paper suppression measures. In other words, for the modern situation, they would have to declare a devaluation of the FRN -and- cease the temporary suppression measures (COMEX/GLD paper games) in order for gold to return to its correct FRN value. If that does happen (and I'm sure it will), for all intents and purposes the FRN becomes gold-backed for a short period but also would soon be perceived as worthless.
    The value of gold can and does change relative to all other goods depending on how much of it is available.
    That doesn't really make much difference though and the market deals with it just fine.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The value of gold can and does change relative to all other goods depending on how much of it is available.
    That doesn't really make much difference though and the market deals with it just fine.
    No, it doesn't. An ounce of gold buys today the same goods as it bought 200 years ago. Or 1000 years ago.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No, it doesn't. An ounce of gold buys today the same goods as it bought 200 years ago. Or 1000 years ago.
    Some goods yes, other goods no.
    And which are which changes.
    The market keeps things at a relative equilibrium but it is not constant and there are many factors that affect it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Some goods yes, other goods no.
    And which are which changes.
    The market keeps things at a relative equilibrium but it is not constant and there are many factors that affect it.
    Nice word salad reply that means absolutely nothing. Good job.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Nice word salad reply that means absolutely nothing. Good job.
    You lack reading comprehension.

    The market is dynamic in all aspects, there are no absolute constants.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You lack reading comprehension.

    The market is dynamic in all aspects, there are no absolute constants.
    Except the purchasing power of gold. Which was the whole point of my original post. They can't change the value of gold, they can only change the price of gold in nominal currency. Value is not the same as price.

    Or continue to double down on being wrong. Whatever.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Except the purchasing power of gold. Which was the whole point of my original post. They can't change the value of gold, they can only change the price of gold in nominal currency. Value is not the same as price.

    Or continue to double down on being wrong. Whatever.
    Your insistence on gold as an absolute constant is ridiculous, not only does it vary in time based on supply vs. demand of both gold and the goods it is exchanged for but it varies in different areas based on local supply vs. demand of both gold and the goods it is exchanged for.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Your insistence on gold as an absolute constant is ridiculous, not only does it vary in time based on supply vs. demand of both gold and the goods it is exchanged for but it varies in different areas based on local supply vs. demand of both gold and the goods it is exchanged for.
    Prove it.

    Gold and silver represent the main two celestial constants to the history of the planet, hence why it is economic law.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Prove it.

    Gold and silver represent the main two celestial constants to the history of the planet, hence why it is economic law.
    LOL

    The Incas used gold for plumbing because they had so much of it and when the Spanish stole most of it and sent it home it caused ruinous inflation until the market adapted and much of it left Spain to buy hard assets from other countries.

    How about you try to prove that it is a constant throughout time and space beyond some kind of strange religious pronouncements?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    The Incas used gold for plumbing because they had so much of it and when the Spanish stole most of it and sent it home it caused ruinous inflation until the market adapted and much of it left Spain to buy hard assets from other countries.

    How about you try to prove that it is a constant throughout time and space beyond some kind of strange religious pronouncements?
    It is a constant because it is always valued by civilizations throughout history as representations of the sun, with silver representing the moon. You are talking about economic rules while I am talking about economic laws. The difference being that laws are historical agreement over many cultures that something has value to society. Rules, however, are fleeting changes at the whims of men over relatively short periods of time. Your own example of the Incas proves this out. BOTH civilizations, which were entirely unconnected, BOTH viewed gold and silver as having value. The theft of the metals by Spain triggered short term market distortions that eventually worked themselves out. Yet, gold is still valuable in Spain today. Is stolen Incan gold still screwing up the Spanish economy now? Only man's interventions in markets distort the price of gold and silver and always temporarily until it returns to its rightful place as valuable. Heck, even JP Morgan summed it up well when he said gold and silver are money. All else is credit. Why? Because gold and silver are the constants and that is law. Credit is man-made and is comprised of rules. Rules are what governs currencies, not laws. If you want to argue with him, go for it.
    Last edited by devil21; 09-05-2019 at 01:18 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    It is a constant because it is always valued by civilizations throughout history as representations of the sun, with silver representing the moon. You are talking about economic rules while I am talking about economic laws. The difference being that laws are historical agreement over many cultures that something has value to society. Rules, however, are fleeting changes at the whims of men over relatively short periods of time. Your own example of the Incas proves this out. BOTH civilizations, which were entirely unconnected, BOTH viewed gold and silver as having value. The theft of the metals by Spain triggered short term market distortions that eventually worked themselves out. Yet, gold is still valuable in Spain today. Is stolen Incan gold still screwing up the Spanish economy now? Only man's interventions in markets distort the value of gold and silver and always temporarily until it returns to its rightful place as valuable. Heck, even JP Morgan summed it up well when he said gold and silver are money. All else is credit. Why? Because gold and silver are the constants and that is law. Credit is man-made and is comprised of rules. Rules are what governs currencies, not laws. If you want to argue with him, go for it.
    There were plenty of cultures that used different items for money instead of gold and silver.

    But I never said that gold or silver might not be valuable, I said their exact value varies throughout time and space and that is quite true, the value of gold IS still affected by the Incan gold, if it had never been discovered there would be less gold in the world and each oz. of gold from other sources would be more valuable, if a massive new source of gold was found tomorrow that doubled the world's supply the value of each oz. that we currently have would be severely diminished.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There were plenty of cultures that used different items for money instead of gold and silver.
    And where is that "money" now? Relegated to the pages of history. No, SS, they used different items as currency, not money. I assure you that while sticks with notches were being passed between the peasants as "money", the King was still accounting for those sticks in GOLD. There's nothing new under the sun...

    But I never said that gold or silver might not be valuable, I said their exact value varies throughout time and space and that is quite true, the value of gold IS still affected by the Incan gold, if it had never been discovered there would be less gold in the world and each oz. of gold from other sources would be more valuable, if a massive new source of gold was found tomorrow that doubled the world's supply the value of each oz. that we currently have would be severely diminished.
    You still don't understand the difference between value and price. Price is a function of man's temporary interventions. Value is a constant that asserts itself, despite man's interventions. Wise people know this. And it's such a simple concept that I wonder why more do not grasp it.
    Last edited by devil21; 09-05-2019 at 01:07 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    And where is that "money" now? Relegated to the pages of history. No, SS, they used different items as currency, not money. I assure you that while sticks with notches were being passed between the peasants as "money", the King was still accounting for those sticks in GOLD. There's nothing new under the sun...
    That could just as easily happen to gold and silver, they could end up being used for industrial applications, jewelry and decoration and not for money if our culture replaced them with something else.


    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    You still don't understand the difference between value and price. Price is a function of man's temporary interventions. Value is a constant that asserts itself, despite man's interventions. Wise people know this. And it's such a simple concept that I wonder why more do not grasp it.
    Price doesn't apply to money because price is how much money a thing costs, value is subjective and inconstant.
    The value of money is how much of other things it will buy and that is affected by many factors.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    ....some people will never understand economics. Most people, in fact.^^^
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

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