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Thread: Secession

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Loser slave is projecting.
    Plant, you are a wacko. Such a foolish man, you claim to be lumber jack. You delusional butt wipe.



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    Plant, you are a wacko. Such a foolish man, you claim to be lumber jack. You delusional butt wipe.
    Your delusions are showing again, I never claimed to be a lumberjack.

    Tell the nice nurse it's time for your medicine again.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    First thing is the US is an exceptional country, as it maintains the peace, it keeps the sea lanes open. People like Ron Paul see the world in one dimensional thinking. An idealistic way. He is naive.

    I am not suggesting his former republican party members were correct about the world and all things, but a world with a small power like America would be a different place than it is. 'I see no impact', you don't read history.

    As for whether there will be a world government, unlikely. The UN is the current place for any type of government. It was created as a discussion organization. It hasn't really met the founders of the goals it was set out, but it isn't perfect. And probably never will be, especially since there are no elections for it, or direct say by any of us anywhere in the world.

    Many on here can't seem to understand that if personnel were withdrawn and the US order of the world changed, it affect your lives in real ways. And mine too, living in the UK. Including the Irish on both sides of the border. Ireland aligns itself with the US, EU, it isn't a neutral country, and depends on the security of the EU, US, and the British to some extent.
    So then, no fewer countries (presumably), but also no more countries. Okay. We've achieved the optimum number of countries. And you're holding this position based on... what, exactly?


    As for whether or not the US fading from the global scene would impact our lives... well... lives change all the time. Our lives are ours to live. As for whether it would impact yours? To paraphrase Rhett Butler: frankly, sir, I don't give a damn. I was not born to subsidize your security.

  5. #94
    That is where you wrong. In the state you live in, once your home state is independent, then you need to watch your neighbors because they aren't bound by a constitution. It is easy to dream about an independent country, but the reality of changing it, would lead to other problems in the region.

    And then I expressed the Irish depend on a peaceful world, so they support the world power. This is naive thinking, oh I don't give a damn. This isn't about a water problem down the road. Seriously.

    And quite doubt many Americans would want to put up with the tyranny of liberty, hardship, that is the true reality of that world. It must suck to live a world where you live by authority, that means nothing to you, and you think nobody matters to you, and you think you can do just fine on your own. This is the world we live in, not a dream.

  6. #95
    Some numbers from Mises are below. I skimmed over it, so.....



    The new in vogue term, apparently, is "sovereignty referendums":

    Since Massachusetts kicked off the trend in 1776, more than 630 sovereignty referendums have been held. There has been a surge in recent years, as you can see in the figure below. The 1990s alone saw a record 110 sovereignty referendums, largely because of the numerous autonomy and independence referendums triggered as the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia broke up. The 2000s saw 88 more sovereignty referendums, many related to whether the European Union should continue expanding eastward...

    Why the surge? Although each referendum has its own history, we can find some general reasons. Perhaps most important, conflicts over sovereignty have proliferated. According to a recent study, since 1945 the number of ethnic movements demanding greater self-determination has increased more than tenfold. Many former colonies voted on their independence...

    Whatís more, when international actors intervene in nationalist conflicts they increasingly promote sovereignty referendums. For instance, in 1999 Portugal brokered a referendum in East Timor, which was administered by the United Nations. Some observers have even suggested that there is a new international norm emerging requiring referendums to legitimate territorial realignments.


    https://mises.org/wire/secession-going-mainstream
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  7. #96
    This is a lot of incoherent babbling that doesn't address a single point I made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    That is where you wrong. In the state you live in, once your home state is independent, then you need to watch your neighbors because they aren't bound by a constitution.


    It is easy to dream about an independent country, but the reality of changing it, would lead to other problems in the region.
    Well shoot, ya got me there. My plan calls for an end to problems, but it turns out, as you say, there would be other problems. I hadn't considered that.



    And then I expressed the Irish depend on a peaceful world, so they support the world power. This is naive thinking, oh I don't give a damn. This isn't about a water problem down the road. Seriously.
    See, you said 'seriously', but the problem is that I don't think you're serious. If you are, you should try to form coherent sentences. I couldn't say what you're trying to express here if I had a decoder ring.

    And quite doubt many Americans would want to put up with the tyranny of liberty, hardship, that is the true reality of that world. It must suck to live a world where you live by authority, that means nothing to you, and you think nobody matters to you, and you think you can do just fine on your own. This is the world we live in, not a dream.


    lol 'tyranny of liberty'. Quite a shame what's become of European thinking these days...


    Sidenote, I'd resolved to try to be more understanding of contra viewpoints around here, in my limited interactions going forward. However, in my defense, I'm not sure any of this qualifies as a 'viewpoint'... so I think I'm still in good standing with regard to my resolution.
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 10-11-2019 at 01:57 AM.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Some numbers from Mises are below. I skimmed over it, so.....
    These people apparently didn't get Republicanguy's memo: NO MORE NEW COUNTRIES. Also, no fewer countries. We've achieved optimum countryness. These people should have submitted their application before the deadline. Sorry. Rules are rules.

  10. #98
    You want to live in a world where everything falls into place, a quick fix. There isn't one.

    Many countries economies and living standards would change, the smaller ones as a result of no world order by America. The Russian head of state claimed the west are the empires today. But his own country won't tolerate many movements that expand debate, and his society doesn't do democratic elections very well either, it isn't in their history. It is so recent.

    No nation that has a large economy remains within its borders, sooner or later profiteering and consumption will happen, especially the latter.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    You want to live in a world where everything falls into place, a quick fix. There isn't one.
    Oh, I do? I didn't realize that.

    Strawman much?

    Many countries economies and living standards would change, the smaller ones as a result of no world order by America.
    Well I'm very sorry to hear that. Once again, I was not born to subsidize the living standards and economies of many countries.

    Could you respond to that? Could you explain to me where I'm wrong to think that I am not obligated through coercion and the forced confiscation of my property to subsidize the economies, living standards and safety of the rest of the world?

    The Russian head of state claimed the west are the empires today. But his own country won't tolerate many movements that expand debate, and his society doesn't do democratic elections very well either, it isn't in their history. It is so recent.
    Okay. Thanks for the info.

    Am I missing something or does this have nothing at all to do with what we're "discussing"?

    No nation that has a large economy remains within its borders, sooner or later profiteering and consumption will happen, especially the latter.
    Again, what does this have to do with secession? Does America not trade with Canada, Great Britain, etc.? If I recall the history correctly, America seceded from the UK, yet here we are still doing business with those countries. I'm assuming (based on the above comment) that you believe that once a population secedes from a broader state it's people are going to become isolationist. Why? One of the very first things the Americans did after they seceded from GB was to establish diplomatic and economic relations with a multitude of European countries, GB included.

    Secession simply enables more local control of the state, which is an objective net positive for the individual. There's nothing inherently isolationist in it.

  12. #100
    You or anyone may not like that. But you pay for Iceland's defense, do you not? How many Canadian or US Sorties over Iceland over the years.

    I was thinking with Ireland's continued EU membership they may have to contribute to the EU's security, and they don't want to be a part of that. May be they have to eventually assist in that.

    You are proposing Scotland go it alone, in the free market, and not be a member of the UN, I am sure. But that has real world implications for the UK. Nuclear weapons, power, influence. Just withdrawing and going it alone in the modern world of just in time deliveries to the super market, just seems crazy. What happens in one part of the world has an affect on all of us.

    Burying your head is what you are doing, until the day you need assistance paid for by somebody else's dosh. It is perspective.

    May be the withdrawal from Syria is nothing to anybody except those who unfortunately in that mess. But the US can't be smaller and not have some influence over the world to maintain some order, otherwise others will. In an ideal world of liberty, and property, and honestly you could live in a world being an opportunist opt out to everything doesn't affect you as you may think, but it is wrong. Just like a Texan civil war would have an affect on the neighbours and cause security problems all through the US.

    This is reality.

  13. #101
    Oohkay... that's a no, then. Sorry I wasted your and my time.

    Moving on... So again I reiterate that secessionism seems like a very open piece of intellectual territory for this movement to take.

  14. #102
    Yeah, the US keeps the trade going, you make it sound as if only the conflicts destroy everything, what would no influence look like? Sounds like you don't want to think more in depth about this problem of the world. Down the road from where I live a flooding happened, but it didn't affect me where. This is how you see the world, in the view of being an American.

    You can't look at it like it is just a water pipe rupture down the road.

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