Secession

[A Son of Liberty]

Help me understand why the focus of this movement hasn't become secessionism.

This is currently a country of 330 million people and growing every day, 4 million square miles of land mass, 6 time zones, 3,000 miles east to west, temperate zones to deserts, mountains to plains, densely populated areas like New York and Los Angeles to places like Wyoming, where off the top of my head I think prong-horn outnumber human beings something like 4-to-1... a multi-cultural population that varies from recent African immigrants to indigenous peoples to "settlers" who can trace their lineage back over 4 centuries within a single county and almost literally everything in between... Montanans have more in common with people from Saskatchewan than people in Florida. People in southern California have more in common with people in northern Mexico than people in Missouri.

The idea that this "country" should focus so intensely on a central government in Washington, D.C., let alone on the so-called "local" governments within their own "states" is a $#@!ing lunacy. When you honestly take a step back and consider what it is that we're discussing when it comes to national politics, if you don't come to the conclusion that the whole goddamned business is completely bonkers, you're missing something.

Ultimately, as an anti-statist, my goal is micro-secession, but I'd really like someone to explain to me what the legitimate argument is against breaking this monolith up into more reasonable management districts that make considerably more sense than this untenable mass.

[Occam's Banana]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to A Son of Liberty again.

Help me understand why the focus of this movement hasn't become secessionism.

[A Son of Liberty]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to A Son of Liberty again.

The rep should go to you, sir. The post was inspired by one of your recent posts if I recall correctly. Regardless:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.

[Suzanimal]

The rep should go to you, sir. The post was inspired by one of your recent posts if I recall correctly. Regardless:

It was meant that way.

[Origanalist]

I don't think most here are against it, although I'm sure there is a significant percentage that are. As far as why it isn't the focus, probably just the daily distraction of left vs right.

[A Son of Liberty]

I don't think most here are against it, although I'm sure there is a significant percentage that are. As far as why it isn't the focus, probably just the daily distraction of left vs right.

I don't think most here aren't against it either, but I do think that there's a considerable - and perhaps organized - focus upon distracting from that end.

I think that with Ron's failed 2012 run, it's the most logical end to this movement. I think we should be actively enabling secessionist movements, where ever the may arise, from whatever political perspective they may arise.

I live in Appalachia... I think it's time for me to start advocating for a secessionist movement within that region. I think there's actually a good base for that endeavor, given the abundant natural resources and the natural geography, as well as the lingering spirit of the people who live here.

[Origanalist]

I don't think most here aren't against it either, but I do think that there's a considerable - and perhaps organized - focus upon distracting from that end.

I think that with Ron's failed 2012 run, it's the most logical end to this movement. I think we should be actively enabling secessionist movements, where ever the may arise, from whatever political perspective they may arise.

I live in Appalachia... I think it's time for me to start advocating for a secessionist movement within that region. I think there's actually a good base for that endeavor, given the abundant natural resources and the natural geography, as well as the lingering spirit of the people who live here.

Maybe you should run it by Tod Evans, You two may be local.

[Occam's Banana]

Maybe you should run it by Tod Evans, You two may be local.

@tod evans is Ozarkian.

[Origanalist]

@tod evans is Ozarkian.

Oops

[A Son of Liberty]

@tod evans is Ozarkian.

Yeah that sounds right. I know of one member who's from this part of the world (Greene County, PA, to be specific), who I can't think of his username at the moment. Oh, I believe @osan is from southern West Virginia if I recall correctly, which reasonably lines up with me, geographically.

There's momentum for this sort of thing in the world today. The Trumpist movement is indicative, but also Brexit, as well as the business in Hong Kong if I read it correctly.

It has legs, if people are willing to run on them.

[tod evans]

@tod evans is Ozarkian.

Ozarks-n-Appalachians have very similar folk and could most likely agree on matters.

There's not a lot of flatlanders between the clans but the big muddy would/could prove a formidable barrier to trade if there was trouble..

I am however quite glad that they're a buffer between the coastal swarms and our little slice of Heaven...

[Occam's Banana]

I don't think most here are against it, although I'm sure there is a significant percentage that are. As far as why it isn't the focus, probably just the daily distraction of left vs right.

We "early adopters" will probably just have to wait for the idea to mature and for all the dead-end options (like taking over the system or reforming it from within) are checked off ... (while hoping that there will still be enough time left before the feds et al. go "full retard fascist/socialist" ...)

[Origanalist]

We "early adopters" will probably just have to wait for the idea to mature and for all the dead-end options (like taking over the system or reforming it from within) are checked off ... (while hoping that there will still be enough time left before the feds et al. go "full retard fascist/socialist" ...)

[A Son of Liberty]

We "early adopters" will probably just have to wait for the idea to mature and for all the dead-end options (like taking over the system or reforming it from within) are checked off ... (while hoping that there will still be enough time left before the feds et al. go "full retard fascist/socialist" ...)

You're probably correct. That said I wonder if this may not be just the time in history for us?

[Anti Globalist]

I'd love it if secession were to happen but the reality is its not going to happen. Even if it did, the current president, regardless if its Trump or not, they're not going to sit there and let a group of states leave.

[Occam's Banana]

I'd love it if secession were to happen but the reality is its not going to happen. Even if it did, the current president, regardless if its Trump or not, they're not going to sit there and let a group of states leave.

Maybe, maybe not. There will be no way to know for sure unless and until it actually happens.

But the mere desire to refuse to allow it would not be sufficient. It would depend on whether "they" had the political wherewithal to enforce such a refusal, and the political will to accept what that enforcement would entail. (And for the same reason, it is also not simply a matter of "rock beats scissors" ...)

[A Son of Liberty]

Maybe, maybe not. There will be no way to know for sure unless and until it actually happens.

But the mere desire to refuse to allow it would not be sufficient. It would depend on whether "they" had the political wherewithal to enforce such a refusal, and the political will to accept what that enforcement would entail. (And for the same reason, it is also not simply a matter of "rock beats scissors" ...)

YES.

Currently in the world, we see Great Britain dissolving itself from the EU; we see people in Hong Kong beautifully, nobly, resisting the rule of PRC (a story which has received little relevant media coverage among the major US media outlets, if I understand correctly).

There is an oeuvre at play in the world today, I think. There is a symphony of self-determination, and I think it will have been the saddest of missed opportunities if we, the so-called liberty movement, in no less a place than America, fail to seize upon it.

[A Son of Liberty]

I'd love it if secession were to happen but the reality is its not going to happen. Even if it did, the current president, regardless if its Trump or not, they're not going to sit there and let a group of states leave.

Congrats - you've just invented the perpetual motion machine.

[TheTexan]

I'm against secession because I think this country can be fixed.

[Occam's Banana]

I'm against secession because I think this country can be fixed.

You are a Great American. We mere mortals can but hopelessly aspire to such lofty station.

[Zippyjuan]

Help me understand why the focus of this movement hasn't become secessionism.

This is currently a country of 330 million people and growing every day, 4 million square miles of land mass, 6 time zones, 3,000 miles east to west, temperate zones to deserts, mountains to plains, densely populated areas like New York and Los Angeles to places like Wyoming, where off the top of my head I think prong-horn outnumber human beings something like 4-to-1... a multi-cultural population that varies from recent African immigrants to indigenous peoples to "settlers" who can trace their lineage back over 4 centuries within a single county and almost literally everything in between... Montanans have more in common with people from Saskatchewan than people in Florida. People in southern California have more in common with people in northern Mexico than people in Missouri.

The idea that this "country" should focus so intensely on a central government in Washington, D.C., let alone on the so-called "local" governments within their own "states" is a $#@!ing lunacy. When you honestly take a step back and consider what it is that we're discussing when it comes to national politics, if you don't come to the conclusion that the whole goddamned business is completely bonkers, you're missing something.

Ultimately, as an anti-statist, my goal is micro-secession, but I'd really like someone to explain to me what the legitimate argument is against breaking this monolith up into more reasonable management districts that make considerably more sense than this untenable mass.

How small do you want to draw the lines? Should city people be divided from rural people? They tend to be very different. What about neighborhoods within cities? They can be quite different. What about within the neighborhood? You probably have people who live near you who are not exactly like you.

[tod evans]

Should city people be divided from rural people? They tend to be very different.

It'd be less lethal for all involved

What about neighborhoods within cities? They can be quite different. What about within the neighborhood? You probably have people who live near you who are not exactly like you.

This is completely up to the cities, they created the neighborhoods and all of the associated problems.

[A Son of Liberty]

How small do you want to draw the lines? Should city people be divided from rural people? They tend to be very different. What about neighborhoods within cities? They can be quite different. What about within the neighborhood? You probably have people who live near you who are not exactly like you.

my goal is micro-secession

Down to the individual.

[CCTelander]

Down to the individual.

"You must spread some Reputation around..."

[Suzanimal]

It should be at this point but I imagine the reason it’s not a more popular idea is because it didn’t work out so great the last time it was attempted. They won’t just let folks peacefully secede and I know I couldn’t beat them in a real fight.

Down to the individual.

You sound like Rothbard

[TheTexan]

It should be at this point but I imagine the reason it’s not a more popular idea is because it didn’t work out so great the last time it was attempted.

If secession happens, Zombie Lincoln will rise from the grave and slaughter all who oppose the perpetual union

[Swordsmyth]

If secession happens, Zombie Lincoln will rise from the grave and slaughter all who oppose the perpetual union

[A Son of Liberty]

You sound like Rothbard

Can't think of any higher praise on this forum. Thanks!

[Suzanimal]

Can't think of any higher praise on this forum. Thanks!

I t was meant that way - sorry I’m posting from me damn phone and I keep hitting the wrong button

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

It's too soon. I think secession is going to become very popular within the next century, possibly within the next couple of decades, but right now it's still the domain of weirdos and ideologues. That's all there is to it, really.