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Thread: Secession

  1. #61
    What mad ideas, you are the one that believe in independence, good bye to Nevada, the naughty state with Western Shoshone nation becoming independent, so that is two nations in US borders. Then the South east, Louisiana, Mississippi, these places would not benefit from Independence.

    Then Vermont, Rhode Island, they wouldn't either.

    Arizona, and Tohono nation, so declaring from Mexico and Arizona, so issues with Mexico.



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  3. #62
    Bump.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  4. #63
    Funny, nobody wanted to actually imagine the new reality of the idea of independence. For one state, it is a nice idea, but if it creates divisions that has a serious affect on the world order of peace, then this is a poor idea.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    Funny, nobody wanted to actually imagine the new reality of the idea of independence. For one state, it is a nice idea, but if it creates divisions that has a serious affect on the world order of peace, then this is a poor idea.
    What world peace? You're old enough to remember world peace?

    The U.S. govermnent trying to exhort the members of the military to attack their own home towns would cause the whole world to breathe a huge sigh of relief.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.



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  7. #65
    No, for America's faults, America keeps our world intact. When I vouched for Paul years ago when he ran for office, I didn't see the bigger picture. Just like in 2011, the crowd member said, "no president!" On when did any empire withdraw from the world stage in history.

    Ireland for example, needs a peaceful world, and who does it look to? America? The EU, even though the EU has no real military, may be someday it will. Who else? How does Ireland insulate itself from the world economy problems, the primary supply of crude is protected by America. A country like that can't right the wrongs of the world, or deal with unstable governments.

    So it is either US, or EU or China, or India one day.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    No, for America's faults, America keeps our world intact. When I vouched for Paul years ago when he ran for office, I didn't see the bigger picture. Just like in 2011, the crowd member said, "no president!" On when did any empire withdraw from the world stage in history.

    Ireland for example, needs a peaceful world, and who does it look to? America? The EU, even though the EU has no real military, may be someday it will. Who else? How does Ireland insulate itself from the world economy problems, the primary supply of crude is protected by America. A country like that can't right the wrongs of the world, or deal with unstable governments.

    So it is either US, or EU or China, or India one day.
    You are a fool who thinks his assertions are facts and that the world can't function as it did for all of history.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #67
    I do not think there's a single issue that will ever spark a serious succession movement. I do think that splintering could happen only if a lasting economic hardship hits. People are crazier when they're hungry.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are a fool who thinks his assertions are facts and that the world can't function as it did for all of history.
    No it is true, Ireland has benefited from the British empire's later years to America's, and then the EU. Small nations depend on the bigger powers to keep economies going.

    Ireland has no capability to keep the sea lanes going or the crude oil flowing. That is what you quickly forget, you aren't someone that likes facts, only blind faith.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    No it is true, Ireland has benefited from the British empire's later years to America's, and then the EU. Small nations depend on the bigger powers to keep economies going.

    Ireland has no capability to keep the sea lanes going or the crude oil flowing. That is what you quickly forget, you aren't someone that likes facts, only blind faith.
    The world can, did and would deal with those problems without world government or socialism.

    You can't think, you only repeat what you are told to believe.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #70
    No they can't. They didn't even have a navy functioning fifty years ago.

    Iceland is a little more prepared due to their location. But they depend on Canada and America for defense, and a peaceful world.

    There is no substitute for keeping the sea lanes, like Carter, Reagan did with the US navy.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The world can, did and would deal with those problems without world government or socialism.

    You can't think, you only repeat what you are told to believe.
    Carter said we aren't a small republic, and he was correct. People were talking like you or Paul decades ago about having less of a role in the world. The world is interconnected. Just declaration of war clause was used two centuries ago before crude oil, it is anachronistic.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    No they can't. They didn't even have a navy functioning fifty years ago.

    Iceland is a little more prepared due to their location. But they depend on Canada and America for defense, and a peaceful world.

    There is no substitute for keeping the sea lanes, like Carter, Reagan did with the US navy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    Carter said we aren't a small republic, and he was correct. People were talking like you or Paul decades ago about having less of a role in the world. The world is interconnected. Just declaration of war clause was used two centuries ago before crude oil, it is anachronistic.
    The world can deal with those problems without world government, it always has.

    I thought you claimed to be English?

    Carter said we aren't a small republic
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #73
    Yes I live in England. But that is my point, even the Royal Navy couldn't do what America does. May be a coalition like in 1990.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I do not think there's a single issue that will ever spark a serious succession movement. I do think that splintering could happen only if a lasting economic hardship hits. People are crazier when they're hungry.
    2nd Amendment - taking peoples guns.

    I think a first step in a more realistic scenario would be for a group of states to form an alliance against federal government power in certain areas. Remain part of the union but deny the federal governments power under the alliance and do so on Constitutional grounds. For example the Constitution is pretty clear, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

    The next step the alliance would also need to reject the power of the Supreme Court for their own Supreme Court. Otherwise activist liberal judges would just continue to overrule their power.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I think a first step in a more realistic scenario would be for a group of states to form an alliance against federal government power in certain areas. Remain part of the union but deny the federal governments power under the alliance and do so on Constitutional grounds.
    The Constitution prohibits a State from entering into any agreement or compact with another State without the consent of Congress (Art. I, Sec. 10, Clause 3).

    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The next step the alliance would also need to reject the power of the Supreme Court for their own Supreme Court.
    Ignoring U.S. Supreme Court decisions didn't work following the 1954 school desegregation case, and there's no reason to think it would work today.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  19. #76
    Bunch of people in here who seem to be able to foretell the future. Kinda surprising that you're posting on an internet backwater forum given how rich you must obviously be.

    The point in the OP was that there is no clear lane for the Liberty Movement in the current US/global political traffic pattern. Secessionism is one clear and unoccupied area where we could stake our flag.

    The fact is, it will come. Sure as God made little green apples, it will come. If we're occupying the space when the moment arrives, we'll have the upper hand.

    Think about that.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The Constitution prohibits a State from entering into any agreement or compact with another State without the consent of Congress (Art. I, Sec. 10, Clause 3).
    It needn't be a formal agreement.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Ignoring U.S. Supreme Court decisions didn't work following the 1954 school desegregation case, and there's no reason to think it would work today.
    It could have worked then and it could work now.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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