Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 62

Thread: Secession

  1. #31
    I would also just like to take a moment to remind all of you, that advocating for secession without getting permission from Congress is a blatant violation of the Smith Act, and will be reported as such to the FBI.

    Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    If you want to secede you should study past secessions.
    You will find that you will need your people in positions of power and influence, that means you need to succeed at conventional politics first at one or more levels of government, you will also find that you must secede a large enough territory that is able to defend itself.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 09-02-2019 at 09:30 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If you want to secede you should study past secessions.
    You will find that you will need your people in positions of power and influence, that means you need to succeed at conventional politics first at on or more levels of government, you will also find that you must secede a large enough territory that is able to defend itself.
    It also takes a citizenry that isn't 90% pansies.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  6. #34
    It should be at this point but I imagine the reason itís not a more popular idea is because it didnít work out so great the last time it was attempted. They wonít just let folks peacefully secede and I know I couldnít beat them in a real fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Down to the individual.
    You sound like Rothbard
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    It should be at this point but I imagine the reason it’s not a more popular idea is because it didn’t work out so great the last time it was attempted.
    If secession happens, Zombie Lincoln will rise from the grave and slaughter all who oppose the perpetual union

    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    If secession happens, Zombie Lincoln will rise from the grave and slaughter all who oppose the perpetual union

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It's not politically viable at this time, for better or worse.


    Also the country isn't geographically divided like it used to be. Many regional differences have eroded. It's not north vs south or east vs west as much as it is urban vs non-urban.
    I'm not suggesting an east/west, north/south secession. That was as much a bastardization as the union itself, or nearly so anyway. I'm suggesting that there are regions within the geography of the US wherein the interests of the local population broadly align. Vast stretches of the American west, for example; Appalachia, as I mentioned; New England, of course.

    When you take a step back from US national politics and take a clear-eyed look, it's an absolute absurdity: generally speaking two political factions vying for control to - openly - assert their will upon a nation of 330 million human beings stretched across a varied landscape covering 4 million square miles. That's freaking asinine... Of course we know what the original idea was - that the Federal government would only handle the 18 enumerated powers, etc., etc. Welp, that didn't work, and that cat ain't going back in the bag, because there will always be the threat of the next election overturning all of the quote-unquote progress that was made. This is a death spiral, an absolute dead end. So again, as I see it what this movement should focus on is breaking the country up into more reasonable districts wherein the interests of the people more closely align.
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 09-03-2019 at 04:13 AM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    You sound like Rothbard


    Can't think of any higher praise on this forum. Thanks!

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to A Son of Liberty again.



    The rep should go to you, sir. The post was inspired by one of your recent posts if I recall correctly. Regardless:

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    I'm not suggesting an east/west, north/south secession. That was as much a bastardization as the union itself, or nearly so anyway. I'm suggesting that there are regions within the geography of the US wherein the interests of the local population broadly align. Vast stretches of the American west, for example; Appalachia, as I mentioned; New England, of course.

    When you take a step back from US national politics and take a clear-eyed look, it's an absolute absurdity: generally speaking two political factions vying for control to - openly - assert their will upon a nation of 330 million human beings stretched across a varied landscape covering 4 million square miles. That's freaking asinine... Of course we know what the original idea was - that the Federal government would only handle the 18 enumerated powers, etc., etc. Welp, that didn't work, and that cat ain't going back in the bag, because there will always be the threat of the next election overturning all of the quote-unquote progress that was made. This is a death spiral, an absolute dead end. So again, as I see it what this movement should focus on is breaking the country up into more reasonable districts wherein the interests of the people more closely align.
    There is a lot more tangible low hanging fruit that can be much easier accomplished. There are not enough angry people yet to event warrant serious discussion about secession. We're a long ways from it. Now if there is a currency collapse or the feds over play their hand, or another unpopular war, or something like that, then it gets us closer to people being angry enough to act. But we are a loooooong way from any of that. Things simply are not intolerable enough for most people and likely won't be for the foreseeable future.

    But we can do things like pass Constitutional Carry, stop local and state tax hikes, repeal gun laws, etc in most places without too much relative effort. That's where I put my energy.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    The rep should go to you, sir. The post was inspired by one of your recent posts if I recall correctly. Regardless:
    It was meant that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post


    Can't think of any higher praise on this forum. Thanks!
    I t was meant that way - sorry I’m posting from me damn phone and I keep hitting the wrong button
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    There is a lot more tangible low hanging fruit that can be much easier accomplished. There are not enough angry people yet to event warrant serious discussion about secession. We're a long ways from it. Now if there is a currency collapse or the feds over play their hand, or another unpopular war, or something like that, then it gets us closer to people being angry enough to act. But we are a loooooong way from any of that. Things simply are not intolerable enough for most people and likely won't be for the foreseeable future.

    But we can do things like pass Constitutional Carry, stop local and state tax hikes, repeal gun laws, etc in most places without too much relative effort. That's where I put my energy.
    All due respect, Collins, but this seems extraordinarily oblivious of the advancement of the statist agenda... what advancements in liberty within the framework of the USG can you point us to over the course of the past 75 years or so that would suggest this is a viable avenue? Of course I understand that secessionist movements have little to point to in terms of successes on their own, but I'd suggest that has more to do with the fact that whatever momentum there's been toward that end has always been sapped by the likes of the Republican party constantly promising smaller Federal government, yet always giving us more and more and more.

    What if people started regularly and directly pointing the electorate TOWARD the DoI, appealing to the PRINCIPLES of the Revolution, and started advocating on behalf of TRUE liberty?

    Look I get what you're saying, I just think it's BS. I think it's just an imperceptibly slower circling of the same drain.

    Going off of memory here, so forgive me if I misquote: "That when governments become destructive of that end, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it".

    You really don't think we could get a quarter of Americans to get behind that slogan? If we can't, there's no point anyway. All is lost.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    All due respect, Collins, but this seems extraordinarily oblivious of the advancement of the statist agenda... what advancements in liberty within the framework of the USG can you point us to over the course of the past 75 years or so that would suggest this is a viable avenue? Of course I understand that secessionist movements have little to point to in terms of successes on their own, but I'd suggest that has more to do with the fact that whatever momentum there's been toward that end has always been sapped by the likes of the Republican party constantly promising smaller Federal government, yet always giving us more and more and more.

    What if people started regularly and directly pointing the electorate TOWARD the DoI, appealing to the PRINCIPLES of the Revolution, and started advocating on behalf of TRUE liberty?

    Look I get what you're saying, I just think it's BS. I think it's just an imperceptibly slower circling of the same drain.

    Going off of memory here, so forgive me if I misquote: "That when governments become destructive of that end, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it".

    You really don't think we could get a quarter of Americans to get behind that slogan? If we can't, there's no point anyway. All is lost.
    I think the federal government is a complete lost cause. Even if we had a dozen Thomas Massie's in Congress we would only be able to slow down the tyranny, not actually reverse it. Whenever they can print their own money it is practically impossible to combat that kind of machine.

    There have been some successes on the federal level, mostly in terms of the 1st Amendment and the dubious 14th Amendment. But by and large, I agree, the federal government is not fixable. At some point it will collapse due to its own weight... although that could be decades maybe even a century or two. Who knows?


    But I do know for a fact that most state legislatures and many municipal governments are much easier controlled or steered on specific issues. We have indeed seen a large growth in firearms freedom over the last two decades for example.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    We have indeed seen a large growth in firearms freedom over the last two decades for example.
    Compared to what?

    Seems I recall much more "firearms freedom" as recently as 35 years ago.

    Things might be changing back a little bit but to make the assertion that there's more "firearms freedom" sounds foolish, or are you trying to push an agenda?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Compared to what?

    Seems I recall much more "firearms freedom" as recently as 35 years ago.

    Things might be changing back a little bit but to make the assertion that there's more "firearms freedom" sounds foolish, or are you trying to push an agenda?
    Constitutional Carry is becoming widespread:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Constitutional Carry is becoming widespread:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_carry
    Wasn't an issue to be legislated 35 years ago, try again.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Wasn't an issue to be legislated 35 years ago, try again.
    WRONG.

    There have been laws banning concealed carry with or without a permit since the late 1800's in various jurisdictions.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I think the federal government is a complete lost cause. Even if we had a dozen Thomas Massie's in Congress we would only be able to slow down the tyranny, not actually reverse it. Whenever they can print their own money it is practically impossible to combat that kind of machine.

    There have been some successes on the federal level, mostly in terms of the 1st Amendment and the dubious 14th Amendment. But by and large, I agree, the federal government is not fixable. At some point it will collapse due to its own weight... although that could be decades maybe even a century or two. Who knows?


    But I do know for a fact that most state legislatures and many municipal governments are much easier controlled or steered on specific issues. We have indeed seen a large growth in firearms freedom over the last two decades for example.
    If the Federal Government is a lost cause, and if the states are areas of focus... why wouldn't an effort be worthwhile to get them to focus on secession?

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    It also takes a citizenry that isn't 90% pansies.
    /thread
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    If the Federal Government is a lost cause, and if the states are areas of focus... why wouldn't an effort be worthwhile to get them to focus on secession?
    If you have ever spent any time around a legislature then you would know exactly how far away we are from that even being discussed, much less possible.

    During Obama there was some talk about it, but nothing serious, unfortunately. Things like the Firearms Freedom Acts are a very small step in the right direction.

    The first step is to begin to nullify unconstitutional federal laws within the state boundaries. But that is like moving a mountain to accomplish.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Yeah that sounds right. I know of one member who's from this part of the world (Greene County, PA, to be specific), who I can't think of his username at the moment. Oh, I believe @osan is from southern West Virginia if I recall correctly, which reasonably lines up with me, geographically.

    There's momentum for this sort of thing in the world today. The Trumpist movement is indicative, but also Brexit, as well as the business in Hong Kong if I read it correctly.

    It has legs, if people are willing to run on them.
    WV, aye captain.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Help me understand why the focus of this movement hasn't become secessionism.
    Methinks that, all big talk of "freedom" notwithstanding, most people are terrified of actual real-deal, no screwing around liberty. They want all the perceived benefits of what they view as freedom while recoiling with intense and reflexive violence when confronted with the costs. Such people, as represented by the Meaner, have no real understanding of the concept and their blood boils at the mere suggestion of it. They actually think that freedom is free of cost. That is because they are corrupted and willful idiots.

    Ultimately, as an anti-statist, my goal is micro-secession, but I'd really like someone to explain to me what the legitimate argument is against breaking this monolith up into more reasonable management districts that make considerably more sense than this untenable mass.
    The United States is a club of sorts, politically speaking. If you want to be in the club (as a state), you have to follow certain rules such as not infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.

    In a more perfect humanity, I would have no problem with this aspect of the American political architecture. It makes strong sense. But as we can all see, humans trend to corruption, which has saddled us with drug laws and so forth, which completely disparages and destroys the value of what this nation is SUPPOSED to be: a voluntary confederation of individual and disparate nations who have come together under an umbrella of common principles that speak to the freedom of men and the strict and short-leash limitation of so-called "government".

    This confederation is a good thing, in principle. It is, in fact, miraculous. Sadly, we Americans have dishonored this architecture, as well as ourselves and all that is morally praiseworthy from virtually the first days of the republic, the Whiskey Rebellion providing sufficient and incontrovertible proof that tyranny immediately took hold in the land of the free. The experiment failed IMMEDIATELY. Why? Because humans. I am sad to say that there is little to recommend us.

    As I have mentioned many times before, nothing short of a reset event is likely to correct the deeply diseased mental positions of the vast majority of Americans. We were given the greatest opportunity of perhaps all recorded human history to free ourselves from the sorts of servitude that bound all civil societies since at least the time of Sumer and we squandered it immediately. The bottom line is that, contrary to Ron Paul's words that freedom is popular, it is clearly and unmistakably hated with a bitterness that cannot be given a number by all but a tiny handful of us.

    Therefore, the best for which we can hope at this time, our lifetimes, is to make of this land the least horror possible.

    The only other possibility I see, and it's a damned thin slice in terms of plausibility, would be if SCOTUS were to very quietly rule in favor of the notion that all men are born free and possessing of natural rights, which would leave the door ajar for select individuals to make their exit from the plantation in favor of the freedoms that scare the color from the hides of the Meaner. We could then have essentially two societies: those who timidly accede to the whims of the state because they are cowardly miscreants who live in deep FAIL, and those who embrace the beauty and the terror of real freedom - the "animating contest". The latter would likely always comprise some tiny proportion, perhaps half of a percent or less, and they would be despised by the rest, but I believe it could be made workable.

    Imagine that - a nation where those who chose real freedom could actually live in accord with the principles of Proper Human Relations without having to engage in excessive worry for their very lives.

    ...perchance to dream.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The experiment failed IMMEDIATELY. Why? Because humans. I am sad to say that there is little to recommend us.
    Fundamentally I agree with you, but I'm not entirely ready to give up the ground:

    The capacity for it ('it' being the capability to comprehend freedom) clearly exists; many of us here are the Proof of that Fact.

    We are human beings. Human beings are built with essentially the same Operating System, strengths and weaknesses in this or that area aside.

    Speaking for myself as a former pro-statist and having matriculated within statist society I was at one point even a socialist, all it took was exposure to the Truth. Once the concept was laid out to me, I couldn't refute the logic, and so I was left with no other choice than to adopt the position.

    Now I'm one who is inclined toward logic. Intellectually I'm not built to ignore that framework, and once I realize I cannot counter it, as I said I'm left with no choice but to adopt it. But some are built to ignore logic. Some - probably many... and perhaps even most - have a weakness in their OS in the area of logic, and are thus susceptible to the Tune of the Piper. And others have a weakness in their OS in the area of humility, who are inclined to become the Piper. Thus, our current conundrum.

    But I do believe that the OS installed within each of us contains the coding, whether it is fundamental to this or that individual notwithstanding, I believe that each of us are born with the underlying desire to be free. The trick is to find the key which unlocks that section of code.

    So as I stated at the start, I agree with you that there is little to recommend us... but I think that 'little' bit is the key.

    Whether it is worth the investment is the question We must ask ourselves. Because there is no doubt that the task is arduous, and that in all likelihood it takes more time than a human's lifetime... probably many lifetimes... but what more valuable investment is there than that? What better thing is there to be than a drop in the rain that eventually breaks the dam, even if we won't live to see it?



    I've never expected to see freedom in my lifetime. My principle aim has been to spread the Idea to as many people as I can while my lungs draw air. I've never resisted the urge to try to turn a mind when I've encountered one that might be open to it.

  29. #55
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Help me understand why the focus of this movement hasn't become secessionism.

    This is currently a country of 330 million people and growing every day, 4 million square miles of land mass, 6 time zones, 3,000 miles east to west, temperate zones to deserts, mountains to plains, densely populated areas like New York and Los Angeles to places like Wyoming, where off the top of my head I think prong-horn outnumber human beings something like 4-to-1... a multi-cultural population that varies from recent African immigrants to indigenous peoples to "settlers" who can trace their lineage back over 4 centuries within a single county and almost literally everything in between... Montanans have more in common with people from Saskatchewan than people in Florida. People in southern California have more in common with people in northern Mexico than people in Missouri.

    The idea that this "country" should focus so intensely on a central government in Washington, D.C., let alone on the so-called "local" governments within their own "states" is a $#@!ing lunacy. When you honestly take a step back and consider what it is that we're discussing when it comes to national politics, if you don't come to the conclusion that the whole goddamned business is completely bonkers, you're missing something.

    Ultimately, as an anti-statist, my goal is micro-secession, but I'd really like someone to explain to me what the legitimate argument is against breaking this monolith up into more reasonable management districts that make considerably more sense than this untenable mass.
    Adam Kokesh is running for the Libertarian platform with a platform of localization. That's not exactly the same, but it's more marketable.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    It's too soon. I think secession is going to become very popular within the next century, possibly within the next couple of decades, but right now it's still the domain of weirdos and ideologues. That's all there is to it, really.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Fundamentally I agree with you, but I'm not entirely ready to give up the ground:
    I understand. Neither have I given up. I am stubborn that way. But the statistical reality is grim, I believe you may agree.

    The capacity for it ('it' being the capability to comprehend freedom) clearly exists; many of us here are the Proof of that Fact.
    Once again, I am on board. We ALL have that capacity, save perhaps those with brain lesions... like the anitfa, BLM crowds... and Democrats, har har har...

    Speaking for myself as a former pro-statist and having matriculated within statist society I was at one point even a socialist, all it took was exposure to the Truth. Once the concept was laid out to me, I couldn't refute the logic, and so I was left with no other choice than to adopt the position.

    Now I'm one who is inclined toward logic. Intellectually I'm not built to ignore that framework, and once I realize I cannot counter it, as I said I'm left with no choice but to adopt it.
    That is a mark of honesty. BLM etc. are left with the same choice and they choose wrong.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  34. #59
    No secession won't be popular, it is a fringe movement, that will have long term and serious impact to the world. It won't happen.

    The only error in American history was it being fifty states. But that is history. As for Native countries in time, they will either be states or independent nations.

    Global problems require nations to work together, having regional or independent states wouldn't work when the world has all these problems, it is irrelevant, when drought, flooding destroy areas.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    No secession won't be popular, it is a fringe movement, that will have long term and serious impact to the world. It won't happen.

    The only error in American history was it being fifty states. But that is history. As for Native countries in time, they will either be states or independent nations.

    Global problems require nations to work together, having regional or independent states wouldn't work when the world has all these problems, it is irrelevant, when drought, flooding destroy areas.
    The pendulum swings back and forth, your mad schemes will give way to division.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Secession and the Law
    By Ronin Truth in forum Political Philosophy & Government Policy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-30-2014, 10:10 AM
  2. Secession and the Law -- Oppose Secession? Youíre a statist.
    By Ronin Truth in forum Individual Rights Violations: Case Studies
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-04-2014, 11:09 AM
  3. On Secession...
    By tonesforjonesbones in forum U.S. Constitution
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-23-2009, 04:13 PM
  4. secession
    By shuffleproshaq in forum North Dakota
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-16-2008, 12:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •