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Thread: Is Vaping Really Dangerous or Is This Just More Fake News?

  1. #31
    I think if the "flavoring" is actually a pharmaceutical or food grade flavoring and not a bunch of chemicals used to make it smell like grape or tutti fruity or whatever it should be safe.

    I am suspicious that so many lung problems have occurred related to vaping in such a short period of time.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The seen:




    The unseen:

    *People (and children) who stop vaping and picking up smoking cigarettes instead
    What makes the fake news about cigarettes less fake than the fake news about vaping?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    What makes the fake news about cigarettes less fake than the fake news about vaping?
    If you smoke organic cigarettes without any chemicals, I think those would be relatively safe. But I think vaping would still be quite a bit safer. The worst part of cigarettes is all of the added chemicals and the polonium in the phosphorus fertilizers that they use on commercial tobacco.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If you smoke organic cigarettes without any chemicals, I think those would be relatively safe. But I think vaping would still be quite a bit safer. The worst part of cigarettes is all of the added chemicals and the polonium in the phosphorus fertilizers that they use on commercial tobacco.
    You didn't answer the question.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You didn't answer the question.
    What makes it less fake is that smoke has carcinogens and smoking is not the best delivery method for tobacco or cannabis. Vaporizing is a superior delivery method from a health standpoint. But they are both fake news to a large extent.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #36
    Whenever I see a Vaping shop or a CBD/Pot shops, what comes to mind is; Seedy, probably
    just me , but that's how I see them.

    Still, I don't want to see the gobt making our decisions for us, but they will, they've got to
    make everything illegal, so they can give us permission to do 'it' and tax that sht out of 'it' .

    The govt is always trying to instill in our minds that our God Given Rights don't exist , that our rights
    are granted us by government.

  9. #37
    Approximately 480,000 people a year die from cigarette smoking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Not even close...these numbers are inflated to the point of fantasy.

    A 90 year old man dies from a broken hip, but because he smoked during WW2, it's now a smoking related fatality.

    They cook these numbers just like they cook "drunk driving" numbers.
    This is probably what they meant to say:

    Doctors kill 400,000 per year.

  10. #38
    Let's say vaping is dangerous. So what? Personal choice. The end.

    I am certain the numbers are inflated though. They do the same thing with cigars. I have never heard of anyone who got lung cancer from smoking cigars, yet if you Google cigars and health risks you will get all sorts of things saying how dangerous they are. I have even seen articles saying they are worse than cigarettes. But if you actually look at the independent evidence that the FDA published, if you smoke fewer than five cigars a day (which is a lot) your risk of most illnesses is barely higher than someone who doesn't smoke at all.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What makes it less fake is that smoke has carcinogens and smoking is not the best delivery method for tobacco or cannabis. Vaporizing is a superior delivery method from a health standpoint. But they are both fake news to a large extent.
    Besides your opinion, what makes antifreeze healthier than smoke?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Besides your opinion, what makes antifreeze healthier than smoke?
    You mean propylene glycol that is in almost every processed food and cosmetic item that is for sale in almost every store?

    Science, I guess?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  14. #41

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Let's say vaping is dangerous. So what? Personal choice. The end.

    I am certain the numbers are inflated though. They do the same thing with cigars. I have never heard of anyone who got lung cancer from smoking cigars, yet if you Google cigars and health risks you will get all sorts of things saying how dangerous they are. I have even seen articles saying they are worse than cigarettes. But if you actually look at the independent evidence that the FDA published, if you smoke fewer than five cigars a day (which is a lot) your risk of most illnesses is barely higher than someone who doesn't smoke at all.
    That's the thing, historically the numbers haven't been inflated at all that I'm aware. Almost nobody hospitalized, and certainly nobody dying after 14 years of vaping. The all of a sudden in a month and a half, you have 6 deaths and hundreds of hospitalizations.

    Like I said before, I read an article yesterday that said at least 80% of these incidents are from THC vaping - but it's not the THC doing it, it is an ingredient called vitamine E acetate, or Vitamin E oil. It is becoming popular as a thickening agent, especially in black market THC pens, so they can dilute the THC with more terps and then thicken it with vitamin E oil.

    This article says there are 8 types of vitamin E oil, and SOME of them are dangerous if vaporized, or if not processed properly:

    https://www.leafly.com/news/health/v...-oil-explained

    Like essential oils used in some flavoring for e-cigs, vitamin E oil must be distilled. If not properly distilled, like essential oils, this can cause problems if people vape it.

    The answer is legalize it, and let people make vape pens with ingredients on them, people can get them tested and verified, all this can happen in the free market with legalization.

    Vaping high quality cannabis concentrates and high quality ecig juice should not lead to any health problems. The UK has found that vaping is about 98% safer than smoking cigarettes.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Besides your opinion, what makes antifreeze healthier than smoke?
    It's about being inhaled vs something that is topical.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You mean propylene glycol that is in almost every processed food and cosmetic item that is for sale in almost every store?

    Science, I guess?
    Please vape some cosmetics and let me know how that works out for you.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Please vape some cosmetics and let me know how that works out for you.
    How about some evidence that PG is not good to vape? People have been vaping it for 13 years, no problems.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    How about some evidence that PG is not good to vape? People have been vaping it for 13 years, no problems.
    I don't particularly care either way.

    I continue to be amazed at how you simultaneously believe and disbelieve the news according to whether it says what you want to hear.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I believe the culprit is the propylene glycol. Vegetable glycerin is not a problem with or without nicotine. However, I read studies of PG/VG 50/50 mix with or without nicotine has caused pulmonary problems in rat studies.
    I can imagine some idiot thinking 'ethylene glycol' is the same thing as 'propylene glycol' and then using it to vape.
    I can also imagine the results wouldn't be so pretty either.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Whenever I see a Vaping shop or a CBD/Pot shops, what comes to mind is; Seedy, probably
    just me , but that's how I see them.

    Still, I don't want to see the gobt making our decisions for us, but they will, they've got to
    make everything illegal, so they can give us permission to do 'it' and tax that sht out of 'it' .

    The govt is always trying to instill in our minds that our God Given Rights don't exist , that our rights
    are granted us by government.

    Yea one day we will probably need a prescription to by a carrot.



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  23. #49
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    Yea one day we will probably need a prescription to by a carrot.
    So true.....

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I can imagine some idiot thinking 'ethylene glycol' is the same thing as 'propylene glycol' and then using it to vape.
    I can also imagine the results wouldn't be so pretty either.
    Or polypropylene glycol.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #52
    Leaked papers: WHO to intensify its pointless and destructive war against innovation - expect many dead

    This week there will be a meeting of tobacco regulators under auspices of the FDA-funded WHO Global Tobacco Regulators’ Forum (GTRF) in the Netherlands and part of the preparation for FCTC COP-9, which will be held in 2020, also the Netherlands. Two leaked papers from WHO’s Eastern Mediterranean Regional Office (EMRO) suggest that WHO is building up to an attempt to treat reduced risk products no differently to cigarettes or with even greater hostility.

    EMRO Paper on Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems
    EMRO Paper on Heated Tobacco Products

    I do not have time for a line by line critique of these wretched documents, and to be honest, none is needed. There are common themes that describe the contents sufficiently:

    These products should be banned where possible (something WHO does not advise for cigarettes)
    The manufacturers and supply chain should be treated like the tobacco industry and subject to official pariah status under Article 5.3 of the FCTC
    If they are not banned, ‘strong regulation’ should be applied to these products – at least as stringent as cigarettes.
    So, as a former senior civil servant, I can offer some advice to ‘regulators’ attending the GTRF meeting on how to respond to these papers, and what good policymaking actually looks like.

    Policy rationale. What problem are these policy positions are supposed to address? While WHO says tobacco kills about 8 million per year – these are overwhelmingly deaths caused by smoking – and it is this gruesome toll that justifies the FCTC and control on tobacco. There is no evidence of commercially produced vaping or heated tobacco products killing anyone on any material scale. So what is the policy rationale for intervention? It seems to be that some of these products are produced by the tobacco industry. WHO has never had clarity on its goals: see Who or what is the World Health Organisation at war with (2016)
    Justification of proposals. To what extent does the paper justify any measures it proposes. The answer is: “the papers provide no justification at all for any of the measures proposed“. The measures follow from an undeclared and unjustified policy purpose to create the most hostile regulatory environment possible. If I was still a civil servant and I received these, I would return them with a polite note saying that I think the memorandum justifying the proposals had been lost in the post.
    The threat of unintended consequences.
    more..https://www.clivebates.com/leaked-pa...ect-many-dead/

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    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    I get most of my news from Swordsmyth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is a lie.
    @Brian4Liberty, devil keeps spreading this lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I will report violations of the forum rules to the forum staff when they are egregious enough.

    You should remember that.

  27. #53
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    I get most of my news from Swordsmyth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is a lie.
    @Brian4Liberty, devil keeps spreading this lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I will report violations of the forum rules to the forum staff when they are egregious enough.

    You should remember that.

  28. #54

  29. #55
    Vaping seems like the new agenda. I hear it nonstop on the morning news. 400 people in the US hospitalized. 11 in CT. "Could be related to vaping". "Legislator calling for a ban.".....

    I bet that respiratory illness, pneumonia, Shortness of breath, infection, is a major cause of illness for people that go to the hospital. So if someone goes to the hospital with respiratory illness and they ask, "do you or have you in the past vaped" and you answer yes, Vaping is the problem. I am not pro vape. Let people decide for themselves.

    Where are all these advocates that are concerned for our health when it comes to giving kids mind altering or gene altering drugs?

    So let's suppose some small portion of the population is actually getting sick from vaping. What about children dying from abortions?
    Truth is Fallacy, Fallacy is Evil.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Vaping seems like the new agenda. I hear it nonstop on the morning news. 400 people in the US hospitalized. 11 in CT. "Could be related to vaping". "Legislator calling for a ban.".....

    I bet that respiratory illness, pneumonia, Shortness of breath, infection, is a major cause of illness for people that go to the hospital. So if someone goes to the hospital with respiratory illness and they ask, "do you or have you in the past vaped" and you answer yes, Vaping is the problem. I am not pro vape. Let people decide for themselves.

    Where are all these advocates that are concerned for our health when it comes to giving kids mind altering or gene altering drugs?

    So let's suppose some small portion of the population is actually getting sick from vaping. What about children dying from abortions?

    Agreed, and some people are using these same standards when they try to say "marijuana related DUI fatalities" are "skyrocketing" in Colorado since legalization, when in fact they are simply blaming any marijuana found in the blood as de facto evidence of impairment, which it is not. I often wonder how these types would change their tune if it was legislated that you can be charged with a DUI up to 30 days after having a glass of alcohol...

    Anyway, why aren't they calling for an immediate national ban on cigarettes/tobacco, if they're suddenly concerned with respiratory illnesses and deaths??? I find it fascinating/mind boggling/scary and sad, all at the same time that people can ignore giant dancing pink tranny elephants inside rooms the size of elevators nowadays.
    Last edited by CoastieInColorado; 09-13-2019 at 06:55 AM.



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  32. #57
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ampaign-228143


    The Ridiculous Campaign Against Vaping



    By RICH LOWRY
    September 18, 2019


    Rich Lowry is editor of National Review and a contributing editor with Politico Magazine.


    Never before has a boon to public health been met with such hysteria and ingratitude.

    Vaping is almost all upside in comparison with traditional smoking, a wanton destroyer of health and lives, and yet the nation is in the grips of a panic about e-cigarettes.


    In a rarity for the Trump era, the anti-vaping sentiment jumps traditional geographic and political bounds, running from the Oval Office to San Francisco, from President Donald Trump to his most fervent enemies.

    Trump announced a Food and Drug Administration ban on flavored e-cigarettes last week, while not too long ago the San Francisco Board of Supervisors banned the sale of vaping products at retail outlets and — seemingly more persnickety about this than, say, the use of heroin or public defecation — prohibited their delivery to addresses in the city.

    New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo just imposed a ban on flavored e-cigarettes on an “emergency” basis. “Vaping is dangerous, period,” Cuomo pronounced, citing, like the president, teenage use in particular.

    Actually, there’s little evidence that vaping, as a general matter, is hazardous, and compared with traditional cigarettes it’s a refreshing kale and spinach smoothie after a brisk workout at your favorite Pilates studio.

    Traditional smokers inhale a witch’s brew of carcinogens and carbon monoxide. Smoking accounts for 30 percent of all cancer deaths, and 18 percent of all deaths. The founder of my magazine, William F. Buckley, a longtime cigar smoker who suffered from emphysema at the end of his life and had seen too many family members and colleagues killed by smoking-related illnesses, said in one of his last columns that he’d ban cigarettes if he could.

    A credible estimate is that e-cigarettes, which involve inhaling a nicotine-infused vapor rather than smoke, are about 95 percent less harmful than cigarettes.

    The vaping-related illnesses that have recently garnered headlines and prompted the regulatory actions appear not to implicate standard vaping — despite loose statements to the contrary by politicians and in the press. Early evidence suggests the use of black-market liquids containing THC, the active ingredient in cannabis. It’s possible that an acetate, added to thicken the THC oil, may be the cause. The New York Department of Health found “very high levels of vitamin E acetate in nearly all cannabis-containing samples analyzed.”

    In announcing his flavored vaping ban, Cuomo said that “many of these other products have no control on them whatsoever,” which is by definition true because they are black-market products. We could make the risky products involved illegal, if they weren’t already illegal.

    The problem with the flavor bans — and especially a San Francisco-style outright ban — is its effect on adult e-cigarette users.

    About 11 million adults vape, and some percentage of them are former smokers or would be smoking in the absence of e-cigarettes. A robust study in the United Kingdom found that vaping is twice as effective as other common nicotine replacements in getting smokers to quit. The flavors, according to surveys of users, are a big draw for smokers quitting traditional cigarettes.

    Anything that pushes e-cigarette users back into conventional smoking (now at a new low of 14 percent of adults) is bad for public health. It’s manifestly absurd to ban vaping products and leave cigarettes, including flavored cigarettes, on the market.

    Another source of the current panic is that teen vaping is way up. In 2017, 11.7 percent of teens reported having vaped over the past 30 days; in 2019, 27.5 percent did. There’s nothing to suggest that this increase in vaping is encouraging real teen smoking, which continues to decline and has fallen to less than 6 percent from roughly 35 percent in the late 1990s.

    Everyone would prefer that teens not develop a vaping habit, but this presents nothing close to the health issue presented by combustible cigarettes.
    It’s already illegal, by the way, to sell vaping products to minors.

    By all means, let’s crack down on retailers who are violating this prohibition. But exaggerating the harms of vaping and prohibiting the products is a formula for giving back some of the gains against traditional smoking.

    The libertarian publication Reason points to one study that, insanely, shows more people beginning to consider e-cigarettes as dangerous as regular cigarettes.

    The U.K. has adopted a much more sensible approach that welcomes e-cigarettes as an important harm-reduction measure. According to a report in The Guardian, a couple of National Health Service hospitals have even allowed vape shops to open on their premises.

    That would cause a hue and cry in the United States, where we can’t agree on anything except, apparently, our irrational hostility to a product that is an alternative to a terrible public health scourge.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #58
    Walmart bans e-cigarettes, unofficially marking them mainstream "canceled"

    Aisle 6 is going cold turkey... Walmart officially shut down e-cigarette sales just before the weekend as 8 people have died in connection with using them. The situation for vaping pioneers like Juul has gone from bad to badder to worst since the FDA declared teen vaping an "epidemic" in 2018 — Here's how things accelerated in just the last 3 months:


    • June 25th: San Francisco bans e-cigarettes, saying they get teens hooked to nicotine.
    • September 4th: Michigan becomes the 1st state to ban flavored e-cigarettes because the sound more like Starbursts.
    • September 11th: President Trump says he plans to ban flavored e-cigs.
    • September 18th: China removes Juul vaping products from online stores just days after they launched across the Great Wall.
    • September 19th: India kicks China's moves up a notch and bans all e-cigs.
    • September 20th: Walmart makes its moves.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Not even close...these numbers are inflated to the point of fantasy.

    A 90 year old man dies from a broken hip, but because he smoked during WW2, it's now a smoking related fatality.

    They cook these numbers just like they cook "drunk driving" numbers.
    Thank You.

    bet I could still dive up a Lobster at 62.

    been smoking since 12.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    What makes the fake news about cigarettes less fake than the fake news about vaping?
    It was Fake News when the Nazis started the whole Anti-Smoking Campaign in the 1930s.

    The Smoking Nazis have been winning the war ever since.. It is a twisted "Social Control" experiment...


    There has never been any real science to support the Bull$#@! started in 1930s Germany.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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