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Thread: Florida car-park killing: Gunman guilty as 'stand your ground' defence fails

  1. #1

    Florida car-park killing: Gunman guilty as 'stand your ground' defence fails

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49459855

    A white man who shot and killed an unarmed black man over a parking dispute in the US state of Florida has been found guilty of manslaughter.

    Michael Drejka, 49, shot Markeis McGlockton after a fight broke out over a disabled parking space last year.

    Drejka had cited the state's "stand your ground" law, which has provided a self-defence case for those threatened by deadly force or imminent danger.

    Drejka faces up to 30 years in prison and will be sentenced in October.

    "It's been well over a year since we've been dealing with this matter and I can safely say my family can rest now," McGlockton's father, Michael McGlockton, told reporters.

    Drejka's lawyer, John Trevena, said his client would probably appeal against the verdict, which he called "a mystery".

    The fatal shooting prompted protests and vigils around the state.

    It also fuelled political debates around several polarising issues, including gun rights, race and self-defence.

    Why did the shooting take place?
    The dispute began after Drejka confronted McGlockton's girlfriend, Brittany Jacobs, because she had parked in a disabled parking space with two of her children.

    As their argument escalated, McGlockton, 28, rushed from a nearby shop and pushed Drejka to the ground.

    Drejka - who had a concealed weapons licence - then pulled out a gun and shot McGlockton.

    CCTV footage shows McGlockton rushing back inside the shop while clutching his chest. He was taken to hospital in the city of Clearwater and pronounced dead.

    Drejka claimed to have acted in self-defence, but police faced criticism for the initial decision not to charge him.

    "If he was going to hit me that hard to begin with, a blind side from the get-go, what else should I expect?" he later said in a police interview.

    Drejka also said that his "pet peeve" was illegal parking in disabled spaces, and he admitted to police that he had frequently taken photos of offending cars.

    Court documents revealed he had been accused as an aggressor in four other road incidents between 2012 and 2018. In three of them, prosecutors alleged that he threatened people with a gun.

    What happened in court?
    A six-member jury took about six hours to reach the verdict late on Friday.

    Drejka's lawyers argued McGlockton caused his own death by making Drejka fear for his life.

    "The threat was real," Mr Trevena told the court. "He had the right to stand his ground and no duty to retreat".

    But prosecutors said CCTV footage showed that McGlockton stepped away after the weapon was pointed at him.

    Assistant State Attorney Scott Rosenwasser said it was a "cut and dry" murder by a self-proclaimed "parking lot vigilante".

    "You know what Markeis McGlockton is guilty of?" Mr Rosenwasser asked the court. "He is guilty of loving and trying to protect his family and he died because of it."

    During the proceedings, jurors had asked for more clarity over the state's self-defence law. Judge Joseph Bulone told them that all he could do was reread it to them.

    What is stand your ground and why is it controversial?
    Introduced in Florida in 2005, the law establishes the right for people to defend themselves, with lethal force if necessary, if they believe they are under the threat of bodily harm or death.

    It overturns previous legal principles that dictate a person should retreat before using any force to defend themselves. But the law also states that legal protections cannot be given if the person instigated the altercation.

    All but two of the 50 states have some form of stand-your-ground law. Critics argue it has led to more shootings and has made it harder for some criminals to be prosecuted.

    Opponents also believe that a racial disparity exists in the law's enforcement.

    Three separate academic studies have concluded that white people are more successful at using stand-your-ground defences against black attackers, compared with the same situation vice-versa.

    The law came under intense scrutiny following the fatal shooting of an unarmed teenager in 2012.

    George Zimmerman, a neighbourhood watchman, shot Trayvon Martin, who was walking back from a shop in the city of Sanford. Florida police cited the law after they released Mr Zimmerman without charge on the night of the shooting.

    More than 480,000 people signed a petition calling for him to be prosecuted. He eventually stood trial but was found not guilty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    defence
    I see they're still hiring British Zippies.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

  4. #3
    My understanding is the jury has to look at the situation at the very moment shots were fired. As soon as he saw the gun the attacker immediately starts backing away, a couple seconds pass as he is backing up, then he is shot (at that moment the original attacker was not an an imminent threat in the eyes of most people). If the attacker was moving forward as he was shot, the shooter would have been found innocent. This why it should be ok to display a firearm to defuse a potentially dangerous situation without it being so bad that shots have to be fired.

  5. #4
    Drejka forgot to shout "he has a gun!" before pulling the trigger.
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Drejka forgot to shout "he has a gun!" before pulling the trigger.
    "Stop resisting" works too.

  7. #6
    Had he not shot the attacker, he would have been charged with brandishing a firearm.

    Of course that would have been a lesser charge with less prison time.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Had he not shot the attacker, he would have been charged with brandishing a firearm.

    Of course that would have been a lesser charge with less prison time.
    I think some states are starting to make brandishing a firearm, with the purpose of desclating in a situation, legal.
    Last edited by pao; 08-24-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #8
    so, where is the justice? Did she get ticketed for parking in the handicap apot or not?
    His Name was Seth Rich.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I see they're still hiring British Zippies.
    The article is from the BBC which of course is British. Surveillance video:



    He pulls up and starts harassing a woman about how she is parked and yelling at her. Her husband is in the store and comes out and pushed the guy away. While he turns away from the gunman, the shooter pulls out his gun and shoots the husband who staggers back into the store where he dies.

    Court documents revealed he had been accused as an aggressor in four other road incidents between 2012 and 2018. In three of them, prosecutors alleged that he threatened people with a gun.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-24-2019 at 06:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #10
    Shooter was clearly wrong. Assaulter did not continue his attack.

    He should've announced he was carrying and call the police so they can charge this guy with assault and the woman for parking in a handicap space.

    But look at the media, white black white black. More racial division.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  13. #11
    So I guess all the media horsesh!t hyperbole about castle doctrine, make my day law, and stand your ground was just... horsesh!t? Shocker...

    Yup, this guy should rot in prison - what a POS.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  14. #12
    Well, that’s what happens when you murder someone.

  15. #13

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    That's what I saw.

    The law is very clear on this point: you can not use deadly force if an attacker is backing away, or de-escalating, regardless of stand your ground laws.
    Police shoot people running away all the time.
    Truth is Fallacy, Fallacy is Evil.

  17. #15

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Uh huh...and?

    They are above the law, and we all know that.
    Do you think in the police protocol policies it states it is okay to shoot people that are not aggressing?
    Truth is Fallacy, Fallacy is Evil.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Police shoot people running away all the time.
    But what about officer safety?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Do you think in the police protocol policies it states it is okay to shoot people that are not aggressing?

    What kind of response is this to what he said? Is this how your brain works? I honestly thought only my teenage daughter was capable of such ridiculous mental gymnastics. Hell, you're even making up words like she does when trying to win the argument.

    Of course no one thinks that, don't be dumb. It's the daily examples of cops getting off for shooting(robbing/beating/raping) people that weren't aggressing being aggressive is the problem, which was obviously what he was alluding to, not your version of what you wanted him to say.

    They don't all get away with it, but the overwhelming majority of them do, hence the perception they are above the law. Qualified immunity says they are above the law.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CoastieInColorado View Post
    What kind of response is this to what he said? Is this how your brain works? I honestly thought only my teenage daughter was capable of such ridiculous mental gymnastics. Hell, you're even making up words like she does when trying to win the argument.

    Of course no one thinks that, don't be dumb. It's the daily examples of cops getting off for shooting(robbing/beating/raping) people that weren't aggressing being aggressive is the problem, which was obviously what he was alluding to, not your version of what you wanted him to say.

    They don't all get away with it, but the overwhelming majority of them do, hence the perception they are above the law. Qualified immunity says they are above the law.
    LOL - What he said.

    Saved me some typing.

    +rep

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Do you think in the police protocol policies it states it is okay to shoot people that are not aggressing?
    Just to clarify: I don't think it is "OK".

    But under the Curricular Force Continuum that almost all cops are trained by today, "officer safety" is paramount.

    Nothing else matters.

    And if the cop in question can in any way make the claim that "I feared for my safety", no matter how thin or ridiculous that claim may be, he will most likely walk away from a deadly force incident that would have you or me looking at hard jail time, just like this one for instance.

    So yes, their policy says it is "OK".

    That is why I have, for years now, been preaching "Do Not Call Cops".

    The risk you take is not worth it, especially in a volatile or fluid situation.

  24. #21
    And while the jury may be correct, who in their right mind in the heat of the moment has the ability to process split second movements like that and make a fire/don't fire decision with adrenaline running?


    Ultimately I think it comes down to the old phrase "An armed society is a polite society."
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Just to clarify: I don't think it is "OK".

    But under the Curricular Force Continuum that almost all cops are trained by today, "officer safety" is paramount.

    Nothing else matters.
    Had a civilian law enforcement official engaged the female in the performance of his/her/xer duties, had she become argumentative, had the male come out of the store and made the exact same contact, and if the LEO had drawn and shot him, this would be a much lesser deal. The LEO would have drove a desk for a few weeks until the investigation determined that his life was in danger, and that would be that. To your point, not that its right but that's reality.

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Well, that’s what happens when you murder someone.
    Bingo!
    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by XNavyNuke View Post
    Had a civilian law enforcement official engaged the female in the performance of his/her/xer duties, had she become argumentative, had the male come out of the store and made the exact same contact, and if the LEO had drawn and shot him, this would be a much lesser deal. The LEO would have drove a desk for a few weeks until the investigation determined that his life was in danger, and that would be that. To your point, not that its right but that's reality.

    XNN
    Yes, that is the reality.

    I try as hard as I can to remove my own biases and pent up anger at the whole situation and just give the best possible advice and comment with the ultimate desire to not see somebody jailed or killed by the system for running afoul of it's labyrinth laws.



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  29. #25
    That is indeed the sad truth. Had a first class citizen, ie: the police, a politician, or an extremely rich person done this they would not have received the same results as the rest of us second class citizens.

  30. #26
    So then why all the open border talk and pay illegal immigrants and civil disobedience bull crap. Why focus on things that require 20 years of hard core legislation to change? Cops murder people and get away with it. What can be done to stop it? If this cannot be stopped and changed why talk about natural born rights and just accept this? Why is not police abuse the number one issue? Cops steal, kill, and are engaged in just about every illegal activity and get elevated to some status of grace. If there were a battle to be fought and won, it seems that the war on cops should be the one. Do cops uphold the constitution? What will be done about it?
    Truth is Fallacy, Fallacy is Evil.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    So then why all the open border talk and pay illegal immigrants and civil disobedience bull crap. Why focus on things that require 20 years of hard core legislation to change? Cops murder people and get away with it. What can be done to stop it? If this cannot be stopped and changed why talk about natural born rights and just accept this? Why is not police abuse the number one issue? Cops steal, kill, and are engaged in just about every illegal activity and get elevated to some status of grace. If there were a battle to be fought and won, it seems that the war on cops should be the one. Do cops uphold the constitution? What will be done about it?
    My real entree to politicking was writing an anti police brutality blog around 2003-2004. So it kinda is a number one issue. I also learned pretty early that you have to meter the dosage of that topic for most Republicans or they lose their minds to statolatry.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    And while the jury may be correct, who in their right mind in the heat of the moment has the ability to process split second movements like that and make a fire/don't fire decision with adrenaline running?


    Ultimately I think it comes down to the old phrase "An armed society is a polite society."
    If you're not of the right mind best to leave your gun at home. The use of it is deadly serious. And citizens don't get 'qualified immunity.'

    Going to AF's remarks...

    Cops train for 'no hesitation' use of lethal force. And are protected by their status for using their training. Citizens must train for 'hesitate like a muther $#@!er until the last possible second' use of lethal force. And even then you can be $#@!ed.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    That is indeed the sad truth. Had a first class citizen, ie: the police, a politician, or an extremely rich person done this they would not have received the same results as the rest of us second class citizens.
    And the idiot didn't help himself by running his mouth to the police in an interview after the fact
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  34. #30
    Yeah, a tad irritating it took 3 minutes to find a video without a jump cut, but here it is, starts at 1:38 by the way:



    Unfortunately, Drejka got confused that carrying a firearm is an insurance policy, not a trump card. Carrying a firearm is supposed to save your life, not help you win a fight. If you can't have the mindset that if you have to use it - you'll likely spend some time in prison and have your life turned upside down sorting it out (but at least you'll be alive and did the right thing), then it's best to leave it at home.

    Pretty bad situation. Could have been avoided if he didn't choose handicap parking violations as his hill to die on. If you want to get pissed, shout something, make them feel bad; fine, but move on: it's silly to turn it into a full blown confrontation. McGlockton probably shouldn't have committed assault & battery on a guy yelling, particularly when he knew they shouldn't be in a handicap spot.

    But I suppose this is evidence that the justice system worked in this case: stand your ground laws are not a license to kill someone because they pushed you onto the ground.

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