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Thread: Colorado OKs electric car requirement to fight air pollution

  1. #1

    Colorado OKs electric car requirement to fight air pollution

    Colorado tightened its air quality regulations on Friday, requiring that at least 5% of the vehicles sold in the state by 2023 emit zero pollution.The state Air Quality Control Commission, which passed the rule on an 8-1 vote, said the requirement applies to auto manufacturers, not buyers. It's intended to boost the number of electric vehicles in a state struggling to control ozone pollution in its most heavily populated area.
    The minimum rises to 6.23% in 2025.
    Colorado is the 11th state to adopt zero-emission standards, according to Green Car Reports, which tracks developments in low-pollution vehicles.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/colorado-oks-...194843463.html
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  3. #2
    Electric cars are a joke and they can easily set on fire.

  4. #3
    Colorado [will require] that at least 5% of the vehicles sold in the state by 2023 emit zero pollution.The state Air Quality Control Commission [...] said the requirement applies to auto manufacturers, not buyers. [...]
    Apparently, it is possible to sell things in Colorado without anyone buying them ...

    ... or what they actually mean is that manufacturers will be punished if the buyers do not pony up ...

    This is like a kidnapper claiming that his ransom demand "applies" only to the person who was kidnapped, and not to the person who is expected to pay the ransom ...


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

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    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
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  5. #4
    Denver and Mexico City are unique situations when it comes to air quality. They are high mountain, ringed with mountains. No Ocean or sea to flush the air out, and no open plains for the air to flow away on. Air can stagnate fast there.

    Unique situations require unique solutions.

    "Principles" be damned.
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Denver and Mexico City are unique situations when it comes to air quality. They are high mountain, ringed with mountains. No Ocean or sea to flush the air out, and no open plains for the air to flow away on. Air can stagnate fast there.

    Unique situations require unique solutions.

    "Principles" be damned.
    How did people manage to live in Denver before this?

    Did they all die at 55?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How did people manage to live in Denver before this?

    Did they all die at 55?
    There were less of them driving.

    That is why Billings is also high, and ringed by mountains, but does not need electric cars. (actually billings is not exactly ringed by mountains. The next biggest city with the same problem as Denver and Mexico City is probably Helena. Some could argue Las Vegas or Salt Lake City or Phoenix)
    Last edited by UWDude; 08-17-2019 at 11:33 PM.
    His Name was Seth Rich.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Denver and Mexico City are unique situations when it comes to air quality. They are high mountain, ringed with mountains. No Ocean or sea to flush the air out, and no open plains for the air to flow away on. Air can stagnate fast there.

    Unique situations require unique solutions.

    "Principles" be damned.
    No open plains, and the air stagnates in Denver? Have you ever been there?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    No open plains, and the air stagnates in Denver? Have you ever been there?

    I have lived there and go there often. They have inversions. The air does stagnate.
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  11. #9
    Are 'legislators' really so ignorant that they believe they can force consumer spending by fiat?

    Time to set up used car dealerships with any kin you have in Co.

    Pre 'lectronic ignition cars and mechanical fuel pump diesels are a sure bet whatever body they're wearing.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Denver and Mexico City are unique situations when it comes to air quality. They are high mountain, ringed with mountains. No Ocean or sea to flush the air out, and no open plains for the air to flow away on. Air can stagnate fast there.

    Unique situations require unique solutions.

    "Principles" be damned.
    All they are doing is pushing their pollution off on wherever their power comes from, we don't
    have substantial 'clean' power today, they're just buying into the 'big Grid' mentality one
    that is doomed for catastrophic fail.

    Nuclear Power is the obvious but most irresponsible, dangerous, Armageddon deadly of all
    available sources.

    Colorado is the next California.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Electric cars are a joke and they can easily set on fire.
    The voltage is high, eventually people caught in flooding situations are going to find this out
    the hard way.

    I'll bet the environmental impact of battery manufacturing and recycling is a nightmare
    they refuse to disclose.

    I love electric motors, but we're not there yet , we don't have clean power to chg the batteries, and
    we don't have the infrastructure.
    Readily available battery swap stations , (not chg stations)
    is also going to be required, a 5 min change out, not a 20 min or 3 hour charging cycle.

  14. #12
    I lived there for around 25 years. Before I moved there a law was passed that required an RTD tax on all purchases. I think the acronym stood for Ride To Denver. Anyway a tax for mass transit. I guess mass transit is not a solution. It used to irritate me because people could ride the bus for cheap but everyone paid a tax that subsidized the system. Even my utility bill at home had RTD tax. I worked 27 miles from home and took Broadway Blvd like all the way from I25 to County Line Road, probably 10 miles or so. A co-worker lived about 5 miles from work off Broadway. He didn't have a car. If he took the bus he had to go to downtown Denver and Transfer. Took him 1.5 hours to go 5 miles.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I have lived there and go there often. They have inversions. The air does stagnate.
    Okay. That hasn't been my experience. I've been there a dozen times over the last 3 years and the wind is constantly blowing. Denver is at the very end of the plains - but it is on the plains - and the wind sweeps down the mountains and East pretty consistently, in my experience. Denver is not "ringed with mountains". It's flat as a pancake from Front Range to Topeka...

    Ultimately it's beside the point... I'm not sure climate conditions justify the heavy hand of the State, regardless.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Okay. That hasn't been my experience. I've been there a dozen times over the last 3 years and the wind is constantly blowing. Denver is at the very end of the plains - but it is on the plains - and the wind sweeps down the mountains and East pretty consistently, in my experience. Denver is not "ringed with mountains". It's flat as a pancake from Front Range to Topeka...

    Ultimately it's beside the point... I'm not sure climate conditions justify the heavy hand of the State, regardless.
    Yes, plains to the east, but the South Platte River and the creeks that feed it go through Denver. There is a depression in that area. I have looked down at downtown Denver from the east.
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  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Yes, plains to the east, but the South Platte River and the creeks that feed it go through Denver. There is a depression in that area. I have looked down at downtown Denver from the east.
    Yeah, I've driven into and out of Denver on 70 numerous times and it does drop out of sight behind some low ridges, but generally speaking Denver is a plains city with mountains to the West and not much by way of elevation to the East until you hit the Mississippi some 900 miles away.

    ETA: That was one of my first observations the first time I was in Denver. I thought it was "in the mountains", and I was stunned by how flat it was.

    But granting that you lived there, you're going to be more familiar with the climate than I am. Again, the ultimate issue is that climate is not a justification for edicts. I mean, that should be fairly elementary logic around here. Although who the $#@! knows anymore...

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Apparently, it is possible to sell things in Colorado without anyone buying them ...

    ... or what they actually mean is that manufacturers will be punished if the buyers do not pony up ...

    This is like a kidnapper claiming that his ransom demand "applies" only to the person who was kidnapped, and not to the person who is expected to pay the ransom ...
    Easy solution, The State of Colorado should buy the vehicles and replace all the ones that use gas.
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryCanadian View Post
    Electric cars are a joke and they can easily set on fire.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post

    I think my F-150 only has a towing capacity of around 8,000lbs...
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  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I think my F-150 only has a towing capacity of around 8,000lbs...
    I believe this is rated at 7500,,, The train was for show.. (good show)

    Though it may be the Rivian I'm thinking of.. 3/4 ton payload too.

    I think the Rivian Start up is R&D for Ford,, I believe they invested.

    https://electrek.co/2018/11/26/rivia...-pickup-specs/



    I said years ago they would have me if they could show me a Pick Up Truck.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I believe this is rated at 7500,,, The train was for show.. (good show)

    Though it may be the Rivian I'm thinking of.. 3/4 ton payload too.

    I think the Rivian Start up is R&D for Ford,, I believe they invested.

    https://electrek.co/2018/11/26/rivia...-pickup-specs/



    I said years ago they would have me if they could show me a Pick Up Truck.
    What is overall total costs of owning and maintaining one of these?

    If I were going somewhere and didn't know when I could acquire fuel again I could get 10 or 20 gas cans and take them with me. I could go a long way with that much fuel. How easy is it to recharge when away from services? I guess a couple of electric solar panels and a couple of days of sun could do the trick.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    What is overall total costs of owning and maintaining one of these?

    If I were going somewhere and didn't know when I could acquire fuel again I could get 10 or 20 gas cans and take them with me. I could go a long way with that much fuel. How easy is it to recharge when away from services? I guess a couple of electric solar panels and a couple of days of sun could do the trick.
    You can produce electricity several ways. Recharging time will be dependent on source.. a Fast charge from any Grid Source.

    Battery life is at 8 to ten years (longer than most folks keep a car)

    High initial cost will be outweighed by the Price of Fuel you don't buy. (or pay much less for)
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    You can produce electricity several ways. Recharging time will be dependent on source.. a Fast charge from any Grid Source.

    Battery life is at 8 to ten years (longer than most folks keep a car)

    High initial cost will be outweighed by the Price of Fuel you don't buy. (or pay much less for)
    How far you get to go on a kilowatt?

  27. #24
    And as a Point.. to make it Clear.. I have never bought into the whole "Green" idea..
    I do like the Pure Performance aspect as well as the efficiency of electrics.

    Energy storage and energy use...
    liquid storage mediums is not the best,, even if it has been what we were stuck with for years.

    Hemp Graphene could bring prices of batteries down by 80%,,

    Solid State storage might even be better,,, But batteries are improving to the point of practicality.

    I see it as a net positive,,, though I'm opposed to AI Driving.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    How far you get to go on a kilowatt?
    Depends..
    How far do you get on a horsepower?

    Tesla is 88 Kw and good for several hundred miles.

    It would depend on vehicle,,motor size and battery management.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 08-18-2019 at 06:32 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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