Rand Paul: If Trump Ends War in Afghanistan, Nobel Committee Should Give Him Peace Prize

[Warlord]

Trump is planning a phased withdrawal from Afghanistan:

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1162395291569610759

[Swordsmyth]

Rand is right.

[Occam's Banana]

People should not be given prestigious accolades for doing things they ought to have done anyway.

(And in any case, as the Obama example illustrates, the Nobel Peace prize is now more a pathetic joke than a prestigious accolade ...)

[Swordsmyth]

People should not be given prestigious accolades for doing things they ought to have done anyway.

(And in any case, as the Obama example illustrates, the Nobel Peace prize is now more a pathetic joke than a prestigious accolade ...)

People should be praised for doing the right thing when everyone else has been doing the wrong thing.
The carrot is just as important as the stick.

[Occam's Banana]

People should be praised for doing the right thing when everyone else has been doing the wrong thing.
The carrot is just as important as the stick.

Merely praising someone for doing something right is one thing.

Giving highly prestigious accolades that are supposed to betoken extraordinary service to a good cause (such as peace) is quite another thing.[1]

Whatever praise one might think Trump deserves. he has done nothing to earn the latter. And neither had Obama - which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...)


[1] To do so when it is undeserved hollows it out and makes it empty, and makes a mockery even of mere praise.

[Swordsmyth]

Merely praising someone for doing something right is one thing.

Giving highly prestigious accolades that are supposed to betoken extraordinary service to a good cause (such as peace) is quite another thing.[1]

Whatever praise one might think Trump deserves. he has done nothing to earn the latter.

Neither had Obama - which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...)


[1] To do so when it is undeserved hollows it out and makes it empty, and makes a mockery even of mere praise.

You make the case for Rand's suggestion yourself:

which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...

[CCTelander]

People should not be given prestigious accolades for doing things they ought to have done anyway.

(And in any case, as the Obama example illustrates, the Nobel Peace prize is now more a pathetic joke than a prestigious accolade ...)

Then there's that whole gun control thing to consider too. Yeah, definitely undeserving of any accolades.

[Zippyjuan]

Then there's that whole gun control thing to consider too. Yeah, definitely undeserving of any accolades.

The Flip Flopper in Chief is trying to back off that one now too.

[CCTelander]

The Flip Flopper in Chief is trying to back off that one now too.

I was referring to his reprehensible support for gun control. If he's backing away from that support now after realizing he may actually need the support of gun owners in the next election, that's no cause for praise either.

[juleswin]

Who is creating these silly tweets for Rand? so because we made a mistake by giving it to Obama, we should now double down on that mistake by giving it to Trump? Trump has continue the Obama war against Yemen, doubled down on Syria, tried to start new ones in Iran and Venezuela. Lastly, is there a rule that it should go to an American president? if no, then why can't this PEACE prize to be given to an actual man of peace?

[Swordsmyth]

Who is creating these silly tweets for Rand? so because we made a mistake by giving it to Obama, we should now double down on that mistake by giving it to Trump? Trump has continue the Obama war against Yemen, doubled down on Syria, tried to start new ones in Iran and Venezuela. Lastly, is there a rule that it should go to an American president? if no, then why can't this PEACE prize to be given to an actual man of peace?

Trump has NOT tried to start new wars in Iran and Venezuela and he has been pulling us out of Syria.

But may be we shouldn't encourage him to do the right thing, it will be so much more satisfying to let the warmongers be the only people he listens to so we can say "told ya so".

[juleswin]

Trump has NOT tried to start new wars in Iran and Venezuela and he has been pulling us out of Syria.

But may be we shouldn't encourage him to do the right thing, it will be so much more satisfying to let the warmongers be the only people he listens to so we can say "told ya so".

You do know it was this encouraging rationale that led to Obama getting a peace prize, with Obama, he actually got the prize before he started his militarism, Trump at the point has shown everyone that he is a man of war.

Sorry but you are wrong, Trump has been trying for a while now to get it on with Iran and Venezuela and he is not pulling out of Syria. They plan on keeping the fighting going on for more years to come while occupying large areas of Syria with their armies or proxies.

[Swordsmyth]

You do know it was this encouraging rationale that led to Obama getting a peace prize, with Obama, he actually got the prize before he started his militarism, Trump at the point has shown everyone that he is a man of war.

Sorry but you are wrong, Trump has been trying for a while now to get it on with Iran and Venezuela and he is not pulling out of Syria. They plan on keeping the fighting going on for more years to come while occupying large areas of Syria with their armies or proxies.

O'Bummer didn't do anything to be encouraged about.

[juleswin]

O'Bummer didn't do anything to be encouraged about.

He did, he got it after the whole speech to the Arab world, the one he made in Egypt, he also reached out to Iran which was considered a gesture of peace. All this happened before he showed his warmongering hand.

[Stratovarious]

You do know it was this encouraging rationale that led to Obama getting a peace prize, with Obama, he actually got the prize before he started his militarism, Trump at the point has shown everyone that he is a man of war.

Sorry but you are wrong, Trump has been trying for a while now to get it on with Iran and Venezuela and he is not pulling out of Syria. They plan on keeping the fighting going on for more years to come while occupying large areas of Syria with their armies or proxies.

What did Obama do specifically to earn the Peace Prize?


: popcorn :

[juleswin]

What did Obama do specifically to earn the Peace Prize?


: popcorn :

nothing, he didn't deserve the prize, same as Trump

[Swordsmyth]

What did Obama do specifically to earn the Peace Prize?


: popcorn :

He gave a speech.







And he was black.

[Zippyjuan]

Trump has NOT tried to start new wars in Iran and Venezuela and he has been pulling us out of Syria.

But may be we shouldn't encourage him to do the right thing, it will be so much more satisfying to let the warmongers be the only people he listens to so we can say "told ya so".

We will be all out by January, 2019. He promised. In March 2018, we will be out of Syria "very soon". He says a lot of things he never does.

Who dropped the '"Mother of All Bombs" on Afghanistan and set records for drone attacks (and stopped sharing information on such attacks so people are unaware they still continue)? Who expanded our involvement in Syria and Yemen?

[juleswin]

We will be all out by January, 2019. He promised. In March 2018, we will be out of Syria "very soon". He says a lot of things he never does.

Who dropped the '"Mother of All Bombs" on Afghanistan and set records for drone attacks (and stopped sharing information on such attacks so people are unaware they still continue)? Who expanded our involvement in Syria and Yemen?

The new peace prize winner.

[Swordsmyth]

Just completed a very good meeting on Afghanistan. Many on the opposite side of this 19 year war, and us, are looking to make a deal – if possible!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 16, 2019

[Zippyjuan]

Trump loves awards and is probably pissed Obama got a Nobel and he may not. He was pushing for one for his photo-ops (there has not been any actual substance behind them) with North Korea and hopes that Peace With Israel may give him another shot (buying off Palestinians without giving them more freedom and rights won't fly- that plan is Dead on Arrival). Surrender in Afghanistan won't do it (the Taliban know how badly he wants out so they aren't going to concede anything- why should they? and the Afghan government isn't even part of the talks).

Obama got his for being the first African American elected President. He hadn't done anything else yet. It was a "hope" award that he would eventually lead to new and better things. Not much changed.

[eleganz]

Trump doesn't necessarily deserve anything but yanking Obama's and handing it to Trump is much more favorable than letting Obama keep an unearned prize.

Plus it would trigger the left and some TDS patients on RPF.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump needs to be persuaded not to listen to the bad guys:



President Donald Trump has been receiving mixed reactions from his Republican colleagues in the Senate since reports surfaced that he may withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

Since taking office, President Trump has considered withdrawing troops a few times but has yet to make the commitment to a full withdrawal.
However, that could all soon change. Trump met with his advisors on Friday to discuss a complete withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, as well as making plans for a peaceful path forward between the two nations.
Although no one wants American troops in harm’s way, there have been some who are warning Trump that this action could be premature. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) took to Twitter to explain his concern about leaving Afghanistan completely.
Graham warned that Trump could be making a “bigger mistake than [former President Barack] Obama’s Iranian nuclear deal,” a deal Trump tore up upon entering the Oval Office.

Graham called leaving Afghanistan a “recipe for disaster” and warned Trump to listen to his national security team, which includes some hawkish members like National Security Director John Bolton.

More at: https://ijr.com/trump-receives-mixed...e-afghanistan/

[Theocrat]

Trump is planning a phased withdrawal from Afghanistan:

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1162395291569610759

The only way Trump (or any U.S. President, for that matter) would deserve a Nobel Peace Prize is if he shutdown all U.S. bases overseas and returned all military servicemembers, equipment, etc. back to the United States.

And he'll get bonus points if he began minimizing a standing, national military by transitioning those powers back to the States, shortly thereafter.

[Occam's Banana]

What I am saying is that since it is already meaningless then why not use it to incentivize Trump to make the right decisions?

Well, apart from the fact that it isn't up to you or me or Rand (and apart from the fact that the people "up" to whom it actually is would never go for it), what incentives would Trump have to "make the right decisions" as a result? After all, he'll already have been given the award ... (when it's supposed to be the other way around ...)

And given its meaninglessness, why should he incentivized by it all (except as a bit of ego fellation for a man whose ego is already overweening)? The fact that Trump even needs such plaudits (or the blandishments of whatever person has most recently spoken to him) in order to "do the right thing" indicates what a shambling wreck of liability the man is. (At least Hillary would have been a continuously galvanizing force as a "clear and present danger," in sharp contrast to the murky waters and submerged rocks of Trump's various "on-again, off-again" shenanigans ...)

Rescinding it from O'Bummer would also help to make it slightly less of a joke [...]

[...] less of a joke is still a joke ...

[...] and also please Trump.

The stroking of a narcissist's ego would not only negate whatever joke-lessening might have occurred, but would make it an even bigger joke still ...

[Swordsmyth]

Well, apart from the fact that it isn't up to you or me or Rand (and apart from the fact that the people "up" to whom it actually is would never go for it), what incentives would Trump have to "make the right decisions" as a result? After all, he'll already have been given the award ... (when it's supposed to be the other way around ...)

And given its meaninglessness, why should he incentivized by it all (except as a bit of ego fellation for a man whose ego is already overweening)? The fact that Trump even needs such plaudits (or the blandishments of whatever person has most recently spoken to him) in order to "do the right thing" indicates what a shambling wreck of liability the man is. (At least Hillary would have been a continuously galvanizing force as a "clear and present danger," in sharp contrast to the murky waters and submerged rocks of Trump's "on-again, off-again" shenanigans ...)


Using the stroking of a narcissist's ego as a criterion would not only negate whatever joke-lessening might have occurred, but would make it an even bigger joke still ...

You wouldn't give it to him until after he ended the war in Afghanistan and that would encourage him subconsciously to end more wars.
It's True that Rand doesn't control the prize but just suggesting it will help to influence Trump and that's a good thing.
And since the award is a joke then why not use it for a good purpose?
Trump may or may not be the shallow narcissist that you believe him to be but either way we should do whatever we can to influence him to do the right thing.

[Occam's Banana]

You wouldn't give it to him until after he ended the war in Afghanistan [...]

I wouldn't give it to him even then.

One should not give high praise merely for the doing of things that all decent people ought to do if it falls within their purview.

To do so is to cheapen and debase all deserved praise, "high" or otherwise ...

[...] and that would encourage him subconsciously to end more wars.
It's True that Rand doesn't control the prize but just suggesting it will help to influence Trump and that's a good thing.
And since the award is a joke then why not use it for a good purpose?
Trump may or may not be the shallow narcissist that you believe him to be but either way we should do whatever we can to influence him to do the right thing.

Of course. Everyone should be encouraged to do the right thing.

My point, though, is that if Trump is so loosely-fastened to doing the right thing that all it takes are things like flattering tweets[1] to get him to do it, then this does not reflect well on Trump at all - as he is just as apt to do the wrong thing when he is subject to obverse influences and flatteries. As I said before:

The fact that Trump even needs such plaudits (or the blandishments of whatever person has most recently spoken to him) in order to "do the right thing" indicates what a shambling wreck of liability the man is. (At least Hillary would have been a continuously galvanizing force as a "clear and present danger," in sharp contrast to the murky waters and submerged rocks of Trump's various "on-again, off-again" shenanigans ...)

[1] Especially ones that involve ego-stroking "carrots" (such as a Nobel Peace prize) that everyone knows are not going to be forthcoming in any case.

[nikcers]

I wouldn't give it to him even then.

One should not give high praise merely for the doing of things that all decent people ought to do if it falls within their purview.

To do so is to cheapen and debase all deserved praise, "high" or otherwise ...



Of course. Everyone should be encouraged to do the right thing.

My point, though, is that if Trump is so loosely-fastened to doing the right thing that all it takes are things like flattering tweets[1] to get him to do it, then this does not reflect well on Trump at all - and he is just as apt to do the wrong thing when he is subject to obverse influences. As I said before:




[1] Especially ones that involve "carrots" (such as a Nobel Peace prize) that everyone knows are not going to be forthcoming in any case.

I agree that people who do the right thing whether they are going to be praised for it or rewarded for it or especially ridiculed or condemned for it are what make life worth living because they are heroes.

[nikcers]

$#@! all the haters who say this isn't enough. Do it for the people who lost their lives and their minds over there. Do it for the families who lost their loved ones over there. Do it for them, and $#@! all the haters. Give the people who went there a parade those are our heroes. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with the politics, those people joined the military to protect our freedom.

[enhanced_deficit]

Could this attack on a wedding gathering of Shiites (they tend to be pro-Iran) that was allgedely aimed to stop US exit from Afghanistan finally mobilize Congress and MAGA administration to cut all foreign aid if hand of Deep State of our closest ally is found to be behind this?

The deadliest attack of the year in Kabul bodes poorly for the US-Taliban deal

US-Taliban peace talks are nearing their conclusion, but a terror attack in Afghanistan’s capital that killed at least 63 people gives credence to critics who claim the deal will be a disaster for Afghans.

By Zeeshan Aleem Aug 18, 2019

An Afghan security official keeps watch over the hall attacked by a suicide bomber during a wedding on August 18, 2019. Haroon Sabawoon/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images A suicide-bomb blast killed at least 63 people at a wedding party in Kabul on Saturday night, and injured 182 more.

It was the most lethal attack in Afghanistan’s capital this year, and it comes at a sensitive time: the US and the Taliban are in the final stages of negotiating a deal that would allow the US to withdraw its troops from the country provided that certain security goals are met.
The Taliban denied responsibility for the attack and condemned it, and the local affiliate of ISIS claimed that it was behind the bombing.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/8/18/...ban-peace-deal


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By ARIEL BEN SOLOMON
Iranian Army Chief of Staff Gen. Hassan Firouzabadi claimed Wednesday that Israel created and supports the terrorist Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.
“ISIS is Israel’s cover up for distancing the revolutionary forces from Israeli borders and creating a margin of security for the Zionists, and the Zionist media have also admitted this fact,” he said, Fars News Agency reported.
ISIS recently took areas in northern Iraq.
jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-army-chief-accuses-Israel-of-creating-ISIS-359875

Netanyahu advised US against attacking ISIS, wants violence between ISIS-Iran

ISIS and Israel to attack Hezbullah in Lebanon


Syria: The Strange US/Israel/Al-Qaeda Ménage à Trois
A little more than a week after the extremists linked to Al-Qaeda by our own US government set up and murdered Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has announced that the United States would send an additional $45 million to the very same Al-Qaeda’s Syrian franchise.
Yes you read that right: The US is sending another $45 million to assist in Syria the same people it is fighting in Afghanistan and the same people who killed US Ambassador Chris Stevens in Libya.
Interestingly, the US, Israel, and Al-Qaeda all agree that the rebels in Syria, many of whom are foreign jihadists, must succeed in overthrowing the Assad government. That is like an all-you-can-eat luncheon buffet in front of hungry conspiracy theorists.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...enage-a-trois/

2019 ISIS Rebirth: Who is the 'founding father' of ISIS in Afghanistan?


Lavon False Flag Terrorist Attacks
Israeli agents bombed Western buildings, tried to make it seem as though Muslim Brotherhood was behind the attacks
Nov. 11, 2009
The agents were told "to undermine the West's trust in the [Egyptian] government by causing public insecurity" while concealing Israel's role in the sabotage.
Israeli officials feared that British troop withdrawal from the Canal zone would encourage Egyptian aggressiveness toward Israel and remove Western leverage to modify Egyptian behavior.
haaretz.com/print-edition...s-later-1.4385
https://www.wrmea.org/1992-july/the-...allations.html



Poll: Would you support ending all US foreign aid immediately?