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Thread: Rand Paul: If Trump Ends War in Afghanistan, Nobel Committee Should Give Him Peace Prize

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    People should be praised for doing the right thing when everyone else has been doing the wrong thing.
    The carrot is just as important as the stick.
    Merely praising someone for doing something right is one thing.

    Giving highly prestigious accolades that are supposed to betoken extraordinary service to a good cause (such as peace) is quite another thing.[1]

    Whatever praise one might think Trump deserves. he has done nothing to earn the latter. And neither had Obama - which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...)


    [1] To do so when it is undeserved hollows it out and makes it empty, and makes a mockery even of mere praise.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Yet another thing the Flip Flopper in Chief backed off from. He was going to throw here in jail "Lock Her Up!" and did nothing. Do they give awards for constantly changing your mind or contradicting ones self?
    FFIC already belongs firmly to Obama, but Trump has let us down, that's a fact.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Merely praising someone for doing something right is one thing.

    Giving highly prestigious accolades that are supposed to betoken extraordinary service to a good cause (such as peace) is quite another thing.[1]

    Whatever praise one might think Trump deserves. he has done nothing to earn the latter.

    Neither had Obama - which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...)


    [1] To do so when it is undeserved hollows it out and makes it empty, and makes a mockery even of mere praise.
    You make the case for Rand's suggestion yourself:


    which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Indeed , it has become a meaningless farce.
    Me and you both. The problem is that the way Rand talks about it, he actually sees it as a serious award to be given to Trump for doing something very ordinary. Do you know how many presidents in the world that isn't at war or occupying another country? a lot of em.

    Rand seems to be having a case of the Trump kiss arse syndrome.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Me and you both. The problem is that the way Rand talks about it, he actually sees it as a serious award to be given to Trump for doing something very ordinary. Do you know how many presidents in the world that isn't at war or occupying another country? a lot of em.

    Rand seems to be having a case of the Trump kiss arse syndrome.
    Could be, he's got to score points somewhere , somehow, it's a token to Trump and his base probably, I was
    part of that base,,,,,,lol, not now, not even sure about Rand anymore with the latest due process comments.....

  8. #36
    Trump needs to be persuaded not to listen to the bad guys:



    President Donald Trump has been receiving mixed reactions from his Republican colleagues in the Senate since reports surfaced that he may withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

    Since taking office, President Trump has considered withdrawing troops a few times but has yet to make the commitment to a full withdrawal.
    However, that could all soon change. Trump met with his advisors on Friday to discuss a complete withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, as well as making plans for a peaceful path forward between the two nations.
    Although no one wants American troops in harm’s way, there have been some who are warning Trump that this action could be premature. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) took to Twitter to explain his concern about leaving Afghanistan completely.
    Graham warned that Trump could be making a “bigger mistake than [former President Barack] Obama’s Iranian nuclear deal,” a deal Trump tore up upon entering the Oval Office.

    Graham called leaving Afghanistan a “recipe for disaster” and warned Trump to listen to his national security team, which includes some hawkish members like National Security Director John Bolton.

    More at: https://ijr.com/trump-receives-mixed...e-afghanistan/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You make the case for Rand's suggestion yourself:

    which is why the Nobel Peace prize is no longer to be taken seriously ... (and how anyone can regard it as meaningful after that charade is beyond me ...
    I don't understand, unless you are saying that Rand is mocking the prize for being such an unserious and meaningless joke (which I suppose he may be doing).

    But if that is the case, then saying Trump should have it doesn't reflect well on Trump, either.

    Neither Obama nor Trump deserve it - and less of a joke is still a joke ...

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I don't understand, unless you are saying that Rand is mocking the prize for being such an unserious and meaningless joke (which I suppose he may be doing).

    But if that is the case, then saying Trump should have it doesn't reflect well on Trump, either.

    Neither Obama nor Trump deserve it - and less of a joke is still a joke ...
    What I am saying is that since it is already meaningless then why not use it to incentivize Trump to make the right decisions?
    Rescinding it from O'Bummer would also help to make it slightly less of a joke and also please Trump.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39

    Winning a Peace Prize is Hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Trump is planning a phased withdrawal from Afghanistan:


    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1162395291569610759
    The only way Trump (or any U.S. President, for that matter) would deserve a Nobel Peace Prize is if he shutdown all U.S. bases overseas and returned all military servicemembers, equipment, etc. back to the United States.

    And he'll get bonus points if he began minimizing a standing, national military by transitioning those powers back to the States, shortly thereafter.
    "Then said He [Jesus] unto them, 'But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it and, likewise, his scrip, and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.'" - Luke 22:36

    "Our freedoms are based on a philosophy called the 'Libertarian Philosophy.' That means we have a right to own anything we want, including guns, as long as we harm no other person." - Dr. Ron Paul

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What I am saying is that since it is already meaningless then why not use it to incentivize Trump to make the right decisions?
    Well, apart from the fact that it isn't up to you or me or Rand (and apart from the fact that the people "up" to whom it actually is would never go for it), what incentives would Trump have to "make the right decisions" as a result? After all, he'll already have been given the award ... (when it's supposed to be the other way around ...)

    And given its meaninglessness, why should he incentivized by it all (except as a bit of ego fellation for a man whose ego is already overweening)? The fact that Trump even needs such plaudits (or the blandishments of whatever person has most recently spoken to him) in order to "do the right thing" indicates what a shambling wreck of liability the man is. (At least Hillary would have been a continuously galvanizing force as a "clear and present danger," in sharp contrast to the murky waters and submerged rocks of Trump's various "on-again, off-again" shenanigans ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rescinding it from O'Bummer would also help to make it slightly less of a joke [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    [...] less of a joke is still a joke ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    [...] and also please Trump.
    The stroking of a narcissist's ego would not only negate whatever joke-lessening might have occurred, but would make it an even bigger joke still ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-17-2019 at 10:13 PM.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Well, apart from the fact that it isn't up to you or me or Rand (and apart from the fact that the people "up" to whom it actually is would never go for it), what incentives would Trump have to "make the right decisions" as a result? After all, he'll already have been given the award ... (when it's supposed to be the other way around ...)

    And given its meaninglessness, why should he incentivized by it all (except as a bit of ego fellation for a man whose ego is already overweening)? The fact that Trump even needs such plaudits (or the blandishments of whatever person has most recently spoken to him) in order to "do the right thing" indicates what a shambling wreck of liability the man is. (At least Hillary would have been a continuously galvanizing force as a "clear and present danger," in sharp contrast to the murky waters and submerged rocks of Trump's "on-again, off-again" shenanigans ...)


    Using the stroking of a narcissist's ego as a criterion would not only negate whatever joke-lessening might have occurred, but would make it an even bigger joke still ...
    You wouldn't give it to him until after he ended the war in Afghanistan and that would encourage him subconsciously to end more wars.
    It's True that Rand doesn't control the prize but just suggesting it will help to influence Trump and that's a good thing.
    And since the award is a joke then why not use it for a good purpose?
    Trump may or may not be the shallow narcissist that you believe him to be but either way we should do whatever we can to influence him to do the right thing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    $#@! all the haters who say this isn't enough. Do it for the people who lost their lives and their minds over there. Do it for the families who lost their loved ones over there. Do it for them, and $#@! all the haters. Give the people who went there a parade those are our heroes. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with the politics, those people joined the military to protect our freedom.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You wouldn't give it to him until after he ended the war in Afghanistan [...]
    I wouldn't give it to him even then.

    One should not give high praise merely for the doing of things that all decent people ought to do if it falls within their purview.

    To do so is to cheapen and debase all deserved praise, "high" or otherwise ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    [...] and that would encourage him subconsciously to end more wars.
    It's True that Rand doesn't control the prize but just suggesting it will help to influence Trump and that's a good thing.
    And since the award is a joke then why not use it for a good purpose?
    Trump may or may not be the shallow narcissist that you believe him to be but either way we should do whatever we can to influence him to do the right thing.
    Of course. Everyone should be encouraged to do the right thing.

    My point, though, is that if Trump is so loosely-fastened to doing the right thing that all it takes are things like flattering tweets[1] to get him to do it, then this does not reflect well on Trump at all - as he is just as apt to do the wrong thing when he is subject to obverse influences and flatteries. As I said before:
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The fact that Trump even needs such plaudits (or the blandishments of whatever person has most recently spoken to him) in order to "do the right thing" indicates what a shambling wreck of liability the man is. (At least Hillary would have been a continuously galvanizing force as a "clear and present danger," in sharp contrast to the murky waters and submerged rocks of Trump's various "on-again, off-again" shenanigans ...)


    [1] Especially ones that involve ego-stroking "carrots" (such as a Nobel Peace prize) that everyone knows are not going to be forthcoming in any case.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-17-2019 at 11:33 PM.


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I wouldn't give it to him even then.

    One should not give high praise merely for the doing of things that all decent people ought to do if it falls within their purview.

    To do so is to cheapen and debase all deserved praise, "high" or otherwise ...



    Of course. Everyone should be encouraged to do the right thing.

    My point, though, is that if Trump is so loosely-fastened to doing the right thing that all it takes are things like flattering tweets[1] to get him to do it, then this does not reflect well on Trump at all - and he is just as apt to do the wrong thing when he is subject to obverse influences. As I said before:




    [1] Especially ones that involve "carrots" (such as a Nobel Peace prize) that everyone knows are not going to be forthcoming in any case.
    I agree that people who do the right thing whether they are going to be praised for it or rewarded for it or especially ridiculed or condemned for it are what make life worth living because they are heroes.

  18. #45
    The DoD budget? Bolton? Iran sanctions? Syria? Yemen? Droning?

    ...O, but he lies constantly about everything and keeps promising to leave Afghanistan?

    Well shucks, give him the peace prize!

    FFS

    Rand's been harming the liberty movement with one unforced, Trump-slurping error after another since early 2016.

    This one's the final straw for me.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The DoD budget? Bolton? Iran sanctions? Syria? Yemen? Droning?

    ...O, but he lies constantly about everything and keeps promising to leave Afghanistan?

    Well shucks, give him the peace prize!

    FFS

    Rand's been harming the liberty movement with one unforced, Trump-slurping error after another since early 2016.

    This one's the final straw for me.
    Rand is doing just fine, your opposition proves it beyond doubt.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rand is doing just fine, your opposition proves it beyond doubt.

    Right. Endorsing red flag laws is "just fine." Pick a $#@!in' principle and stick with it FFS.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Right. Endorsing red flag laws is "just fine." Pick a $#@!in' principle and stick with it FFS.
    I don't like that.
    I probably screamed louder than anyone else here about that but his general performance is much better than what R3v is selling and Red Flag laws hopefully won't go anywhere.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't like that.
    [...] his general performance is much better [...] and Red Flag laws hopefully won't go anywhere.
    One could say exactly the same thing about Justin Amash and impeachment (which is far less likely than Red Flag laws to go anywhere).

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    One could say exactly the same thing about Justin Amash and impeachment (which is far less likely than Red Flag laws to go anywhere).
    Impeachment isn't the only thing Amash has gone seriously wrong about and just the threat of it gives the Neocons and deepstate leverage to use against Trump.
    And Impeachment is just as likely as Red Flag laws in my opinion, Trump has had to walk a very fine line to avoid it.
    And I still supported Amash but wanted him to stop babbling about impeachment until he went full TDS and left the Republican party.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Impeachment isn't the only thing Amash has gone seriously wrong about and just the threat of it gives the Neocons and deepstate leverage to use against Trump.
    And again, one could say exactly the same thing about Trump vis-à-vis Red Flag laws - i.e., it is far from being the only troubling thing about him[1] (though fortunately, this is much more the case for Trump than it is for Rand). Likewise, just the threat of Red Flag laws cedes leverage on the "Overton Window" to the gun grabbers ...



    [1] Indeed, Trump himself, with his various appointments (such as Bolton, to name but one), has given the "Neocons and deepstate" far more aid and comfort than Amash could ever hope to do, even if that was Amash's conscious and deliberate intent (which I do not for a moment believe is the case).

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And Impeachment is just as likely as Red Flag laws in my opinion, Trump has had to walk a very fine line to avoid it.
    On this, we will simply have to disagree. Trump is not and never was going to be impeached.

    It's just more late-stage-democracy-induced hysteria (on both sides) - and it's a sad and disgusting thing that Amash has allowed himself to succumb to it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And I still supported Amash but wanted him to stop babbling about impeachment until he went full TDS and left the Republican party.
    Myself, I could not care less about the impeachment thing, one way or the other - even apart from the fact that I don't think it is (or ever was) really going to happen.
    (Coolidge is the most recent president for whom I might raise any objections to impeachment.)

    But Amash does seem to have significantly diminished his prospects and support - and for no particularly good reason or return, as far as I can tell ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-19-2019 at 01:14 AM.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't like that.
    I probably screamed louder than anyone else here about that but his general performance is much better than what R3v is selling and Red Flag laws hopefully won't go anywhere.

    Oh, well, you don't LIKE that? What a scathing rebuke! That's holding his feet to the fire, all right.

    You "screamed the loudest," did you? Perhaps briefly, but I can't help but notice that NOW you're trying to run the exact same scam that you did during the whole bumpstock fiasco. You're practically using the same verbiage FFS. You know, the whole "(minor criticism) but he's more good than bad and there's nothing to really worry about anyway because _____ (insert egregious gun control proposal here) will never pass anyway."

    Well, your prognostications re the bumpstock ban were uniformly wrong Nostrodumbass. But you knew that going in, didn't you? Your true goal then as it obviously is now was to carry Trump's water and smooth over any animosity he engendered by his support for gun control. And, while Rand may be deserving of forgiveness if he straightens up and flies right from here on out, Trump most certainly is not, for reasons you yourself acknowledged just a few days ago.

    In supporting (let alone actually passing by executive fiat) any victim disarmament at all Trump opened Pandora's Box. He took 25 years worth of positive momentum and progress and ground them to a screeching halt. He handed the initiative over to the gun grabbers on a silver platter. He encouraged and emboldened them, and now they'll be relentless as they've been in the past. It's very possible that this time the battle could be lost completely, as it almost was back in the 1990s.

    And here you are attempting to minimize the danger with $#@! like "Red Flag laws hopefully won't go anywhere." Well Pollyanna, they're already going somewhere at the state level. A new wave of egregious victim disarmament is sweeping across the country. That's on Trump. Also, thanks to Trump lending his support for this $#@!, Republicans are once again showing their true colors and voting in support of more gun control, like they always do at times like this.

    Hopefully they won't go anywhere? SMGDH
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Oh, well, you don't LIKE that? What a scathing rebuke! That's holding his feet to the fire, all right.

    You "screamed the loudest," did you? Perhaps briefly, but I can't help but notice that NOW you're trying to run the exact same scam that you did during the whole bumpstock fiasco. You're practically using the same verbiage FFS. You know, the whole "(minor criticism) but he's more good than bad and there's nothing to really worry about anyway because _____ (insert egregious gun control proposal here) will never pass anyway."

    Well, your prognostications re the bumpstock ban were uniformly wrong Nostrodumbass. But you knew that going in, didn't you? Your true goal then as it obviously is now was to carry Trump's water and smooth over any animosity he engendered by his support for gun control. And, while Rand may be deserving of forgiveness if he straightens up and flies right from here on out, Trump most certainly is not, for reasons you yourself acknowledged just a few days ago.

    In supporting (let alone actually passing by executive fiat) any victim disarmament at all Trump opened Pandora's Box. He took 25 years worth of positive momentum and progress and ground them to a screeching halt. He handed the initiative over to the gun grabbers on a silver platter. He encouraged and emboldened them, and now they'll be relentless as they've been in the past. It's very possible that this time the battle could be lost completely, as it almost was back in the 1990s.

    And here you are attempting to minimize the danger with $#@! like "Red Flag laws hopefully won't go anywhere." Well Pollyanna, they're already going somewhere at the state level. A new wave of egregious victim disarmament is sweeping across the country. That's on Trump. Also, thanks to Trump lending his support for this $#@!, Republicans are once again showing their true colors and voting in support of more gun control, like they always do at times like this.

    Hopefully they won't go anywhere? SMGDH
    Trumps not perfect but when shills are calling him establishment and they tried impeaching him under a phoney investigation based on the fake news Russiagate conspiracy and during the election shills were going to all the political boards trying to get libertarians to vote for Hillary because supposedly she was a libertarian 50 years ago i sort of get the feeling like the deepstate doesnt want him because he is against the globalist agenda. You can criticize his style but you have to pretend like he hasnt had 2/3rds of the government and news stations against him the entire time so its basically his winning strategy. You can criticize him if he signs a bad bill but i would focus efforts on going after the Congress who are writing the bill because it hasnt even been written yet. He even tried to get people to go after the congress for this by saying they would give him a redflag bill to sign.

  28. #54

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Oh, well, you don't LIKE that? What a scathing rebuke! That's holding his feet to the fire, all right.

    You "screamed the loudest," did you? Perhaps briefly, but I can't help but notice that NOW you're trying to run the exact same scam that you did during the whole bumpstock fiasco. You're practically using the same verbiage FFS. You know, the whole "(minor criticism) but he's more good than bad and there's nothing to really worry about anyway because _____ (insert egregious gun control proposal here) will never pass anyway."

    Well, your prognostications re the bumpstock ban were uniformly wrong Nostrodumbass. But you knew that going in, didn't you? Your true goal then as it obviously is now was to carry Trump's water and smooth over any animosity he engendered by his support for gun control. And, while Rand may be deserving of forgiveness if he straightens up and flies right from here on out, Trump most certainly is not, for reasons you yourself acknowledged just a few days ago.

    In supporting (let alone actually passing by executive fiat) any victim disarmament at all Trump opened Pandora's Box. He took 25 years worth of positive momentum and progress and ground them to a screeching halt. He handed the initiative over to the gun grabbers on a silver platter. He encouraged and emboldened them, and now they'll be relentless as they've been in the past. It's very possible that this time the battle could be lost completely, as it almost was back in the 1990s.

    And here you are attempting to minimize the danger with $#@! like "Red Flag laws hopefully won't go anywhere." Well Pollyanna, they're already going somewhere at the state level. A new wave of egregious victim disarmament is sweeping across the country. That's on Trump. Also, thanks to Trump lending his support for this $#@!, Republicans are once again showing their true colors and voting in support of more gun control, like they always do at times like this.

    Hopefully they won't go anywhere? SMGDH
    We were talking about RAND.

    I have repeatedly condemned Trump's bumpstock ban and I have repeatedly stated that he undercut our pro-gun momentum, I said all the same things about his recent gun control talk too.

    Trump is still more good than bad but that will change if he signs any Red Flag legislation. The states that passed Red Flag were going to pass Red Flag laws anyway.

    And both the bumpstock ban and Red Flag laws may yet be overturned in the courts.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Could this attack on a wedding gathering of Shiites (they tend to be pro-Iran) that was allgedely aimed to stop US exit from Afghanistan finally mobilize Congress and MAGA administration to cut all foreign aid if hand of Deep State of our closest ally is found to be behind this?

    The deadliest attack of the year in Kabul bodes poorly for the US-Taliban deal

    US-Taliban peace talks are nearing their conclusion, but a terror attack in Afghanistan’s capital that killed at least 63 people gives credence to critics who claim the deal will be a disaster for Afghans.

    By Zeeshan Aleem Aug 18, 2019

    An Afghan security official keeps watch over the hall attacked by a suicide bomber during a wedding on August 18, 2019. Haroon Sabawoon/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images A suicide-bomb blast killed at least 63 people at a wedding party in Kabul on Saturday night, and injured 182 more.

    It was the most lethal attack in Afghanistan’s capital this year, and it comes at a sensitive time: the US and the Taliban are in the final stages of negotiating a deal that would allow the US to withdraw its troops from the country provided that certain security goals are met.
    The Taliban denied responsibility for the attack and condemned it, and the local affiliate of ISIS claimed that it was behind the bombing.
    https://www.vox.com/world/2019/8/18/...ban-peace-deal


    Related

    Iran army chief accuses Israel of creating ISIS

    By ARIEL BEN SOLOMON
    Iranian Army Chief of Staff Gen. Hassan Firouzabadi claimed Wednesday that Israel created and supports the terrorist Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.
    “ISIS is Israel’s cover up for distancing the revolutionary forces from Israeli borders and creating a margin of security for the Zionists, and the Zionist media have also admitted this fact,” he said, Fars News Agency reported.
    ISIS recently took areas in northern Iraq.
    jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-army-chief-accuses-Israel-of-creating-ISIS-359875

    Netanyahu advised US against attacking ISIS, wants violence between ISIS-Iran

    ISIS and Israel to attack Hezbullah in Lebanon


    Syria: The Strange US/Israel/Al-Qaeda Ménage à Trois
    A little more than a week after the extremists linked to Al-Qaeda by our own US government set up and murdered Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has announced that the United States would send an additional $45 million to the very same Al-Qaeda’s Syrian franchise.
    Yes you read that right: The US is sending another $45 million to assist in Syria the same people it is fighting in Afghanistan and the same people who killed US Ambassador Chris Stevens in Libya.
    Interestingly, the US, Israel, and Al-Qaeda all agree that the rebels in Syria, many of whom are foreign jihadists, must succeed in overthrowing the Assad government. That is like an all-you-can-eat luncheon buffet in front of hungry conspiracy theorists.
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...enage-a-trois/

    2019 ISIS Rebirth: Who is the 'founding father' of ISIS in Afghanistan?


    Lavon False Flag Terrorist Attacks
    Israeli agents bombed Western buildings, tried to make it seem as though Muslim Brotherhood was behind the attacks

    Nov. 11, 2009
    The agents were told "to undermine the West's trust in the [Egyptian] government by causing public insecurity" while concealing Israel's role in the sabotage.
    Israeli officials feared that British troop withdrawal from the Canal zone would encourage Egyptian aggressiveness toward Israel and remove Western leverage to modify Egyptian behavior.
    haaretz.com/print-edition...s-later-1.4385
    https://www.wrmea.org/1992-july/the-...allations.html



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