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Thread: That Executive Order To Stop the Censoring of Conservatives Isn’t What You Think It Is

  1. #1

    That Executive Order To Stop the Censoring of Conservatives Isn’t What You Think It Is

    August 15, 2019


    The White House reportedly has an Executive Order in the works that would put two government agencies in charge of regulating how Big Tech companies moderate and curate content on their platforms.

    News of the EO follows months of increasingly angry complaints from conservatives about social media companies’ alleged bias against them. If you follow President Trump on Twitter, you have likely noticed that he has been engaged in a years-long virtual war with social media platforms over this alleged bias (even though Twitter has never banned him or removed any of his Tweets).

    Politico was the first to report the existence of the draft EO:


    The White House is circulating drafts of a proposed executive order that would address allegations of anti-conservative bias by social media companies, according to a White House official and two other people familiar with the matter — a month after President Donald Trump pledged to explore “all regulatory and legislative solutions” on the issue.

    None of the three would describe the contents of the order, which one person cautioned has already taken many different forms and remains in flux. But its existence, and the deliberations surrounding it, are evidence that the administration is taking a serious look at wielding the federal government’s power against Silicon Valley. (source)



    The White House official told Politico:


    “If the internet is going to be presented as this egalitarian platform and most of Twitter is liberal cesspools of venom, then at least the president wants some fairness in the system. But look, we also think that social media plays a vital role. They have a vital role and an increasing responsibility to the culture that has helped make them so profitable and so prominent.” (source)



    Once politicians start using words like “fairness” and “responsibility”, be wary.


    Be very wary.

    Why? Because the use of those terms usually means some kind of legislation that will likely not be “fair” is impending.

    While many libertarians and conservatives believe (rightfully so) they are being censored in one way or another by platforms like Facebook and Twitter, it is important to understand that when the government starts to regulate things, we all ultimately pay the price. That’s because once the government starts meddling in private affairs, it does not stop there. More laws lead to more laws, and so on – it is a vicious cycle.

    What kinds of penalties would companies face for alleged censorship? No one seems to know yet.

    None of the three people Politico contacted could say what penalties (if any) would be imposed on companies deemed to be censoring political viewpoints. “The order, which deals with other topics besides tech bias, is still in the early drafting stages and is not expected to be issued imminently,” Politico reports.


    “The President announced at this month’s social media summit that we were going to address this and the administration is exploring all policy solutions,” a second White House official said when asked about the draft order.


    The agencies Trump wants to regulate platforms are not authorized to do so.


    The draft EO calls for the FCC to develop new regulations clarifying how and when the law protects social media websites when they decide to remove or suppress content on their platforms. Although still in its early stages and subject to change, the draft EO also calls for the Federal Trade Commission to take those new policies into account when it investigates or files lawsuits against misbehaving companies.

    However, the federal government’s options are limited by the First Amendment. And, a provision of the 1996 Communications Decency Act, which both protects online platforms from liability for content their users post and empowers the companies to remove content without fear of liability, creates another obstacle. That provision, Section 230, has increasingly come under fire from lawmakers of both parties who are frustrated with tech companies’ content moderation practices.



    Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act protects companies from legal responsibility for content posted on their platforms, like hate speech, violence, and graphic images. That’s why social media companies are generally allowed to moderate themselves as long as they’re operating in “good faith.”

    But the new executive order would put all of that content moderation under the FCC’s purview, CNN reports. The government agency would be able to take away a company’s legal immunity if it removes or hides content without notifying the poster. The FCC can also strip the “good faith” immunity if it decides a company is acting unfairly or deceptively when hiding or removing content. (source)



    The White House is crossing some serious lines with this Executive Order.


    Back in May, the White House announced that it had created an online form where Americans can share instances in which they’ve been censored by social media platforms like Facebook and YouTube. The form, which is now closed to new submissions, asked users to share their contact information, social media links, their citizenship and residency status, and links or screenshots of any social media content they’ve posted that was censored by Facebook or its Instagram service, Twitter, or Google’s YouTube.

    “This permission grants the U.S. Government a license to use, edit, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, post, or otherwise distribute all or part of the Content (including edited, composite, or derivative works made therefrom),” read the user agreement for the form.

    But the White House effort may be complicated by skepticism in some agencies involved in the discussions about tech policy, Politico reports:


    The Republicans at the Federal Communications Commission and Federal Trade Commission have said publicly that they don’t see a role for their agencies in policing companies’ online content. The FCC and FTC have joined the Justice and Commerce departments in discussions about the potential bias crackdown.

    “There’s very little in terms of direct regulation the federal government can do without congressional action, and frankly I think that’s a positive thing,” said John Morris, who handled internet policy issues at the Commerce Department’s National Telecommunications and Information Administration before leaving in May.

    He added: “Although the government may be able to support and assist online platforms’ efforts to reduce hate and violence online, the government should not try to impose speech regulations on private platforms. As politicians from both sides of the political spectrum have historically urged, the government should not be in the business of regulating speech.” (source)



    “It makes no sense to involve the FCC here,” Berin Szoka, president of the libertarian-leaning think tank TechFreedom, told CNN. “They have rule-making authority, but no jurisdiction — they can’t possibly want to be involved. It would be an impossible position.”


    Some people close to the tech industry expressed frustration that the White House seemed to be trying to have it both ways — excoriating tech companies for allegedly censoring conservative speech, a claim the platforms vigorously dispute, while castigating them for failing to block enough violent or hateful content. “The internal inconsistency of this is outrageous,” one of them said. (source)



    This executive order would create Internet Speech Police.


    In a TechFreedom post titled Draft Social Media Bias Executive Order Would Create Real Internet Speech Police, Szoka said:


    Trump’s proposed executive order would transform the FCC and FTC from consumer protection agencies into regulators of online speech. Ironically, the same people screaming about ‘censorship’ by private companies would empower regulators to decide what kinds of online speech should and shouldn’t be taken down. That Republicans, after decades of fighting government meddling in broadcasting, now want their own Fairness Doctrine for the Internet is staggeringly hypocritical. (source)



    It is important to remember that social media platforms are protected by the First Amendment because they are private companies. They have the right to exclude anyone from their platforms for any reason at all. The First Amendment protects us from government censorship, not censorship by private companies.

    A journalism professor who specializes in First Amendment law, Jared Schroeder elaborates:


    Confusing social media companies with public spaces — such as parks and sidewalks —the order mistakenly claims jurisdiction where it has none. Public spaces are held in trust by the government and generally cannot limit expression because of the ideas that are expressed. The online forums Facebook and Twitter provide are more comparable to a supermarket, shopping mall, or one of the president’s golf courses. The corporations own the spaces, which remain private. If customers dislike the space, they can show their displeasure by shopping — or golfing — elsewhere.

    The First Amendment does not apply to private spaces, since it only protects us from government restrictions on expression. If a TV network removes a show because one of the actors shares racist ideas, this is not government censorship. It’s a business decision. When Facebook or Twitter blocks someone or removes a post, however fair or unfair, that is not a First Amendment concern. (source)


    “The government cannot force these companies to open up their sites and associate with viewpoints that their owners and shareholders find objectionable, any more than it can force you to display government-approved speech on your private property,” as attorney Daniel Ortner explains in an article for The Hill.


    Aware of these constitutional limits, critics of Facebook or Twitter have taken a different tack and argued that if social media companies filter content in any way, they should be liable for anything that is posted on their platform.

    This gives Facebook an awful choice: filter nothing or aggressively filter all content to exclude anything remotely libelous or offensive to anyone. Faced with a choice of being sued or losing the ability to prohibit even the most shockingly immoral material — including such things as neo-Nazi propaganda, dog-fighting videos, or snuff films (which the Supreme Court has said are protected under the First Amendment) — what would you do?

    Why would anyone believe this dynamic would lead to more freedom of speech on the internet? It more likely would lead to drastically less freedom of expression as platforms impose far more rigid content filters. Say goodbye to being able to instantly tweet what comes to your mind. (source)



    Government regulation of social media platforms would lead us down a slippery slope.


    “The law of unintended consequences, often cited but rarely defined, is that the actions of people – and especially of government – always have effects that are unanticipated or unintended. Economists and other social scientists have heeded its power for centuries; for just as long, politicians and popular opinion have largely ignored it,” Rob Norton explains in The Library of Economics and Liberty.

    Whenever a government enacts a new piece of legislation or creates new regulations, we see the law of intended consequences in action.

    “The first and most complete analysis of the concept of unintended consequences was done in 1936 by the American sociologist Robert K. Merton. In an influential article titled The Unanticipated Consequences of Purposive Social Action, Merton identified five sources of unanticipated consequences,” Norton writes.

    While Merton’s analysis is worth reading in its entirety, it is the third source he identifies that is relevant to this article:


    Merton labeled the third source the “imperious immediacy of interest.” By that he was referring to instances in which someone wants the intended consequence of an action so much that he purposefully chooses to ignore any unintended effects. (That type of willful ignorance is very different from true ignorance.)

    The Food and Drug Administration, for example, creates enormously destructive unintendedconsequences with its regulation of pharmaceutical drugs. By requiring that drugs be not only safe but efficacious for a particular use, as it has done since 1962, the FDA has slowed down by years the introduction of each drug. An unintended consequence is that many people die or suffer who would have been able to live or thrive. This consequence, however, has been so well documented that the regulators and legislators now foresee it but accept it. (source)



    In his piece for The Hill, Ortner goes on to ask a thought-provoking question:


    Maybe you like the idea of President Trump’s appointees deciding what must or must not be posted on social media — but how will you feel if it’s President Sanders, President Warren, or President Biden? (source)


    If the proposed EO becomes reality, it would set a dangerous precedent when it comes to freedom of expression, particularly since the government would decide what “fair” means.

    We should be very careful what we ask for when it comes to government regulation of, well – anything.



    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/...u-think-it-is/
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  3. #2
    Maybe you like the idea of President Trump’s appointees deciding what must or must not be posted on social media — but how will you feel if it’s President Sanders, President Warren, or President Biden? (source)


    If the proposed EO becomes reality, it would set a dangerous precedent when it comes to freedom of expression, particularly since the government would decide what “fair” means.
    In a nutshell, THIS!
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  4. #3
    The Narcissist-in-Chief doesn't like criticism.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  5. #4
    Nobody has to use twitter, nobody has to use facebook, there are alternatives. This is a classic example of the "do something" syndrome.
    "The Patriarch"

  6. #5
    News of the EO follows months of increasingly angry complaints from conservatives about social media companies’ alleged bias against them. If you follow President Trump on Twitter, you have likely noticed that he has been engaged in a years-long virtual war with social media platforms over this alleged bias (even though Twitter has never banned him or removed any of his Tweets).
    No need for the caveat of “alleged”.

    While many libertarians and conservatives believe (rightfully so) they are being censored in one way or another by platforms like Facebook and Twitter, it is important to understand that when the government starts to regulate things, we all ultimately pay the price.
    That’s better.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Nobody has to use twitter, nobody has to use facebook, there are alternatives. This is a classic example of the "do something" syndrome.
    IMHO, the problem is not that supposedly non-government entities (Twitter, Facebook) are running their own businesses, it’s the fact that the entire leftist establishment complex as a whole has conspired to prevent competition (alternatives).

    A secondary problem is the size and scope of the Twitter and Facebook platforms. They are used by almost every politician and media person. In fact, courts have “ruled” that Trump can not block users on Twitter because it is now the public square and an official communication channel of the government. Can’t have it both ways.

    As much as I wished Trump would lead the way to a new platform, you can guarantee that the minute that he used any other platform, it would be labeled the official white nationalist platform by the media and the left.

    And what is not a solution at all is government legislating and regulating censorship.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Nobody has to use twitter, nobody has to use facebook, there are alternatives. This is a classic example of the "do something" syndrome.
    There are millions of peoples addicted to social media that literally have to use those platforms. If your political competitor has access to reach more voters than you are going to lose. You can't just go to public places to reach these people because they don't go to public places. You can't just go to other websites to reach these people because they don't go to other websites. Maybe some of them go to public places or other websites but they don't spend any where near that much time in their day going to other websites or going other places.

  9. #8



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  11. #9
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    Not good.

    https://gab.com/a/posts/102606517093557888

    The CEO and founder of Gab is very much against it.

    https://gab.com/a/posts/102588369222866704

    "The Trump administration's proposal seeks to significantly narrow the protections afforded to companies under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act"

    This is BAD. Here's why:

    Apart from the obvious fact that the FCC is a political body and should not have the power to determine what is and is not biased, Section 230 protects American companies from foreign authorities with far less liberal speech regimes than our own.

    On balance, removing immunity from a publishing platform would result in worse outcomes for free speech than simply doing nothing and letting the market sort things out.

    As a philosophical matter, in the United States the government has no business patrolling anyone's biases and thoughts, whether they be individuals at a protest or individuals working together as a corporation.

    In a free country a corporation should be free to be biased. Google censors pro-democracy activists on behalf of Chinese Communists. Twitter lets Pakistan and India tell it what Americans can and can't say. Gab is biased towards American law and freedom.

    Gab is thriving because we don't patrol legal speech. Gab is a threat because we violate the unspoken rule, shared by all big tech companies, that every user of the Internet must be subject to aggressive content moderation, which in our experience, users hate.

    From our standpoint, the mobile app ecosystems are the biggest choke point, particularly with Apple which does not permit iPhone users to direct-download third party applications to their phones. Apple + Google= duopoly on mobile app distribution. Full stop.

    We believe the big tech companies have sufficiently close connections between them that they can and do collude to remove competitors. Gab is the perfect example of this abuse of market power in action.

    Apple should lose its stranglehold over what apps users can download on iPhones, Google should be broken up, and the individual corporate officers responsible for these anticompetitive practices should be individually punished.

    Google is a vast repository of private information and we believe that their App Store dominance is only one small part of their anticompetitive activity across the wider economy - which includes dominance over SEO, advertising and the flow of dollars to online publishers, as evidenced by a recent $1.7 billion antitrust fine levied against Google by European regulators.

    We believe that an antitrust investigation of these companies will reveal all manner of anticompetitive conduct in areas as diverse as search ranking, advertising, mobile app distribution, browser bundling, and even browser performance.

    Otherwise if the Republicans and President Trump want to stop Big Tech bias THEY NEED TO SUPPORT FREE MARKET ALTERNATIVES LIKE GAB, BITCHUTE, AND OTHERS.
    Last edited by UWDude; 08-15-2019 at 10:22 AM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Not good.

    https://gab.com/a/posts/102606517093557888

    The CEO and founder of Gab is very much against it.

    Is that link still working for you? I get a blank page on both IE and Chrome.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Is that link still working for you? I get a blank page on both IE and Chrome.
    Posted a full statement of his above

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    News of the EO follows months of increasingly angry complaints from conservatives about social media companies’ alleged bias against them. If you follow President Trump on Twitter, you have likely noticed that he has been engaged in a years-long virtual war with social media platforms over this alleged bias (even though Twitter has never banned him or removed any of his Tweets).
    No need for the caveat of “alleged”.

    While many libertarians and conservatives believe (rightfully so) they are being censored in one way or another by platforms like Facebook and Twitter, it is important to understand that when the government starts to regulate things, we all ultimately pay the price.
    That’s better.
    I noticed the same contrast. It's like two different people wrote those things.

    And while I am no Trump defender, the closing parenthetical comment in the first quote is just asinine.
    Is one not to make allegations of bias unless one has been banned or censored?
    What the hell is the point of that remark?
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-15-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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      -- The Law (p. 54)
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  15. #13
    Enforcing the law and checking compliance with section 230 of the communications act. That's literally the best reason for an executive agency to exist.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  16. #14
    The issue with these companies is not that they censor. They enjoy legal protections because they are supposed to operate with content neutral rules. However what we experience and know to be true is that they are not content neutral. #1 they have vague rules. #2 they censor "rule breaking content" from conservatives they simply don't like, i.e. alex jones, and do not censor "rule breaking content" from Marxist liberals they like and protect. Thus they are promoting a Publisher agenda and should not be afforded the legal protections of section 230.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  17. #15
    Isn't it odd how government grows the most under Republican presidents? It's almost like it's intentional or somethin'.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  18. #16
    This gives Facebook an awful choice: filter nothing or aggressively filter all content to exclude anything remotely libelous or offensive to anyone. Faced with a choice of being sued or losing the ability to prohibit even the most shockingly immoral material — including such things as neo-Nazi propaganda, dog-fighting videos, or snuff films (which the Supreme Court has said are protected under the First Amendment) — what would you do?

    Why would anyone believe this dynamic would lead to more freedom of speech on the internet? It more likely would lead to drastically less freedom of expression as platforms impose far more rigid content filters. Say goodbye to being able to instantly tweet what comes to your mind.
    This is exactly the point, as the CEO of Gab correctly states, users hate aggressive and rigid content filters. Thus if Facebook imposed such a change, users would flee the platform, to a competing platform such as Gab, that does not filter content, and facebook as it exists now would fail. THUS this is a win for free speech. Or facing its own destruction and desire to continue to exist, Facebook would drastically reduce content filtering. THUS this is a win for free speech.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    This is exactly the point, as the CEO of Gab correctly states, users hate aggressive and rigid content filters. Thus if Facebook imposed such a change, users would flee the platform, to a competing platform such as Gab, that does not filter content, and facebook as it exists now would fail. THUS this is a win for free speech. Or facing its own destruction and desire to continue to exist, Facebook would drastically reduce content filtering. THUS this is a win for free speech.
    Except there really isn't a competing platform is there. There's no platform that you can go on that everyone is already on that you know practically. Its starting to get competition because of their $#@!ty data privacy but that doesn't mean you can go on another platform and easily communicate with a lot of people you know without dragging all of them onto it. Its like telephones, everyone has a telephone number. You can't use a different platform a competing platform that you can communicate with everyone on that already has a telephone. You would have to convert everyone you know to join and than you still wouldn't be able to talk to anyone who doesn't.



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