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Thread: Anti-natalists: The people who want you to stop having babies

  1. #1

    Exclamation Anti-natalists: The people who want you to stop having babies

    And this is how you kill a society.

    This is what happens when you have no past, or more correctly, the destroyers have taken it away from you, no common bond or heritage to what has gone on before, the accomplishments and struggles of your people that have gone on before, and have no aspirations for the future because "it's all pointless anyway".

    Just mindless, hopeless, hapless meatsacks of humanity, consuming and dying in pointless, endless circles.

    This is 1984, if you recall, much more so than the surveillance and heavy handed police state.

    No past, no future, just the present, with The Party in total control.



    Anti-natalists: The people who want you to stop having babies

    https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-49298720

    By Jonathan Griffin

    13 August 2019

    They believe humans shouldn't have children. Who are the anti-natalists - and how far are they willing to push their ideas?

    "Wouldn't it just be better to blow a hole in the side of the earth and just have done with everything?"

    Thomas, 29, lives in the east of England, and although his idea of blowing up the world is something of a thought experiment, he is certain about one thing - humans should not have babies, and our species should gradually go extinct.

    It's a philosophy called anti-natalism. While the idea dates back to ancient Greece, it has recently been given a huge boost by social media.

    On Facebook and Reddit, there are dozens of anti-natalist groups, some with thousands of members. On Reddit, r/antinatalism has nearly 35,000 members, while just one of the dozens of Facebook groups with an anti-natalist theme has more than 6,000.

    They are scattered around the world and have a variety of reasons for their beliefs. Among them are concerns about genetic inheritance, not wanting children to suffer, the concept of consent, and worries about overpopulation and the environment.

    But they are united in their desire to stop human procreation. And although they are a fringe movement, some of their views, particularly on the state of the earth, are increasingly creeping into mainstream discussion.

    While not an anti-natalist, the Duke of Sussex recently said he and his wife were planning to have a maximum of two children, because of environmental concerns.

    Philosophical chat

    Thomas hadn't heard of anti-natalism before someone used the term to describe his views in a YouTube comments thread a few years ago. Since then, he's become an active member of an anti-natalist Facebook group. It provides him with intellectual stimulation and a place to test his debating skills.

    "I think it's awesome, you're discussing real life problems," he says. "You've got an idea - let's say humans do go extinct. What if humans then evolve again? Then you haven't really solved the problem.

    "There's a lot of discussion, some of it gets quite touchy."

    But his passion for anti-natalism isn't only theoretical. Thomas believes all human life is purposeless and has tried, although not succeeded, in getting a vasectomy on Britain's National Health Service (NHS). NHS doctors can refuse to perform sterilisation operations if they believe the procedure is not in the best interests of the patient.

    Non-violence and consent

    Despite some of the nihilist rhetoric in anti-natalist groups, there's no indication that they're a violent threat. When they do talk about extinction it often feels as though it's a debating exercise. No-one in their online communities is threatening murder or violence.

    Thomas's idea of blowing a hole in the side of the earth - he imagines a big red button that would end human life and says he'd "press that in an instant" - is actually highly controversial because of a key anti-natalist principle: consent.

    Put simply, it's the idea that creating or destroying life requires the consent of the person who will be born or die.

    'I'm suing my parents for giving birth to me'

    Kirk lives in San Antonio, Texas. He says he recalls a conversation with his mother when he was just four years old. She told him that having children was a choice.

    "This doesn't make any sense to me, to voluntarily put someone who has no needs or wants prior to their conception into this world to suffer and die," he says.

    Kirk says that even at that young age, he became an anti-natalist. He opposes the creation of human life because none of us were explicitly asked if we wanted to be here.

    "If every person gave consent to play the game of life then I personally wouldn't have any objection to that," he concedes. "It hinges on the consent or lack thereof."

    The concept also works in reverse. The problem with that big red humanity-eraser button is that plenty of people enjoy life - and not everyone would consent to it all coming to an end. Instead, Kirk and most anti-natalists want people to volunteer to stop giving birth.

    Mental health issues

    There's another distinct theme common in anti-natalist groups. Posters frequently share experiences of their own mental health, and occasionally condemn those with mental health problems for having children.

    One post included a screenshot of a post from another user that read: "I have a borderline personality disorder, in addition to bipolar and generalized anxiety". The anti-natalist added their own comment: "This individual has two kids. I feel bad for the kiddos".

    In another group, there was also a comment where someone was clearly contemplating suicide.

    "I've had schizophrenia and depression," Thomas explains. "Depression does run in my family too. I think if I have kids there's a high likelihood that they're going to be depressed and they're not going to like their life."

    But he also says the community is often wrongly labelled by outsiders.

    "People start labelling us crazy psychos," he says. The truth, he says, is much more complex.

    Saving the earth?

    Fuelling anti-natalist arguments in recent years is an increasing focus on the environment and the potentially devastating effects of climate change.

    Judging from posts in the anti-natalist groups, there's clearly a large overlap between their ideas and environmental activism.

    "I feel that it is selfish to have children at this time," adds Nancy a vegan, plastic-free, animal rights enthusiast and yoga instructor from the Philippines."The reality is that the children being born into the world are creating more destruction for the environment."

    'How can I help fight climate change?'

    In a Facebook group called "very angry anti-natalists" a petition is being shared which they hope to send to the United Nations. Its title is "Overpopulation root of the climate catastrophe - worldwide birth stop now." So far it has 27,000 signatures.

    The idea of refraining from having children to benefit the environment isn't a new one. In Britain a charity called Population Matters has proposed this for years - although they are not anti-natalists. In fact, they argue in favour of the sustainability of the human race rather than its extinction.

    "Our aim is to achieve harmony between the human race and the planet we're fortunate to inhabit," says Robin Maynard, the group's director. "If we have fewer children across the globe and smaller families we can achieve a much more sustainable population."

    But will an increasing population necessarily lead directly to environmental disaster? According to the BBC's Global Population Correspondent Stephanie Hegarty, it's hard to say, because the future is so difficult to predict.

    "According to scientific projections, due to economic development and dropping fertility rates, the population of the world is likely to plateau at about 11 billion in 80 years," she says. "Whether the planet can sustain that or not - we do not know.

    "It's also very difficult to predict how many people the planet can sustain because it's all about consumption. And that means everything from air, water, food, fossil fuels, wood, plastic - the list goes on and on," she says. "Clearly some of us are consuming a lot more than others. A family of 12 in a country like Burundi will consume less, on average, than a family of three in Texas.

    "There are so many factors that are going to be changing over the next decade and the next century that we can't predict right now."

    Insults and criticism

    Among the intense philosophical and ethical debates going on anti-natalist groups, there's a darker and less edifying undercurrent. Some routinely insult parents - calling them "breeders". Other slurs are directed at children.

    "Whenever I see a pregnant woman, disgust is the first feeling." wrote one user next to a picture that said: "I hate baby bump".

    But that doesn't mean that all anti-natalists hate children, according to those who spoke to the BBC.

    "I would say I personally like children and it is because I like them that I don't want them to suffer," Nancy says. "Maybe bringing them into the world would give me some pleasure but the possible threat is so huge I'm just not sure it's worth it."

    But that's not the only criticism. In some anti-natalist groups, users allude to the notion that babies shouldn't be born in war zones, if there is a high chance of disability, or even to low-income parents. At times the rhetoric sounds like selective breeding - or eugenics.

    The anti-natalists we spoke to had mixed feelings about those ideas.

    "What are their motives behind having a kid?" says Thomas when asked if he's concerned about children being born in war-torn areas. "In such a country there's less hope that things are going to turn around."

    He's more relaxed about children being born into low-income households.

    "Obviously I'm against having kids... but I think you can be happy and in a low-income area."

    "My anti-natalism is across the board," states Nancy. She opposes eugenics. "Why are we picking and choosing some groups because they are in a position of disadvantage?"

    So is there a general anti-natalist life philosophy?

    "Do the best you can," says Kirk. "Be kind - and don't procreate."



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  3. #2
    Like I give a $#@! what these Anti-natalists think.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  4. #3
    As for me and my 1000 sq foot house, we will continue to be fruitful and multiply.

    Kid #4 on its way
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  5. #4
    So they've hit on the idea that life comes with suffering, but that's it? Is this like really shallow existentialism or nihilism?

    Yeah life often sucks and it might not even have clear meaning or purpose, but a person can choose to create meaning or purpose to accomplish things or experience things making life worth living even with the suffering.

    I feel like these must be people with no hobbies or imagination or at the very least appreciation of art or music.


    As for me, I'm not having kids because I'm a truck driver. I just can't see trying to do that and being mostly absent on the road. It's a crappy job, but it's what I got.

  6. #5
    "Oh, grow up, you whinging twerps." -- Albert Camus (paraphrase)



    EDIT: LOL. VIDEODROME beat me to it ...
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-13-2019 at 02:26 PM.


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    "Oh, grow up, you whinging twerps." -- Albert Camus (paraphrase)
    "What he said." -- Julian Simon (paraphrase)

  8. #7
    I hope the leftists all jump on the bandwagon, humanity would greatly benefit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    #nochildbornalive
    Do something Dodgers.



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  11. #9
    Stop government funding of single mothers and all low income programs.

    Let the intelligent/moral/responsible breed to their hearts content.

    Hell let the other breed too just stop supporting it with government largess in any form.

  12. #10
    I always liked the idea in theory but correctly predicted that I would have my life shattered by my political enemies and that shattered any hope of the idea. I don't like the idea of more victims for my actions and ideas being created.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Stop government funding of single mothers and all low income programs.

    Let the intelligent/moral/responsible breed to their hearts content.

    Hell let the other breed too just stop supporting it with government largess in any form.
    That was the plan all along with Blacks. Get them on welfare, kick the man out of the house because government was taking care of them.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    That was the plan all along with Blacks. Get them on welfare, kick the man out of the house because government was taking care of them.
    not entirely, a lot of it is socially caused by a number of factors. Monogoamy is pushed by churches and goes against the natural tendancies of many people. Its something of an evolutionary trait more than anything. That tends to cause a lot of social problems but it does naturally seem to be an evolutionary advantage for a lot of species.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    not entirely, a lot of it is socially caused by a number of factors. Monogoamy is pushed by churches and goes against the natural tendancies of many people. Its something of an evolutionary trait more than anything. That tends to cause a lot of social problems but it does naturally seem to be an evolutionary advantage for a lot of species.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  16. #14

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    • The Evolutionary Psychology Behind Politics is available at Amazon at the link below. It is also offered free in Kindle format periodically. For more on that offer, see: AnonymousConservative.com.Buy the book now at Amazon.com here:




    https://www.anonymousconservative.com
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I hope the leftists all jump on the bandwagon, humanity would greatly benefit.
    Yes it would be great to see leftists die out and become extinct.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Yes it would be great to see leftists die out and become extinct.
    From what I read they're screwing everything but the opposite sex anyway.....

  21. #18



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