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Thread: Thomas Massie: ‘Red Flag’ Laws Are the Wrong Solution to Mass Shootings.

  1. #1

    Thomas Massie: ‘Red Flag’ Laws Are the Wrong Solution to Mass Shootings.

    They haven’t reduced crimes, and the potential for misuse is great
    Everyone is sick of mass public shootings in the United States. Enough is enough. Everyone, including us, is incredibly frustrated.

    But let’s do something that doesn’t make the problem worse.

    With President Trump’s endorsement, Senate Republicans are moving forward with one law that they hope will help — a so-called “red-flag” law, advancing on the federal level what are known as “extreme risk protection orders.” Ohio’s governor also came out and endorsed such a law for his state after the attack.

    Depending upon the state, anyone from a family member, intimate partner, or ex to house- or apartment-mates or a police officer can file a complaint. Under Colorado’s recent law, anyone at all can make a phone call to the police. They don’t even have to be living in the state. There is no hearing. All the judge has before him is the statement of concern.

    While Trump emphasized mental health in last week’s speech about the Texas and Ohio shootings, red-flag laws are not specifically about mental illness. Indeed, only one state law even mentions the term. It’s about figuring out who is going to commit a crime (or suicide). This is the realm of science fiction, and is the theme of the Tom Cruise movie Minority Report. At least the Future Crime division in the movie had the help of psychics
    .

    More....https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...ass-shootings/
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 08-13-2019 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Facebook tracker removed from url.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    EXACTLY.

    The Minority Report is indeed flourishing.
    There is no spoon.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Watch out for trackers in URLs you copy. Here is the URL with the Facebook click ID stripped:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...ass-shootings/
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  5. #4
    Cross posting this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Red flag laws defy logic. Similar to other prohibited persons.

    The theory here is that an individual is so dangerous to society, that they must be prevented from legally purchasing weapons. What is wrong with that?

    - First of all, if a person is truly that dangerous, why are they out walking the streets at all? Illogical.
    - People and criminals will always be able to get weapons, thus this will not work,
    - A person that is too dangerous could kill people by other means. Guns are simply tools, and their are plenty of tools in the toolbox. Thus, this will not work.
    - Falling through the cracks. This already happens. Prohibited people have bought weapons and committed crimes because the system is by no means perfect.
    - Abuse. Like SWATing, this system can and will be abused. Somebody has a grudge? They can report you. Angry ex? They can report you. And like SWATing, people will die when being raided in the pre-dawn hours. It has already happened.
    - Due process. This system destroys due process. It is unconstitutional.
    - Second Amendment is violated. Unconstitutional.
    - And finally, how much will this illogical and futile system cost? Probably quite a bit.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    While Trump emphasized mental health in last week’s speech about the Texas and Ohio shootings, red-flag laws are not specifically about mental illness. Indeed, only one state law even mentions the term. It’s about figuring out who is going to commit a crime (or suicide). This is the realm of science fiction, and is the theme of the Tom Cruise movie Minority Report. At least the Future Crime division in the movie had the help of psychics.
    Spot on. Shocking that lawmakers so easily lose sight of reality.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    I stand with Rand Massie ...


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  8. #7
    Massie is the last great hope.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Massie is the last great hope.
    Current power rankings of only liberty loving Congress critters.
    1. Massie
    2. Amash
    3. Rand

    Amash taking the right stand along with Massie.



    Is the inside man Rand influencing Trump or is it the other way around?
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬



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  11. #9
    So if I owned a gun and someone for random reasons decided to do a Red Flag on me it would go to a Judge? Is the process after that some kind of informal hearing? Seems like mostly a nuisance and if someone is blatantly wasted the court's time they could be found in contempt and fined.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    Current power rankings of only liberty loving Congress critters.
    1. Massie
    2. Amash
    3. Rand

    Amash taking the right stand along with Massie.



    Is the inside man Rand influencing Trump or is it the other way around?

    I'm pretty sure Trump's tweet indicates he never supported the laws in the first place. No idea what Rand is doing, but I think he will do the right thing in the end.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I'm pretty sure Trump's tweet indicates he never supported the laws in the first place. No idea what Rand is doing, but I think he will do the right thing in the end.
    "We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms and that if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process," Trump said in televised remarks from the White House on Monday morning. "That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders."
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    "We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to public safety do not have access to firearms and that if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process," Trump said in televised remarks from the White House on Monday morning. "That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders."

    I'm pretty sure Trump could be going around personally confiscating firearms from innocent, law abiding gun owners and dannno would still be telling us how much Trump supports gun ownership. But hey, the pay's good if you can get the work. Either that or it's all that methane he's forced to breathe with his head shoved so far up Trump's ass.
    Last edited by CCTelander; 08-13-2019 at 04:21 PM.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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