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Thread: Ron Paul's immigration position from 2007

  1. #211



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  3. #212
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:














    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. Thatís a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #213
    I agree with Ron on all of this.

    It's why I voted for him in 2008, 2012 and 2016.

    If he has changed his mind, that is unfortunate.

    I have not.

    In fact, if anything, in face of the clear migrant invasion, I have taken a much harder line on this issue.

    Those who are here illegally, get the $#@! out of my country.

    Those who are not here yet, $#@! off, country is full.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:














    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. Thatís a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

  5. #214
    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    *No biometrics
    *No walling our country in
    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
    *End welfare entirely
    *No abuse of prisoners in US custody


    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded use of biometrics
    *Increased government spying
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
    *Attempting to wall our country in
    *No significant attempts to end welfare
    *Offered welfare to immigrants
    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
    *Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

    This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
    If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


    So, in what other ways does Ron Paul differ from trump on immigration? Does anyone have any others that can be listed?
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I agree with Ron on all of this.

    It's why I voted for him in 2008, 2012 and 2016.

    If he has changed his mind, that is unfortunate.

    I have not.

    In fact, if anything, in face of the clear migrant invasion, I have taken a much harder line on this issue.

    Those who are here illegally, get the $#@! out of my country.

    Those who are not here yet, $#@! off, country is full.
    Taking a much much harder line on this issue = changing your mind. You used to agree with Ron Paul about this issue. You don't any more.

    Notice that, despite the way immigration restrictionists have tried to extrapolate a hard line stance on Ron Paul's part on this issue from the quotes given, there's nothing hard line in any of them as far as restricting immigration goes. Nobody needs to suggest that Ron Paul changed his mind between the time of these campaign promises and all his other pro-immigration statements, because there's really nothing in here that contradicts his pro-immigration positions.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 08-21-2019 at 07:35 AM.

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    *No biometrics
    *No walling our country in
    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
    *End welfare entirely
    *No abuse of prisoners in US custody


    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded use of biometrics
    *Increased government spying
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
    *Attempting to wall our country in
    *No significant attempts to end welfare
    *Offered welfare to immigrants
    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
    *Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

    This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
    If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


    So, in what other ways does Ron Paul differ from trump on immigration? Does anyone have any others that can be listed?
    Yes. For starters, Trump is a life-long shill for Eminent Domain, which Ron Paul clearly is not:

    Snip:
    Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...-s-border-wall
    It is not only Libertarians who value Private Property and Contracts Rights, but also always part of the Republican Platform... until Neocon entered the mix.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    *No biometrics
    *No walling our country in
    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
    *End welfare entirely
    *No abuse of prisoners in US custody


    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded use of biometrics
    *Increased government spying
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
    *Attempting to wall our country in
    *No significant attempts to end welfare
    *Offered welfare to immigrants
    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
    *Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

    This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
    If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


    So, in what other ways does Ron Paul differ from trump on immigration? Does anyone have any others that can be listed?
    Here are some good write-ups on Ron Paul's immigration positions from the immigration restrictionist site NumbersUSA. As they note, in comparison to all the other GOP candidates in 2012, Ron Paul was the least in line with their own immigration restrictionist policies.
    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/11769
    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...n-grade-f.html
    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...t-we-didnt-mak

    We could add to your list the following:

    *Ron Paul is against E-Verify. And more than that, he is against any laws mandating that employers assist in the enforcement of immigration laws. This point all by itself practically neuters the most important enforcement tool that immigration restrictrionists have. Without requiring employers to vet their employees' immigration statuses, there's no effective way to stop them from hiring unlimited numbers of unlawful aliens and no effective way to prevent unlimited numbers of unlawful aliens from being able to live indefinitely in the US under the radar.

    *Ron Paul supports increasing overall immigration.

    *Ron Paul sees the economic effect of immigrants taking jobs here as good, not bad.

    *Ron Paul supports allowing unlawful aliens to stay in the US to live and work as long as they are not receiving welfare. He even speaks positively about the possibility of granting them a legal status to do so, as he calls it "a green card with an asterisk." He does not support trying to deport them all.

  10. #218
    Since Trump has been in office, has Ron Paul had anything positive to say about any of his immigration restrictionist policies or promises? We can all find plenty of negative things he has to say about them. Is there anything Trump has done in this regard that Ron Paul actually likes?

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yes. For starters, Trump is a life-long shill for Eminent Domain, which Ron Paul clearly is not
    That would already be covered under no walling our country in

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    We could add to your list the following:

    *Ron Paul is against E-Verify.
    Already covered under no biometrics

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    *Ron Paul supports increasing overall immigration.
    I've never seen that stated as an actual policy goal. Do you have a source to support that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    *Ron Paul sees the economic effect of immigrants taking jobs here as good, not bad.
    That isn't a policy position, that's a viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    *Ron Paul supports allowing unlawful aliens to stay in the US to live and work as long as they are not receiving welfare. He even speaks positively about the possibility of granting them a legal status to do so, as he calls it "a green card with an asterisk." He does not support trying to deport them all.
    I've never seen that one before, do you have a source for that as well? That would seem to directly conflict with "no amnesty".

    The trumpettes and shylls are grasping at straws to oppose how Ron Paul's immigration policies differ from those of their Authoritarian Idol. Any policy differences should be readily documented as being actual and factual policy positions.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    That would already be covered under no walling our country in


    Already covered under no biometrics


    I've never seen that stated as an actual policy goal. Do you have a source to support that?


    That isn't a policy position, that's a viewpoint.


    I've never seen that one before, do you have a source for that as well? That would seem to directly conflict with "no amnesty".

    The trumpettes and shylls are grasping at straws to oppose how Ron Paul's immigration policies differ from those of their Authoritarian Idol. Any policy differences should be readily documented as being actual and factual policy positions.
    I provided links with documentation for each point quoting Ron Paul, often from his book Liberty Defined, but also from other speeches, writings, and debates.

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Since Trump has been in office, has Ron Paul had anything positive to say about any of his immigration restrictionist policies or promises? We can all find plenty of negative things he has to say about them. Is there anything Trump has done in this regard that Ron Paul actually likes?
    I've seen dozens of liberty reports where he comments positively on Trumps policy but leverages it to promote his message. He does this about everything and everyone he talks about. Ron Paul doesn't care much about everyday media events he just uses the themes to promote liberty so that the ideas live on he plants those seeds in as many peoples heads as possible. Ron Paul deals in ideas and not influencing policy or politics. If you want to see his purposed policies if he was president you would just have to look at his presidential campaign's platform. That platform he ran on is the approach he would take as president.

  14. #222
    Originally Posted by invisible

    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *No walling our country in


    He may oppose the wall now but that is irrelevant to his position in 2007, he voted for the secure fence act.


    Originally Posted by invisible

    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship



    The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.




    Originally Posted by invisible

    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *Attempting to wall our country in


    Hype.
    And Ron voted for the Secure Fence act whether he changed his mind later or not.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *No significant attempts to end welfare


    WRONG.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps


    LIES.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #223
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:















    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I provided links with documentation for each point quoting Ron Paul, often from his book Liberty Defined, but also from other speeches, writings, and debates.
    Fantastic book, btw, I still look it over from time to time. The only book I have not read yet is Swords into Plowshares, I have been meaning to pick up a copy.
    ďThe right to life is the source of all rightsóand the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.Ē

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  18. #225
    And Ron voted for the Secure Fence act whether he changed his mind later or not.
    Ron said he was actually against that fence but he supported other immigration provisions in the law so he voted for it anyways. As you know since we have pointed it out to you many times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We would be much better off if Republicans had had the instincts to be immigration hawks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron said he was actually against that fence but he supported other immigration provisions in the law so he voted for it anyways. As you know since we have pointed it out to you many times.
    He must not have minded it much or he would have voted NO, he was famous for voting NO.

    It sounds like he had a position on the wall similar to mine back then.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #227
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
















    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #228
    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    *No biometrics
    *No walling our country in
    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
    *End welfare entirely
    *No abuse of prisoners in US custody


    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded use of biometrics
    *Increased government spying
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
    *Attempting to wall our country in
    *No significant attempts to end welfare
    *Offered welfare to immigrants
    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
    *Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

    This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
    If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron said he was actually against that fence but he supported other immigration provisions in the law so he voted for it anyways. As you know since we have pointed it out to you many times.
    At this point, it's obvious that that poster isn't willing to have any sort of honest discussion, since he simply ignores any response and continues his shylling attempt to equate Ron Paul's immigration policy with trump's immigration policy

    Meanwhile, having lost in court, trump will simply step around the law to continue his official policy of abusing people in concentration camps.
    http://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/in...e-flu-epidemic
    On the U.S. border with Mexico, Customs and Border Protection said it will not vaccinate migrant families ahead of the upcoming flu season. Doctors recently sent a letter to lawmakers urging them to investigate health conditions at migrant jails along the border after they say at least three children have died from the flu.
    The suit says the dire conditions inside the migrant jails amount to torture, and highlights the mistreatment of people with disabilities.
    Meanwhile, a joint investigation by the Associated Press and PBS’s “Frontline” reveals that dozens of families who were separated at the southern border are getting ready to sue the government over claims that young children were sexually, physically and emotionally abused while in federally funded foster care.
    http://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/in...ing-detentions
    The Donald Trump administration has announced new rules allowing authorities to detain migrant children for longer and in potentially even more dangerous conditions.

    The White House has terminated the 1997 Flores agreement
    The immigrant rights and legal services organization RAICES called the expected move “cruel beyond imagination.” Human rights organizations are condemning the Trump administration for the inhumane treatment of children.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You miss the entire point of this thread.

    We can argue about whether Ron was right to change his position elsewhere, this thread is to prove that those of us who still hold Ron's old position are NOT "evil statists who don't belong on Ron Paul Forums".
    You said yourself that you don't support a border wall...except for when you do.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You said yourself that you don't support a border wall...except for when you do.
    I said I would do something else if I had the power but I accept it as the best we can get.
    It's very similar to Ron's position when he voted for the Secure Fence Act even though he didn't want the wall because it had other border security provisions that were needed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    *No biometrics
    *No walling our country in
    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
    *End welfare entirely
    *No abuse of prisoners in US custody


    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded use of biometrics
    *Increased government spying
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
    *Attempting to wall our country in
    *No significant attempts to end welfare
    *Offered welfare to immigrants
    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
    *Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

    This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
    If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.



    At this point, it's obvious that that poster isn't willing to have any sort of honest discussion, since he simply ignores any response and continues his shylling attempt to equate Ron Paul's immigration policy with trump's immigration policy

    Meanwhile, having lost in court, trump will simply step around the law to continue his official policy of abusing people in concentration camps.
    http://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/in...e-flu-epidemic



    http://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/in...ing-detentions
    Liberal lies and distortions.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #232
    Originally Posted by invisible

    It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

    And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
    *No government spying
    *No "papers, please" mentality
    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *No walling our country in




    He may oppose the wall now but that is irrelevant to his position in 2007, he voted for the secure fence act.


    Originally Posted by invisible

    *Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship





    The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.




    Originally Posted by invisible

    It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
    *Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality




    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *Attempting to wall our country in




    Hype.
    And Ron voted for the Secure Fence act whether he changed his mind later or not.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *No significant attempts to end welfare




    WRONG.

    Originally Posted by invisible

    *Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps




    LIES.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  27. #233
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

















    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.



















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

















    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.



















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
    I was a volunteer worker for the 2012 campaign. I spend several weeks in IA & NH doing in house polling and gotv work once we'd identified supporters. We'd survey voters with a survey set up to both 1) see who they were supporting 2) find out their top issues. We'd then mail pamphlets to them stating Ron's positions on the issue they said was most crucial to them.

    These pamphlets were designed to be somewhat vague. The literature was simplified, bullet-pointed, and designed to be broadly interpreted so that it could mean different things to different people but without being disloyal to Paul's actual viewpoint. Politics, right?

    This post you keep bumping looks much like the 2012 one we'd mail out of the caller said his most important issue was immigration. I know it was on his 2008 campaign website from your link, but I'm sure its presentation was designed with the same intention.

    You and I have different viewpoints on immigration. You read that, and cheer that RP's viewpoint backs what you think. I read that and I too think RP's viewpoint backs what I think. It's designed that way. It's called electioneering, campaigning etc...
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I was a volunteer worker for the 2012 campaign. I spend several weeks in IA & NH doing in house polling and gotv work once we'd identified supporters. We'd survey voters with a survey set up to both 1) see who they were supporting 2) find out their top issues. We'd then mail pamphlets to them stating Ron's positions on the issue they said was most crucial to them.

    These pamphlets were designed to be somewhat vague. The literature was simplified, bullet-pointed, and designed to be broadly interpreted so that it could mean different things to different people but without being disloyal to Paul's actual viewpoint. Politics, right?

    This post you keep bumping looks much like the 2012 one we'd mail out of the caller said his most important issue was immigration. I know it was on his 2008 campaign website from your link, but I'm sure its presentation was designed with the same intention.

    You and I have different viewpoints on immigration. You read that, and cheer that RP's viewpoint backs what you think. I read that and I too think RP's viewpoint backs what I think. It's designed that way. It's called electioneering, campaigning etc...
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tfurrh again."

    When you read those bullet points, it's just as important to notice the things they don't say as it is to notice the things they do.

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I was a volunteer worker for the 2012 campaign. I spend several weeks in IA & NH doing in house polling and gotv work once we'd identified supporters. We'd survey voters with a survey set up to both 1) see who they were supporting 2) find out their top issues. We'd then mail pamphlets to them stating Ron's positions on the issue they said was most crucial to them.

    These pamphlets were designed to be somewhat vague. The literature was simplified, bullet-pointed, and designed to be broadly interpreted so that it could mean different things to different people but without being disloyal to Paul's actual viewpoint. Politics, right?

    This post you keep bumping looks much like the 2012 one we'd mail out of the caller said his most important issue was immigration. I know it was on his 2008 campaign website from your link, but I'm sure its presentation was designed with the same intention.

    You and I have different viewpoints on immigration. You read that, and cheer that RP's viewpoint backs what you think. I read that and I too think RP's viewpoint backs what I think. It's designed that way. It's called electioneering, campaigning etc...
    You're making an anecdotal claim here, unless you Ron's 'bullet points' that mean different things to different,
    unless you have a copy in front of you and can show it here.

    Ron Paul was/is not for open borders , neither was Milton Freidman though many like to lay false claims
    about them both (not accusing you, just saying) /

    And you and Perf , well know that open borders works nowhere in the world, which doesn't mean
    we should let the invasion continue and assume a positive outcome.

  31. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    You're making an anecdotal claim here, unless you Ron's 'bullet points' that mean different things to different,
    unless you have a copy in front of you and can show it here.

    Ron Paul was/is not for open borders , neither was Milton Freidman though many like to lay false claims
    about them both (not accusing you, just saying) /

    And you and Perf , well know that open borders works nowhere in the world, which doesn't mean
    we should let the invasion continue and assume a positive outcome.
    Edit. I found the border security one.



    For comparison here's the foreign policy one:




    Does this extensively cover Ron's foreign policy? God no. In fact, it's deceptively simplified

    And I never said ever that I was a wide open border guy.... although I do agree with RP's position from 2007
    Last edited by tfurrh; 08-25-2019 at 03:51 PM.
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  32. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I looked for the border security one....all I could find was the foreign policy one.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4146405



    Does this extensively cover Ron's foreign policy? God no.

    And I never said ever that I was a wide open border guy.... although I do agree with RP's position from 2007
    'sending our troops to battle without a clear mission' , he should have said 'declared war' , so yea that's a bit
    of a mixed msg, I'm sure Obama and the Bushes could argue that they had 'clear missions' ..

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    I was a volunteer worker for the 2012 campaign. I spend several weeks in IA & NH doing in house polling and gotv work once we'd identified supporters. We'd survey voters with a survey set up to both 1) see who they were supporting 2) find out their top issues. We'd then mail pamphlets to them stating Ron's positions on the issue they said was most crucial to them.

    These pamphlets were designed to be somewhat vague. The literature was simplified, bullet-pointed, and designed to be broadly interpreted so that it could mean different things to different people but without being disloyal to Paul's actual viewpoint. Politics, right?

    This post you keep bumping looks much like the 2012 one we'd mail out of the caller said his most important issue was immigration. I know it was on his 2008 campaign website from your link, but I'm sure its presentation was designed with the same intention.

    You and I have different viewpoints on immigration. You read that, and cheer that RP's viewpoint backs what you think. I read that and I too think RP's viewpoint backs what I think. It's designed that way. It's called electioneering, campaigning etc...
    You may be correct.

    The whole point of this thread is that those of us who share my views or similar views are legitimate Ron Paul supporters and have a right to be here and express our opinions.

    I am sick and tired of being told I'm an "evil statist" who doesn't belong here and so are many of the others.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #240
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:


















    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.




















    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





    "I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007





    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country


    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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