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Thread: Tulsi Gabbard’s Military Nonsense

  1. #1

    Tulsi Gabbard’s Military Nonsense

    Ron Paul Institute
    Written by Adam Dick
    Sunday August 4, 2019


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    Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI), in a Thursday interview with host Chris Cuomo at CNN, reacted to criticism from fellow Democratic presidential candidate Sen Kamala Harris (D-CA), after the candidates’ dust-up in a debate the day before, by stating, "the only response that I have heard her and her campaign give is to push out smear attacks on me, claim that I am somehow some kind of foreign agent or a traitor to my country, the country that I love, the country that I put my life on the line to serve, the country that I still serve today as a soldier in the Army National Guard."

    This statement from Gabbard is nonsense. Soldiers serving in the National Guard and other parts of the United States military in military interventions as has Gabbard are not serving their country. They are serving the exertion of power by the US government. Indeed, Gabbard in the interview expresses her opposition to the sending of the US military members “to fight in these wasteful, counterproductive regime change wars.”

    So, while Gabbard disparages a list of the US government’s military interventions overseas, she has nothing but praise for the carrying out of those wars by military members. In the interview she calls military members her “fellow brothers and sisters in uniform.” She set this tone clearly in her February speech announcing her campaign. Gabbard then proclaimed:



    And our men and women in uniform, generation after generation, motivated by love for one another and for our country, have been willing to sacrifice everything for us. They don’t just raise their hand and volunteer to serve only to fight for one religion but not another, to fight for people of one race but not another, people of one political party but not another. No. When we raise our right hand and volunteer to serve, we set aside our own interests to serve our country, to fight for all Americans.

    We serve as one, indivisible, united, unbreakable — united by this bond of love for each other and love for our country. It is this principle of service above self that is at the heart of every soldier, at the heart of every service member, and it is in this spirit that today I announce my candidacy for president of the United States of America.



    What a load of hooey.

    Gabbard had a special position for some of her time in the military including when she was deployed to Iraq during the Iraq War — being employed in a medical group. Ron Paul, another US House of Representatives member who ran for president years before, has explained a reason he chose to become a doctor was that he knew he could be drafted into the military and wanted to avoid being tasked with killing people. Medical workers in the military can even find themselves tasked with helping sick and injured civilians where the US is at war and even opposition fighters. Such actions, sometimes undertaken by military medical workers not supportive of the war, were well presented in the television series MASH that took place during the Korean War.

    In calling herself a soldier to defend her patriotism bona fides and frequently referencing her “brothers and sisters in uniform,” Gabbard is obscuring any distinction between certain medical roles in the military she has had and the more common role of advancing killing and destruction.

    There can be reason to praise the providing of medical serviced by US military members in conflicts overseas, especially when those services are readily provided to the victims of and opponents of the US government’s intervention in addition to the people implementing the intervention. But, where Gabbard crosses the line into nonsense is in heaping adulation on the people who operate the killing machine loosed abroad by the US government.

    Some of the military people operating the killing machine are duped or ignorant, in need of education. Some want out but, unlike workers in most other occupations, are not allowed to quit their jobs. Others are far less sympathetic. But, contrary to Gabbard’s characterization, none of them are serving their country or putting their lives on the line for their country. They may be fighting for Boeing, Raytheon, a president’s quest for a legacy, an officer’s desire for a promotion, or a number of other purposes, but they are not fighting for their country. Their country, as Gabbard has pointed out in regard to some overseas military interventions, would be better off if they were never deployed.


    http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...tary-nonsense/
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  3. #2
    I am the most antiwar, paleoconservative person out there, always have been...

    However, this article by Adam Dick is insulting to veterans.

    If he were to go about saying this to veterans, who deserve better leadership,
    he wouldn't be out of the hospital for long.

    It has never been the duty of the armed forces to determine policy.

    Ron Paul Institute should not have published this inflammatory opinion.
    I don't think Ron would like it, either.
    Last edited by Snowball; 08-05-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I am the most antiwar, paleoconservative person out there, always have been...

    However, this article by Adam Dick is insulting to veterans.

    If he were to go about saying this to veterans, who deserve better leadership,
    he wouldn't be out of the hospital for long.

    It has never been the duty of the armed forces to determine policy.

    Ron Paul Institute should not have published this inflammatory opinion.
    I don't think Ron would like it, either.
    Snowball, I read the article 2 additional times to see where the article bothers you, but not able to see it. Can you point out the specific area or quote?

    More than half of my family and most of my high school friends joined the military. Nowadays in my area, many of the kids who join have an option: 1. If I see your face one more time in this court room you are going to jail, 2. join the military. I also know first hand that while some actually believe they are fighting for our freedom and join for legitimate reasons, many of the kids in my area join simply because they have a an abusive tuff-guy mentality and look very forward to the opportunity to kick some ass, no matter what the reason.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Snowball, I read the article 2 additional times to see where the article bothers you, but not able to see it. Can you point out the specific area or quote?

    More than half of my family and most of my high school friends joined the military. Nowadays in my area, many of the kids who join have an option: 1. If I see your face one more time in this court room you are going to jail, 2. join the military. I also know first hand that while some actually believe they are fighting for our freedom and join for legitimate reasons, many of the kids in my area join simply because they have a an abusive tuff-guy mentality and look very forward to the opportunity to kick some ass, no matter what the reason.
    The article is a load of unmitigated bullcrap, and totally uncalled for, especially considering Gabbard's positions against these wars.
    She expresses this exceptionally well, and her basic patriotism does not deserve to be insulted. She is an ally of the antiwar, anti-MIC
    anti-corruption American. Her service in a medical field unit coming out of Mortaritaville is not a joke. She has every right to refer to members of the Armed Forces as her "brothers and sisters". It is not "a load of hooey", it is not "nonsense", and his points, which Gabbard ironically agrees with, do not belong in this hit piece - fact is, she's a Democrat, and that's the only reason why he's upset. There are very few veterans of her generation that are speaking out and doing something about it, like she is.

    The article is utter trash. It is poorly written, ill-conceived, and without integrity.
    Last edited by Snowball; 08-05-2019 at 09:29 AM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Nowadays in my area, many of the kids who join have an option: 1. If I see your face one more time in this court room you are going to jail, 2. join the military. I also know first hand that while some actually believe they are fighting for our freedom and join for legitimate reasons, many of the kids in my area join simply because they have a an abusive tuff-guy mentality and look very forward to the opportunity to kick some ass, no matter what the reason.
    You do have a tendency to generalize people as much as anyone else. I notice your above generalization is similar to your standard MSM generalization of immigrants being hardworking, business owners.

    Just an observation. We all see, process, and generalize based on our learning and thought patterns.

  7. #6
    I was upset enough by this article to contact RPI and let them know, is this is how they want to be perceived ?
    The Institute that bears the name of Ron Paul should not sink this low in its content.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    You do have a tendency to generalize people as much as anyone else. I notice your above generalization is similar to your standard MSM generalization of immigrants being hardworking, business owners.

    Just an observation. We all see, process, and generalize based on our learning and thought patterns.
    Which is the very reason why I support Individualism over nationalism, local over state, and state over Fed - the way our system was intended.

    What I learn and experience in my locale is different than say, California, or Alaska. "Common Core" needs to END - this coming from one who travels very extensively.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Which is the very reason why I support Individualism over nationalism, local over state, and state over Fed - the way our system was intended.

    What I learn and experience in my locale is different than say, California, or Alaska. "Common Core" needs to END - this coming from one who travels very extensively.
    That's fine, but I just wanted to make sure that you are aware of your own generalizations. Carry on.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I was upset enough by this article to contact RPI and let them know, is this is how they want to be perceived ?
    The Institute that bears the name of Ron Paul should not sink this low in its content.

    This might help:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ion-s-Ron-Paul

    and

    Cumulative Freedom Index Score: 30%

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/index...nameid=G000571
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I was upset enough by this article to contact RPI and let them know, is this is how they want to be perceived ?
    The Institute that bears the name of Ron Paul should not sink this low in its content.
    Yeah, I’d have to agree this article was ill conceived. The point trying to be made is that most military intervention is not for the good of the country. It’s for the good of select special interests, and often to the detriment of the country as a whole, if for no other reason than the waste of US blood and money.

    Where the article goes wrong is that it lumps all military members into a generalization that they fully support these wars and interventions, or that they are idiots. Considering how much support Ron Paul had from the military, this is not a generalization that should be made. There are obviously many individuals in the military that do not support unjustified war. Ron Paul himself often talked about this, and his military supporters. This article would only serve to alienate them.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    I think people need to remember this guy, Captain Ron Paul a flight surgeon for the air force.

    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yeah, I’d have to agree this article was ill conceived. The point trying to be made is that most military intervention is not for the good of the country. It’s for the good of select special interests, and often to the detriment of the country as a whole, if for no other reason than the waste of US blood and money.

    Where the article goes wrong is that it lumps all military members into a generalization that they fully support these wars and interventions, or that they are idiots. Considering how much support Ron Paul had from the military, this is not a generalization that should be made. There are obviously many individuals in the military that do not support unjustified war. Ron Paul himself often talked about this, and his military supporters. This article would only serve to alienate them.

    They join. They go. Without question. Or referring to and defending our very Constitution. Against enemies both foreign AND domestic. Those are choices that each individual makes. Yet they are still "over there". As innocent people CONTINUE to die.

    The founders never intended for a standing army. Perhaps we should be discussing that.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  15. #13
    Not an article I would even bother to finish reading . Written by a guy named Dick with limited knowledge about a hawaiin national guard soldier nobody cares about . Real Clear politics Aug 02 poll of politico/morning consult shows Bootyjudge at 6 percent , orourke 3 , booker 3 , Yang 2 , Castro 1 , gabbard 1 . Biden & Bernie on top with a combined 50 percent . Same time period Harvard / Harris poll about the same with gabbard at 0 .
    Last edited by oyarde; 08-05-2019 at 10:35 AM.
    Do something Danke

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    They join. They go. Without question. Or referring to and defending our very Constitution. Against enemies both foreign AND domestic. Those are choices that each individual makes. Yet they are still "over there". As innocent people CONTINUE to die.

    The founders never intended for a standing army. Perhaps we should be discussing that.
    Yes, they did. I'm not advocating for it, because I'm not an Americanist, but the Continental Army
    was indeed conceived as a standing army and supported very early. If you don't believe me, read
    A History of the United States Army by Russell F. Weigley.

  17. #15
    Perhaps it would be beneficial to put aside the "wedge issues/left-right paradigm' and focus more on what the other hand is doing.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Yes, they did. I'm not advocating for it, because I'm not an Americanist, but the Continental Army
    was indeed conceived as a standing army and supported very early. If you don't believe me, read
    A History of the United States Army by Russell F. Weigley.
    Good read + REP

    And also, "War Is A Racket" by Smedley Butler.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Perhaps it would be beneficial to put aside the "wedge issues/left-right paradigm' and focus more on what the other hand is doing.
    Bingo.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Bingo.
    We are in agreement on the issue, it's just the character of the article that is problematic.

    cheers

  22. #19
    Terrible hypocrisy, shameful this is allowed on the RPI website. Ron Paul routinely touted his military service and forcefully defended his foreign policy positions as criticizing the leaders in Washington, not the service members ordered to carry it out.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Terrible hypocrisy, shameful this is allowed on the RPI website. Ron Paul routinely touted his military service and forcefully defended his foreign policy positions as criticizing the leaders in Washington, not the service members ordered to carry it out.
    Click the contact form on RPI and let them know like I did.
    Adam Dick denigrated the value of Ron Paul's service also,
    and all veterans.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yeah, I’d have to agree this article was ill conceived. The point trying to be made is that most military intervention is not for the good of the country. It’s for the good of select special interests, and often to the detriment of the country as a whole, if for no other reason than the waste of US blood and money.

    Where the article goes wrong is that it lumps all military members into a generalization that they fully support these wars and interventions, or that they are idiots. Considering how much support Ron Paul had from the military, this is not a generalization that should be made. There are obviously many individuals in the military that do not support unjustified war. Ron Paul himself often talked about this, and his military supporters. This article would only serve to alienate them.
    Leftarians are taking over RPI, it's a real shame.

    They aren't content with shilling for the communist invasion and now they are indirectly spitting on Ron himself.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The founders never intended for a standing army. Perhaps we should be discussing that.
    Many of them did and they were right, you need a standing army to be the backbone of your forces and to train the militia.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    and now they are indirectly spitting on Ron himself.

    I felt like something was really off by this article but shrugged it off simply because it was RPI and was more or less sanctioned by RP himself, but some of the posts below confirmed my instinct.

    What in the actual F is going on at RPI....
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    What in the actual F is going on at RPI....
    A leftarian/anarcho-communist takeover.

    The LP has gone full retard and is embracing open borders, abortion and now it seems they want to add spitting on the patriots in the military.

    Leftists (including leftarians) are a plague and never should have been treated as anything but allies of convenience, anti-war is not enough, leftists never change:

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    ^^^ well then the actual anarcho-communists need to be named and rooted out, if they exist.

    I think its just some desperate libertarians though...
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  30. #26
    ^^^ well then the actual anarcho-communists need to be named and rooted out, if they exist.

    I think its just some desperate libertarians though...

    But if you're so desperate that you will throw Ron under the bus to jab Tulsi, you're not RPI or even libertarian material. Very likely to be new-age libertarians that have zero understanding of the foundation of the rLOVEution.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The founders never intended for a standing army. Perhaps we should be discussing that.
    That might be true, but after America entered WW1, that intention could never be honored.

    I still like Ron Paul's idea of just of having a dozen nuclear armed submarines prowling the oceans, and close every base and withdraw every stationed troop that is currently abroad. As he said no nation would ever directly strike America with those subs out there. We could probably go down to 4 aircarft carriers as well. Start spending money on other things or not at all to cut down the crazy budget/debt.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Terrible hypocrisy, shameful this is allowed on the RPI website. Ron Paul routinely touted his military service and forcefully defended his foreign policy positions as criticizing the leaders in Washington, not the service members ordered to carry it out.
    Dr. Paul has seems to have always had more of a hands off approach to things being published on his mediums. I guess he cares more about diversity of opinion than he does about his reputation. It is what it is.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 08-05-2019 at 08:20 PM.

  33. #29
    Whatever. Seems folks are FAR more critical of RPI's 1st Amendment opinions, while giving NY Lib Trump passes galore (let's wait and see what trump does).

    Gotta support those troops ya know!
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Whatever. Seems folks are FAR more critical of RPI's 1st Amendment opinions, while giving NY Lib Trump passes galore (let's wait and see what trump does).
    Trump was never one of us, RPI is supposed to be.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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