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Thread: Socialism Sucks: Two Economists Drink Their Way Through An Unfree World

  1. #1

    Socialism Sucks: Two Economists Drink Their Way Through An Unfree World

    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  3. #2
    "Trump ruined it for us"

    Outstanding episode and well worth the listen.

    Like Ron Paul, Justin, and others, is Tom Woods even welcome here these days?

    @Swordsmyth since you do not care so much for the site mission, perhaps start here for Liberty Basics 101. Don't fret, it is kindergarten level so pretty easy to understand, maybe in a year or so you will begin to understand ;-)
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  4. #3
    Thanks for posting this Chief. I luv me some TWoods.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    "Trump ruined it for us"

    Outstanding episode and well worth the listen.

    Like Ron Paul, Justin, and others, is Tom Woods even welcome here these days?

    @Swordsmyth since you do not care so much for the site mission, perhaps start here for Liberty Basics 101. Don't fret, it is kindergarten level so pretty easy to understand, maybe in a year or so you will begin to understand ;-)
    Love Tom Woods - always have. That character Bob Murphy aint to shabby either

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  6. #5
    Trump throwing the deep state all in prison for their crimes is not "ruining everything". It is the opposite.

    Tom Woods is really good on arguing policy and such though.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump throwing the deep state all in prison for their crimes is not "ruining everything". It is the opposite.

    Tom Woods is really good on arguing policy and such though.


    This OP Episode is def way outstanding and gets better and better the more they get into it :-)

    Nah... trump tosses bones once in a while to keep the base coming back for more - nothing he does is for liberty or the Free Market.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  8. #7
    Great video.

    Here's a write up on the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    With the hot-button word “socialism” sparking intense political debate as Americans brace for the 2020 presidential election, two U.S. economists have completed a global drinking tour – and a book already at the top of Amazon's "beer" category – warning that the socialist lure could lead to a drastic dry-up of the country’s adult beverages.

    “Socialism Sucks: Two Economists Drink Their Way Through the Unfree World,” by Robert Lawson and Benjamin Powell, is billed as a “worldwide tour guide written in plain English” which takes readers on a not-so-luxurious expedition into three countries that have embraced socialism – North Korea, Venezuela, and Cuba – using beer as an indicator of economic concern.

    “In Cuba, there were only two types of beer, almost the same in alcohol content and both tasted like skunky Budweiser. In North Korea, it was just god awful,” Lawson, who is also the director of the William J. O’Neil Center for Global Markets and Freedom at Southern Methodist University, told Fox News. “And, in Venezuela, the country has basically run out of beer because the government planners couldn’t import enough barley.”

    In Lawson’s summation, why would employees of a government-controlled plant bother to go out of their way to seek out the resources, extra cost and energy to produce 30 different types of beer or wine when it is easy to make two, and there is no incentive otherwise to excel?

    “We were on the border of Colombia and Venezuela, and the Colombian side was awash with all kinds of beer. On the other side, Venezuela had nothing for sale and people had to cross into Colombia just to get the basic necessities,” said Powell, who is also the director of the Free Market Institute and a professor of economics at Texas Tech University. “It’s an important lesson for ‘Democratic Socialists’ in the U.S. to remember that (Hugo) Chavez came to power in free and fair elections, but socialism centralizes economic power and the system starts nationalizing farms, factories, even hotels. When oil prices were $100 a barrel, Venezuela could mask the dysfunction, but as oil prices went down over the last five years, they couldn’t hide the reality.”

    Subsequently, the authors contended, socialism often has opened the floodgates to totalitarianism – as was the case this year in Caracas when Nicolás Maduro was re-elected via a “sham” contest of political oppression and refused to concede to the U.S-backed opposition leader Juan Guaidó.

    The book, which is slated to hit shelves Tuesday in the hours before the second round of debates among the 2020 Democrats, was born out of the 2016 presidential campaign after the authors took issue with candidate Bernie Sanders using the label to “attract people to the cause.” In their view, he and other pro-socialist leaders have been spreading misinformation.

    “We wanted to clear up what the definition of socialism really is; (Sanders) points to Denmark, Sweden, Norway. While they aren’t free market and have high taxes, they are market-orientated and aren’t real socialist countries,” Lawson conjectured. “And, China is fake socialism, it has made a lot of reform when it comes to personal property rights. It’s crony capitalism, but that is a hell of a lot better than socialism.”

    Nonetheless, Lawson also observed that even in a country like Sweden – often cited as a shining example of socialism – beer is widely available, but the cost is typically very high.

    However, it is not all doom and gloom.

    The authors also took their boozing into former Soviet Union countries to document their “progress” since they parted ways with such an economic model in recent decades.

    “Our last trip was to the country of Georgia, and basically that was a socialist as it gets. But, it is now one of the highest countries in economic freedom,” quipped Powell. “And, using alcohol as our economic measure – when Georgia was under the USSR and their wine industry was under Soviet control, it was a disaster. Now, it’s a wine mecca, produces really unique wines that don’t exist anywhere else in the world, and it's where wine snobs from across the globe now go to taste.”

    ...

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bee...lures-new-book
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    At the 18:24 mark, fascinating discussion of ex-Soviet Georgia. This is what needs to happen in the US!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Great video.

    “Our last trip was to the country of Georgia, and basically that was a socialist as it gets. But, it is now one of the highest countries in economic freedom,” quipped Powell. “And, using alcohol as our economic measure – when Georgia was under the USSR and their wine industry was under Soviet control, it was a disaster. Now, it’s a wine mecca, produces really unique wines that don’t exist anywhere else in the world, and it's where wine snobs from across the globe now go to taste.”

    Georgia's Economic Freedom Index, now ranked in the top 10, well surpassed the United States. I thought that was pretty incredible.

    Perhaps I will be a wine snob and check it out someday, but only if they have hot-wings extra-crispy, extra-sauce ;-)


    Wait.... he FIRED all of the government employees. That means he did NOT hire or entertain MORE government/government lobbyists, ICE, DHS, TSA, et al... or build a costly useless wall around the country of Georgia.

    Interesting.

    Very.

    Huh.
    Last edited by PAF; 08-01-2019 at 10:49 AM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    This OP Episode is def way outstanding and gets better and better the more they get into it :-)

    Nah... trump tosses bones once in a while to keep the base coming back for more - nothing he does is for liberty or the Free Market.
    Sorry, that doesn't make ANY sense.

    Libertarian candidates typically get 1-2% of the vote.

    Why the $#@! would Trump be interested in "throwing a bone" to libertarians? His "base"?? You're saying his "base" is the same 1-2% who vote for other libertarian candidates??
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    At the 18:24 mark, fascinating discussion of ex-Soviet Georgia. This is what needs to happen in the US!
    It could work, here in the United States, but this U.S. Empire is far too large. The only way that it could work is to move toward Anarcho-Capitalism, and form smaller states among the states, which is explained in detail here:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...cho-Capitalism

    However, this will not be well received here on these forums, as of late. It seems that some prefer to work within the 2-party duopoly, and continue to give it the support that it wants. Because, well, they are so well-conditioned and "it is the right thing to do".
    Last edited by PAF; 08-01-2019 at 12:12 PM.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    "Trump ruined it for us"

    Outstanding episode and well worth the listen.

    Like Ron Paul, Justin, and others, is Tom Woods even welcome here these days?

    @Swordsmyth since you do not care so much for the site mission, perhaps start here for Liberty Basics 101. Don't fret, it is kindergarten level so pretty easy to understand, maybe in a year or so you will begin to understand ;-)
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    It could work, here in the United States, but this U.S. Empire is far too large. The only way that it could work is to move toward Anarcho-Capitalism, and form smaller states among the states, which is explained in detail here:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...cho-Capitalism

    However, this will not be well received here on these forums, as of late. It seems that some prefer to work within the 2-party duopoly, and continue to give it the support that it wants. Because, well, they are so well-conditioned and "it is the right thing to do".
    The forum is not a hive mind with a single point of view. Constant complaints about the forum being this or that get very old.

    As far as Thomas Woods being welcome, his content is always welcome. And the people who have attacked Woods are from the anti-Trump camp.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 08-01-2019 at 03:02 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The forum is not a hive mind with a single point of view. Constant complaints about the forum being this or that get very old.

    As far as Thomas Woods being welcome, his content is always welcome. And the people who have attacked Woods are from the anti-Trump camp.
    "Trump ruined it for us"
    I did not say that. It was in the video. I just happened to agree with it.

    Did you listen to the video in its entirety?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I did not say that. It was in the video. I just happened to agree with it.

    Did you listen to the video in its entirety?
    I did not highlight “Trump ruined it for us”. That was highlighted by you in your post that I quoted. I was not commenting on that line.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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