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Thread: Why Walls Won’t Secure The Border

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nature is full of packs and herds.
    Excellent point.



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nature is full of packs and herds.
    And corporations....corporations are people too
    "It's probably the biggest hoax since Big Foot!" - Mitt Romney 1-16-2012 SC Debate

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    EVERYTHING


    IN PUBLIC SCHOOL IS A LIE OR PROPAGANDA- LET THAT SINK IN.
    I don't disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    YES.

    And it is all on the side of excessive and uncontrolled immigration.

    LET THAT SINK IN.
    ^he got my point.

    If you're standing on the same side of TPTB, even for different reasons, does it really matter how noble your intentions are if the outcome is the same?

    I firmly believe TPTB DO NOT want this wall, or anything that will cut off the flow of reinforcements for their cause. If their master plan is to build a giant cage to box us all in, they are WELL within their capabilities to do so and would have done so by now. If that's the plan, they're surely dragging their g-d damned feet about it—so I cannot, at this point, believe that is the end-game.

    Now, libertarians do not want this wall, for libertarian reasons, though, that doesn't really matter in the end. TPTB welcome your support all the same.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 08-03-2019 at 02:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  5. #184
    Walls can't even secure a Maximum Security Prison..

    And I don't want to live in a Walled Prison again.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I don't disagree.


    ^he got my point.

    If you're standing on the same side of TPTB, even for different reasons, does it really matter how noble your intentions are if the outcome is the same?

    I firmly believe TPTB DO NOT want this wall, or anything that will cut off the flow of reinforcements for their cause. If their master plan is to build a giant cage to box us all in, they are WELL within their capabilities to do so and would have done so by now. If that's the plan, they're surely dragging their g-d damned feet about it—so I cannot, at this point, believe that is the end-game.

    Now, libertarians do not want this wall, for libertarian reasons, though, that doesn't really matter in the end. TPTB welcome your support all the same.
    Ron Paul opposes the wall. Any argument in support of the wall, even this one, is just more direct opposition to Ron Paul.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Ron Paul opposes the wall. Any argument in support of the wall, even this one, is just more direct opposition to Ron Paul.
    When they put us on reservations, I want first pick of a casino spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    That's easy to solve, pay for it by cutting welfare spending.

    SNAP handouts alone came to over $70 billion last year.

    That would build a lotta wall.
    I'm sure the liberty-loving Americans will cut their own welfare benefits right after the wall is built.

    Course, in the past they've always voted to increase their welfare benefits.

    But that was the lack of the wall, I suppose; "I hate socialism, but, then again, there's no wall. Socialism it is!"

    Yessir, build that wall and the welfare state shall crumble.

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I'm sure the liberty-loving Americans will cut their own welfare benefits right after the wall is built.

    Course, in the past they've always voted to increase their welfare benefits.

    But that was the lack of the wall, I suppose; "I hate socialism, but, then again, there's no wall. Socialism it is!"

    Yessir, build that wall and the welfare state shall crumble.
    The wall will prevent it from becoming worse and many Americans do vote to get rid of it, Trump just moved to dump 3Million people off.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The wall will prevent it from becoming worse and many Americans do vote to get rid of it, Trump just moved to dump 3Million people off.
    If the wall does get built and all the immigrants do get deported, the silver lining will be watching the reaction from you people when essentially nothing changes and the welfare state (and every other aspect of the state) keeps growing (nevermind the part you'd have to have already grown to accomplish your glorious reforms), but then again I suppose you'd find some new excuse. Witches perhaps.

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If the wall does get built and all the immigrants do get deported, the silver lining will be watching the reaction from you people when essentially nothing changes and the welfare state (and every other aspect of the state) keeps growing (nevermind the part you'd have to have already grown to accomplish your glorious reforms), but then again I suppose you'd find some new excuse. Witches perhaps.
    Getting to shove reality down your throat will be almost as glorious as the reforms we will enact once the communist invaders are removed but even if we don't move things backward we will stop them from going full retard commie like Mao's china, on the other hand it would almost be worth letting it happen in order to get to watch you twist and squirm trying to claim it would have happened anyway as the barbarians began the round ups and death camps.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #191
    This thread is still active...lol....it's hard to imagine a socialist wall built by corporate fascists generates any support at all from a "Liberty" forum.
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    This thread is still active...lol....it's hard to imagine a socialist wall built by corporate fascists generates any support at all from a "Liberty" forum.
    It doesn't. Those supporting such direct opposition to Ron Paul is simply astroturf, created by a small handful of propagandists and their sock puppets that have driven off most of the genuine Ron Paul supporters here. They even openly admit their agenda of force feeding this place, and how much they enjoy what they are paid to do:
    Getting to shove reality down your throat will be almost as glorious
    It's all about force for them, just about everything they say is about power and forcing someone to do something.

    barbarians began the round ups and death camps
    They even know how barbaric trump's policies of mass arrests and concentration camps for immigrants are, but they continue to shyll for their Authoritarian Idol, and outright refuse to denounce him. Instead they will simply attempt to paint anyone who opposes them as "socialists", which is nothing less than continuing to oppose and attack Ron Paul.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    It doesn't. Those supporting such direct opposition to Ron Paul is simply astroturf, created by a small handful of propagandists and their sock puppets that have driven off most of the genuine Ron Paul supporters here. They even openly admit their agenda of force feeding this place, and how much they enjoy what they are paid to do:

    It's all about force for them, just about everything they say is about power and forcing someone to do something.


    They even know how barbaric trump's policies of mass arrests and concentration camps for immigrants are, but they continue to shyll for their Authoritarian Idol, and outright refuse to denounce him. Instead they will simply attempt to paint anyone who opposes them as "socialists", which is nothing less than continuing to oppose and attack Ron Paul.

    Out of + REP so I owe you one.

    Follow the Money and one will see how most things are manufactured, and just who is actually profiting by it. The government credit card does not grow for nothing.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  17. #194
    Last edited by Warrior_of_Freedom; 08-05-2019 at 11:05 AM.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I'm sure the liberty-loving Americans will cut their own welfare benefits right after the wall is built.

    Course, in the past they've always voted to increase their welfare benefits.

    But that was the lack of the wall, I suppose; "I hate socialism, but, then again, there's no wall. Socialism it is!"

    Yessir, build that wall and the welfare state shall crumble.
    Well, isn't that the way to stop migrant invasion?

    Cutting out the handouts?
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, isn't that the way to stop migrant invasion?

    Cutting out the handouts?
    I'm all for cutting any handout at any time (for reasons unrelated to immigration).

    My point though is that the welfare state will keep growing regardless of immigration policy.

    As I was saying to SS earlier, you fellows will learn this hard lesson if you ever manage to get the immigration restrictions you desire.

  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    They know that. That's the intent.
    If TPTB want a wall, then why are they taking so long to build it?

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, isn't that the way to stop migrant invasion?

    Cutting out the handouts?
    Cutting off the flow of free stuff would certainly stop motivating them to break the law and sneak over the border

  22. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Cutting off the flow of free stuff would certainly stop motivating them to break the law and sneak over the border
    No it wouldn't. Just like it doesn't stop the rest of us from breaking the laws we break every day.

    Now repealing unjust laws might do something to increase respect for laws on the other hand.

  23. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    No it wouldn't. Just like it doesn't stop the rest of us from breaking the laws we break every day.

    Now repealing unjust laws might do something to increase respect for laws on the other hand.
    Without the promise of free stuff, why would they come? If theyre fleeing north from South American countries, why not go and stay in Mexico?
    Last edited by Son_of_Liberty90; 08-05-2019 at 01:09 PM.



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Without the promise of free stuff, why would they come? If theyre fleeing north from South American countries, why not go and stay in Mexico?
    Most come to work. I'm not sure how easy it is for foreigners to immigrate to and work in Mexico. I've heard it's more difficult. And I'm not sure how desirable that is compared to coming to America. But at least a considerable number of people consider America the preferable option.

    Eliminating welfare programs would do little to decrease incentive to immigrate here. In fact, I would expect the resulting economic boom to have the exact opposite effect.

  26. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    If TPTB want a wall, then why are they taking so long to build it?
    I said that the police state is the intent, not the wall.

    With each new bogeyman that they invent, the easily frightened and the true believers agree to give up a little more of their freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Most come to work. I'm not sure how easy it is for foreigners to immigrate to and work in Mexico. I've heard it's more difficult. And I'm not sure how desirable that is compared to coming to America. But at least a considerable number of people consider America the preferable option.

    Eliminating welfare programs would do little to decrease incentive to immigrate here. In fact, I would expect the resulting economic boom to have the exact opposite effect.
    Why cant they follow the law, learn English and immigrate legally like other naturalized immigrants? Its not easy and takes awhile, but its entirely doable.

  28. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Why cant they follow the law, learn English and immigrate legally like other naturalized immigrants? Its not easy and takes awhile, but its entirely doable.
    For most it's not doable over any time frame, which is why they don't.

    Would you support changing the law to lift limits on the numbers of people who can immigrate here from any country so that it would be possible for them to come legally?

    Also, I'm not sure why you referred to "naturalized" immigrants or to learning English. Neither naturalization nor language have any relevance to the discussion up to this point.

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Why cant they follow the law, learn English and immigrate legally like other naturalized immigrants? Its not easy and takes awhile, but its entirely doable.
    A very good question. Most of them do learn english, or at least try to. Living in an immigrant community, I see this everywhere. Many will apologize to me for their english not being perfect (or even good), or for not knowing a particular word for what they are trying to say. As a typical example, I was once introduced by someone I know to a group of their coworkers. I greeted them all in spanish, their eyes suddenly got real wide, and one of them asked if I spoke spanish. My response was "a little, and I want to learn". The conversation immediately switched from spanish to english, with each and every one of them talking about how they are also attempting to learn to speak english as a second language. They know very well that they will get further and be more successful in our country if they can speak english. Of course, in some places, it is possible to live your entire life without knowing a word of english (I can go about my everyday life for days, without hearing a word of english spoken, where I live), and there will always be some who don't bother to make the effort, these people are a small minority.

    Our broken immigration system has made it all but impossible to follow the law. When faced with wait times measured in years, being tracked and spied on, and being subjected to biometrics, our laws have made it much easier to simply hop the border or overstay a visa, and simply disappear into an immigrant community where it is easy to find work off the books for cash, and a "papers, please" mentality simply doesn't exist. The system is in desparate need of reform, and that is exactly one of the things that Ron Paul campaigned on, he understood that to eliminate illegal immigration, it needs to be made easier for anyone to come here to work and contribute to the economy, without immediately extending the benefits of citizenship. When the laws provide more incentive to break than obey them, it's no wonder that people will choose to break them.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Without the promise of free stuff, why would they come? If theyre fleeing north from South American countries, why not go and stay in Mexico?
    Illegal immigrants don't get "frees stuff" from the Federal Government (some states may offer them some benefits). They aren't eligible for any Federal aid programs like Food Stamps (SNAP), Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. Legal immigrants aren't eligible until after they are in the country for at least five years. They want jobs.

    Ironically, tightening our border led to more illegal immigrants in the country. Workers used to come, work for a few months, and go home with the money they earned to their families. As crossing became more difficult, they quit going home (as often if at all) so they could continue to work. When they missed their families, they tried to bring them up here with them.

  31. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Any of you have a front door on your house?
    Any of you try to put a fence around your 200 acre farm and expect it to keep out gophers?

    Edit: And this "door" you metaphorically speak of requires you to open it and let any asylum seeker in to be processed once he/she steps on the door mat.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Without the promise of free stuff, why would they come? If theyre fleeing north from South American countries, why not go and stay in Mexico?
    It will help but they would come for the prosperity, that's why we need border enforcement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Illegal immigrants don't get "frees stuff" from the Federal Government (some states may offer them some benefits). They aren't eligible for any Federal aid programs like Food Stamps (SNAP), Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. Legal immigrants aren't eligible until after they are in the country for at least five years. They want jobs.
    That's gabage, they lie and so do liberal government workers and the get welfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ironically, tightening our border led to more illegal immigrants in the country. Workers used to come, work for a few months, and go home with the money they earned to their families. As crossing became more difficult, they quit going home (as often if at all) so they could continue to work. When they missed their families, they tried to bring them up here with them.
    Nope, enforcement didn't change that, Reagan's amnesty did.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    For most it's not doable over any time frame, which is why they don't.

    Would you support changing the law to lift limits on the numbers of people who can immigrate here from any country so that it would be possible for them to come legally?
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    Our broken immigration system has made it all but impossible to follow the law. When faced with wait times measured in years, being tracked and spied on, and being subjected to biometrics, our laws have made it much easier to simply hop the border or overstay a visa, and simply disappear into an immigrant community where it is easy to find work off the books for cash, and a "papers, please" mentality simply doesn't exist. The system is in desparate need of reform, and that is exactly one of the things that Ron Paul campaigned on, he understood that to eliminate illegal immigration, it needs to be made easier for anyone to come here to work and contribute to the economy, without immediately extending the benefits of citizenship. When the laws provide more incentive to break than obey them, it's no wonder that people will choose to break them.



    You'd just love to import even more communists and give them citizenship so that they would vote at higher rates than they do illegally.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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