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Thread: Why Walls Won’t Secure The Border

  1. #271
    This country was founded on forced immigration, capitalism and greed

    "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." - Donald Trump June 16, 2015

    The Colonial Period

    In 1615, English courts began to send convicts to the colonies as a way of alleviating England's large criminal population. From nearly the first landing on the American shores up until 1776 and the Revolution, the British first through a black market type system, then by a government sanctioned (Transportation Act of 1718) policy systematically emptied the gaols of 50,000 felons not convicted of what we would now call “high crimes.” Petty theft, prostitution, robbery, arson, and bigamy were offenses that could land you in America the hard way. They filled boats arriving from America with tobacco (imagine the smell) with these convicts destined to serve their sentence in the plantations of Maryland and Virginia. Additionally, and not incidentally, the British also “transported” (that was the official sentence) political prisoners, POWs, and others not committing crimes. Most "historians" in their attempt to rewrite history will make the claim that political prisoners made up the majority of those sentanced to be transported but since the original British records have survived, they show that only about 1000 of them were political dissidents.

    As early as 1700, The colonies recognized this was a problem. Massachusetts made the first attempt to shut out bad immigrants. A statute had been made in order to fine shipmasters £5 for every passenger whose name, character, and circumstances they had failed to deliver in writing to the custom-house officer, who was bound to transmit that list to the town clerk. These names were those of prisoners, servants as well as of others. In 1722 this penalty was increased to £100 and other colonies soon followed. Still, this was not enough to deter them and in their attempt to refuse convict ships, Parliament passed the Transportation Act of 1718. This forced them to take the prisoners Most of these convicts landed and were settled along the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers. Although many were unskilled and thus put to work in agriculture, particularly tobacco production, others with skills were sold to tradesmen, shipbuilders, and iron manufacturers, and for other similar occupations. Convict laborers could be purchased for a lower price than indentured white or enslaved African laborers, and because they already existed outside society's rules, they could be more easily exploited. The typical sentence were between 7 and 14 years. Virginia and the colonies tried repeatedly to pass laws preventing England from sending convicts, though those laws were overturned by the Crown and the practice continued until 1776. The convicts were then shipped to Australia and the joke about Australia being founded by criminals was born.

    Indentured servants first arrived in America in the decade following the settlement of Jamestown by the Virginia Company in 1607. Indentured servants were immigrants who could not afford the costs involved in travelling to the colonies. These adult immigrants signed an indenture contract whereby they agreed to work four to seven years in exchange for passage and a freedom package or "dues" although children sometimes for much longer. Their freedom package may have included land, a year's worth of corn, arms, a cow and new clothes although many never recieved this. Most working in the colony's tobacco fields. 80% of the immigrants coming to the Chesapeake region during the 17th century were indentured servants and were the primary source of labor. While the life of an indentured servant was harsh and restrictive, it wasn't slavery. There were laws that protected some of their rights. But their life was not an easy one, and the punishments for people who wronged were harsher than those for non-servants. An indentured servant's contract could be extended as punishment for breaking any rules, such as running away, or in the case of female servants, becoming pregnant.

    The headright system was originally created in 1618 in Jamestown, Virginia. Incentives were offered to settlers to buy indentured servants and increase the labor supply of these colonies. It granted 50 acres of land to a planter for every individual that was brought to the colonies in that person's name. Plantation owners benefited greatly from the headright system and many families grew in power and wealth almost overnight. One landowner purchased 60 slervants and received 3,000 acres of land in 1638. Even if the indentured servant did not make it to Virginia alive, the sponsor still received land. It was reported that kidnappings regularly took place in order to fill the ships.

    As demands for labor grew, so did the cost of indentured servants. Many landowners also felt threatened by newly freed servants demand for land. The colonial elite realized the problems and cost of indentured servitude and turned to African slaves as a more profitable and ever-renewable source of labor and the shift from indentured servants to racial slavery had begun. In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites. However, slave laws were soon passed in Massachusetts in 1641 and Virginia in 1661 and any small freedoms that might have existed for blacks were taken away. Although indentured service of the colonial genre ceased after the American Revolution, similar kinds of contract labor were widespread in the United States during periods of labor shortage until the passage of the Contract Labor Law of 1885.

    Europeans didn’t just displace Native Americans—they enslaved them, and encouraged tribes to participate in the slave trade. In 1633 the English Puritan settlements at Plimoth and the Massachusetts Bay Colonies had begun expanding into the rich Connecticut River Valley to accommodate the steady stream of new emigrants from England. Other than the hardship of the journey and the difficulty of building homes in what the Puritans considered a wilderness, only one major obstacle threatened the security of the expanding settlements: the Pequots. In 1637 the Pequots lost a war with the English who enslaved Indians they took captive. The Pequots resisted enslavement, however, and frustrated that the Indians would "not endure the yoke," the Puritans sent many of them to Bermuda in exchange for African slaves.

    Between the years 1607 and 1775, the colonies were settled by 217,900 free immigrants, 311,600 negro slaves, 54,500 convicts and 200,200 indentured servants.


    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...Colonies*.html
    http://genealogydecoded.com/2013/07/...-bibliography/
    https://archive.org/stream/actsresol...1mass_djvu.txt
    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/...onial_Virginia
    https://clmroots.blogspot.com/2016/0...d-servant.html
    http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect...nts-in-the-us/
    http://www.umbc.edu/che/tahlessons/p...udent:RS07.pdf
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson



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  3. #272
    Premise of this thread is false. Its not just the wall but a myriad of realistic policies that will help with the flood of illegal migrants.

    What Trump did with Mexico and Guatemala on accepting more asylum in their countries and sending less migrants our way also does a lot.

    Trump also made changes to asylum rules to entering the US as well.

    The wall and other border security measures takes care of the rest (not 100% but close).

    It appears he is doing all he can, short of literally just changing the laws through congress, which is impossible at this point with Pelosi.

    Yes yes open border, I know. But like Ron Paul said, you can't have open borders AND a welfare state. Sorry.
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]



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  5. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    This country was founded on forced immigration, capitalism and greed

    "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." - Donald Trump June 16, 2015

    The Colonial Period

    In 1615, English courts began to send convicts to the colonies as a way of alleviating England's large criminal population. From nearly the first landing on the American shores up until 1776 and the Revolution, the British first through a black market type system, then by a government sanctioned (Transportation Act of 1718) policy systematically emptied the gaols of 50,000 felons not convicted of what we would now call “high crimes.” Petty theft, prostitution, robbery, arson, and bigamy were offenses that could land you in America the hard way. They filled boats arriving from America with tobacco (imagine the smell) with these convicts destined to serve their sentence in the plantations of Maryland and Virginia. Additionally, and not incidentally, the British also “transported” (that was the official sentence) political prisoners, POWs, and others not committing crimes. Most "historians" in their attempt to rewrite history will make the claim that political prisoners made up the majority of those sentanced to be transported but since the original British records have survived, they show that only about 1000 of them were political dissidents.

    As early as 1700, The colonies recognized this was a problem. Massachusetts made the first attempt to shut out bad immigrants. A statute had been made in order to fine shipmasters £5 for every passenger whose name, character, and circumstances they had failed to deliver in writing to the custom-house officer, who was bound to transmit that list to the town clerk. These names were those of prisoners, servants as well as of others. In 1722 this penalty was increased to £100 and other colonies soon followed. Still, this was not enough to deter them and in their attempt to refuse convict ships, Parliament passed the Transportation Act of 1718. This forced them to take the prisoners Most of these convicts landed and were settled along the Potomac and Rappahannock rivers. Although many were unskilled and thus put to work in agriculture, particularly tobacco production, others with skills were sold to tradesmen, shipbuilders, and iron manufacturers, and for other similar occupations. Convict laborers could be purchased for a lower price than indentured white or enslaved African laborers, and because they already existed outside society's rules, they could be more easily exploited. The typical sentence were between 7 and 14 years. Virginia and the colonies tried repeatedly to pass laws preventing England from sending convicts, though those laws were overturned by the Crown and the practice continued until 1776. The convicts were then shipped to Australia and the joke about Australia being founded by criminals was born.

    Indentured servants first arrived in America in the decade following the settlement of Jamestown by the Virginia Company in 1607. Indentured servants were immigrants who could not afford the costs involved in travelling to the colonies. These adult immigrants signed an indenture contract whereby they agreed to work four to seven years in exchange for passage and a freedom package or "dues" although children sometimes for much longer. Their freedom package may have included land, a year's worth of corn, arms, a cow and new clothes although many never recieved this. Most working in the colony's tobacco fields. 80% of the immigrants coming to the Chesapeake region during the 17th century were indentured servants and were the primary source of labor. While the life of an indentured servant was harsh and restrictive, it wasn't slavery. There were laws that protected some of their rights. But their life was not an easy one, and the punishments for people who wronged were harsher than those for non-servants. An indentured servant's contract could be extended as punishment for breaking any rules, such as running away, or in the case of female servants, becoming pregnant.

    The headright system was originally created in 1618 in Jamestown, Virginia. Incentives were offered to settlers to buy indentured servants and increase the labor supply of these colonies. It granted 50 acres of land to a planter for every individual that was brought to the colonies in that person's name. Plantation owners benefited greatly from the headright system and many families grew in power and wealth almost overnight. One landowner purchased 60 slervants and received 3,000 acres of land in 1638. Even if the indentured servant did not make it to Virginia alive, the sponsor still received land. It was reported that kidnappings regularly took place in order to fill the ships.

    As demands for labor grew, so did the cost of indentured servants. Many landowners also felt threatened by newly freed servants demand for land. The colonial elite realized the problems and cost of indentured servitude and turned to African slaves as a more profitable and ever-renewable source of labor and the shift from indentured servants to racial slavery had begun. In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites. However, slave laws were soon passed in Massachusetts in 1641 and Virginia in 1661 and any small freedoms that might have existed for blacks were taken away. Although indentured service of the colonial genre ceased after the American Revolution, similar kinds of contract labor were widespread in the United States during periods of labor shortage until the passage of the Contract Labor Law of 1885.

    Europeans didn’t just displace Native Americans—they enslaved them, and encouraged tribes to participate in the slave trade. In 1633 the English Puritan settlements at Plimoth and the Massachusetts Bay Colonies had begun expanding into the rich Connecticut River Valley to accommodate the steady stream of new emigrants from England. Other than the hardship of the journey and the difficulty of building homes in what the Puritans considered a wilderness, only one major obstacle threatened the security of the expanding settlements: the Pequots. In 1637 the Pequots lost a war with the English who enslaved Indians they took captive. The Pequots resisted enslavement, however, and frustrated that the Indians would "not endure the yoke," the Puritans sent many of them to Bermuda in exchange for African slaves.

    Between the years 1607 and 1775, the colonies were settled by 217,900 free immigrants, 311,600 negro slaves, 54,500 convicts and 200,200 indentured servants.


    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...Colonies*.html
    http://genealogydecoded.com/2013/07/...-bibliography/
    https://archive.org/stream/actsresol...1mass_djvu.txt
    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/...onial_Virginia
    https://clmroots.blogspot.com/2016/0...d-servant.html
    http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect...nts-in-the-us/
    http://www.umbc.edu/che/tahlessons/p...udent:RS07.pdf
    And your point is?

    Bad people have done bad things everywhere all through out history.

    Your anti-Americanism is showing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #274
    Title Correction;

    ''Why Open Border Globalists parading as libertarians believe there is no place
    for borders.''

    Open Border Globalists have nothing to back there claims , no NO track record exists today
    to show that Open Borders work in the 21st or even 20th century.

    Invite 20 immigrant and illegal immigrant families to live with a Globalist that thinks other
    peoples' and culture's properties belong to the world, that Americans have no right to
    preserve what made us the Greatest Nation on Earth, bar none.

  7. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And your point is?

    Bad people have done bad things everywhere all through out history.

    Your anti-Americanism is showing.
    I posted that to share some really good information about the origins of my country....lol....some might learn something new as no matter how old I get, I love to learn and gain more knowledge. It helps to become a better human being since we are ALL on one planet spinning through space. Something that doesn't seem to penetrate your small penis....I mean mind....lol
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    But like Ron Paul said, you can't have open borders AND a welfare state.
    Actually, that was Milton Friedman, not Ron Paul ... (though Ron Paul might have repeated it ...)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQzW6DNkP_8


    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law." - The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." - Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      - Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      - Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·
    MOFA (Make Orwell Fiction Again)

  9. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Actually, that was Milton Friedman, not Ron Paul ... (though Ron Paul might have repeated it ...)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQzW6DNkP_8
    I'm fairly certain that Ron did repeat it.

    Many libertarians seem to have forgotten it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Title Correction;

    ''Why Open Border Globalists parading as libertarians believe there is no place
    for borders.''

    Open Border Globalists have nothing to back there claims , no NO track record exists today
    to show that Open Borders work in the 21st or even 20th century.

    Invite 20 immigrant and illegal immigrant families to live with a Globalist that thinks other
    peoples' and culture's properties belong to the world, that Americans have no right to
    preserve what made us the Greatest Nation on Earth, bar none.
    Nope, people are still very small minded, territorial, bigoted, racist and fearful of that which they do not know. It would be wonderful if that was not how we were brought up, it is a learned process. In the meantime, I will strive to educate our young in the hopes that they will one day rise up and demand that there are no superior humans and corporations are not people. They are merely made up of people who think the world bows before them. If I were a betting man, which I am actually...lol...I would bet that it will take a major crisis such as a nuclear war or some grand natural disaster or phenomenon to take place that levels the playing field for all before that time even comes close to being a reality. The earth will simply shake us off like a bad case of fleas or we will make great pets.
    Last edited by showpan; 08-07-2019 at 07:02 PM.
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  11. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by showpan View Post
    Nope, people are still very small minded, territorial, bigoted, racist and fearful of that which they do not know. It would be wonderful if that was not how we were brought up, it is a learned process. In the meantime, I will strive to educate our young in the hopes that they will one day rise up and demand that there are no superior humans and corporations are not people. They are merely made up of people who think the world bows before them. If I were a betting man, which I am actually...lol...I would bet that it will take a major crisis such as a nuclear war or some grand natural disaster or phenomenon to take place that levels the playing field for all before that time even comes close to being a reality. Either that or we will make great pets.
    We already are.

  12. #280
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson



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  14. #281
    But like Ron Paul said, you can't have open borders AND a welfare state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm fairly certain that Ron did repeat it.

    Many libertarians seem to have forgotten it.

    So your "solution", which completely agrees with the government "solution", is to restrict more Rights, because welfare won't go away.

    What a wonderful way to double-dip!


    Click image for larger version. 

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    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  15. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So your "solution", which completely agrees with the government "solution", is to restrict more Rights, because welfare won't go away.

    What a wonderful way to double-dip!


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	iuYLJ52.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	21.4 KB 
ID:	6864
    If you are bleeding to death you may need to apply a tourniquet until the artery can be dealt with even though that is bad for your circulation.

    If you don't close your borders you will NEVER get rid of the welfare state.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If you are bleeding to death you may need to apply a tourniquet until the artery can be dealt with even though that is bad for your circulation.

    If you don't close your borders you will NEVER get rid of the welfare state.
    Yes, I have been wrong all along. I an beginning to see now.

    The Fed wants to close the border, to stop communism. Once that is done, the Fed is going to End the Welfare state. And then restore Private Property/Business Rights. And then they will decrease DHS and ICE government workers. And also stop the lobbyists who are profiting by the "crisis". Oh, and the government minimum wage, since the ones who go through the gate to get "processed" and "legalized", that will end too.

    I am beginning to understand. It is the only way the Fed can and will help us




    "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in," Clinton told an audience at a campaign stop Nov. 9, 2015. "And I do think you have to control your borders."

    Clinton voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which President George W. Bush signed after the measure cleared the Republican-held Congress. It authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico.

    The act also authorized the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles.

    Then-Sen. Clinton voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19. Notably, then-Sen. Barack Obama and New York Sen. Chuck Schumer voted for it, too.

    Originally, the act called on the Department of Homeland Security to install at least two layers of reinforced fencing along some stretches of the border.
    https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...r-wall-mexico/

    ____


    President Trump on Sunday quoted Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton supporting border security, pushing Democrats to relent in the standoff over spending on a border wall.

    The president used the quotes to hammer home his message that “walls work.”

    In a series of tweets, Mr. Trump quoted Mr. Obama in 2005 saying, “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked.”

    He quoted Mrs. Clinton in 2015 saying, “I voted, when I was a Senator, to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in.”
    https://www.wnd.com/2019/01/trump-qu...n-border-wall/
    And now we have guns to worry about since Obama couldn't succeed in that either. Todays Republicans are yesterdays Democrats. F&ck 'em all.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  17. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yes, I have been wrong all along. I an beginning to see now.

    The Fed wants to close the border, to stop communism. Once that is done, the Fed is going to End the Welfare state. And then restore Private Property/Business Rights. And then they will decrease DHS and ICE government workers. And also stop the lobbyists who are profiting by the "crisis". Oh, and the government minimum wage, since the ones who go through the gate to get "processed" and "legalized", that will end too.

    I am beginning to understand. It is the only way the Fed can and will help us





    If they wanted a wall or a secure border we would have one right now, them lying and giving lip service to a wall and secure borders proves nothing.

    You Will NEVER End the Welfare State With An Open Border, that is the whole point of the quote.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    A very good question. Most of them do learn english, or at least try to. Living in an immigrant community, I see this everywhere. Many will apologize to me for their english not being perfect (or even good), or for not knowing a particular word for what they are trying to say. As a typical example, I was once introduced by someone I know to a group of their coworkers. I greeted them all in spanish, their eyes suddenly got real wide, and one of them asked if I spoke spanish. My response was "a little, and I want to learn". The conversation immediately switched from spanish to english, with each and every one of them talking about how they are also attempting to learn to speak english as a second language. They know very well that they will get further and be more successful in our country if they can speak english. Of course, in some places, it is possible to live your entire life without knowing a word of english (I can go about my everyday life for days, without hearing a word of english spoken, where I live), and there will always be some who don't bother to make the effort, these people are a small minority.

    Our broken immigration system has made it all but impossible to follow the law. When faced with wait times measured in years, being tracked and spied on, and being subjected to biometrics, our laws have made it much easier to simply hop the border or overstay a visa, and simply disappear into an immigrant community where it is easy to find work off the books for cash, and a "papers, please" mentality simply doesn't exist. The system is in desparate need of reform, and that is exactly one of the things that Ron Paul campaigned on, he understood that to eliminate illegal immigration, it needs to be made easier for anyone to come here to work and contribute to the economy, without immediately extending the benefits of citizenship. When the laws provide more incentive to break than obey them, it's no wonder that people will choose to break them.
    I understand the system makes it difficult, but yet, many immigrants still become naturalized through the legal pathways.

  19. #286
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26
    The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
    • Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
    • Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
    • No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
    • No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
    • End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
    • Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

    Back to issues main page ›

  20. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_Liberty90 View Post
    Ron Paul's position from 2007:

    http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26
    And that's the position most of his voters believed in and supported.


    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

    No amnesty.

    End birthright citizenship

    current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

    Let's see the anarcho-Libertarians and leftarians spin those.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 08-09-2019 at 03:23 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #288
    There is a very important difference between Ron Paul and trump's immigration policies. The difference is expansion of the big government police state. Ron Paul would have implemented his policies without biometrics, spying on everyone, a "papers, please" mentality, walling us in, etc. These are the things that Ron Paul's genuine supporters oppose, whereas trump is merely using immigration policy to turn our country into east germany or north korea.
    I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)



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  23. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    There is a very important difference between Ron Paul and trump's immigration policies. The difference is expansion of the big government police state. Ron Paul would have implemented his policies without biometrics, spying on everyone, a "papers, please" mentality, walling us in, etc. These are the things that Ron Paul's genuine supporters oppose, whereas trump is merely using immigration policy to turn our country into east germany or north korea.
    Bingo!

    Beware the shills!
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  24. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    There is a very important difference between Ron Paul and trump's immigration policies. The difference is expansion of the big government police state. Ron Paul would have implemented his policies without biometrics, spying on everyone, a "papers, please" mentality, walling us in, etc. These are the things that Ron Paul's genuine supporters oppose, whereas trump is merely using immigration policy to turn our country into east germany or north korea.
    Other than flailing about and making a bunch of noise, I don't see Trump doing much of anything about the invasion.

    This isn't about Trump or what he may or may not be doing, at least not for me, because if he, or anybody else were actually serious about this, they would have sent three divisions of Army and Marines to the border already.

    This is a debate or discussion about whether or not a nation has a right and duty to protect itself from invasion.

    Some folks seem to think it does not.

  25. #291

  26. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Other than flailing about and making a bunch of noise, I don't see Trump doing much of anything about the invasion.

    This isn't about Trump or what he may or may not be doing, at least not for me, because if he, or anybody else were actually serious about this, they would have sent three divisions of Army and Marines to the border already.

    This is a debate or discussion about whether or not a nation has a right and duty to protect itself from invasion.

    Some folks seem to think it does not.
    AF, as I have alluded many times which is being completely ignored, the socialists goal is to process and document them into the system so that either they become eligible for welfare, or abide by minimum wage laws while also paying taxes to fund the FED. It is also a way for the socialists to set a strong precedent of eminent domain and away from private property rights.

    If I was a socialist who opposed Free Markets and freedom, that is exactly what I would do to get more "documented" into the system.

    It is not left versus right, it is liberty versus tyranny. And as I have also stated before - todays republicans are yesterdays democrats. The reason Obama, Hitlery and Schumer could not succeed was because Texans and business owners fought them tooth and nail.


    "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in," Clinton told an audience at a campaign stop Nov. 9, 2015. "And I do think you have to control your borders."

    Clinton voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, which President George W. Bush signed after the measure cleared the Republican-held Congress. It authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico.

    The act also authorized the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles.

    Then-Sen. Clinton voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19. (Notably, then-Sen. Barack Obama and New York Sen. Chuck Schumer voted for it, too.)

    Originally, the act called on the Department of Homeland Security to install at least two layers of reinforced fencing along some stretches of the border.
    https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...r-wall-mexico/

    ____

    President Trump on Sunday quoted Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton supporting border security, pushing Democrats to relent in the standoff over spending on a border wall.

    The president used the quotes to hammer home his message that “walls work.”

    In a series of tweets, Mr. Trump quoted Mr. Obama in 2005 saying, “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked.”

    He quoted Mrs. Clinton in 2015 saying, “I voted, when I was a Senator, to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in.”
    https://www.wnd.com/2019/01/trump-qu...n-border-wall/
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  27. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    AF, as I have alluded many times which is being completely ignored, the socialists goal is to process and document them into the system so that either they become eligible for welfare, or abide by minimum wage laws while also paying taxes to fund the FED. It is also a way for the socialists to set a strong precedent of eminent domain and away from private property rights.

    If I was a socialist who opposed Free Markets and freedom, that is exactly what I would do to get more "documented" into the system.

    It is not left versus right, it is liberty versus tyranny. And as I have also stated before - todays republicans are yesterdays democrats. The reason Obama, Hitlery and Schumer could not succeed was because Texans and business owners fought them tooth and nail.
    And to get them voting, as they, invaders, vote overwhelmingly for more government.

    I do not disagree.

  28. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by invisible View Post
    There is a very important difference between Ron Paul and trump's immigration policies. The difference is expansion of the big government police state. Ron Paul would have implemented his policies without biometrics, spying on everyone, a "papers, please" mentality, walling us in, etc. These are the things that Ron Paul's genuine supporters oppose, whereas trump is merely using immigration policy to turn our country into east germany or north korea.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Bingo!

    Beware the shills!
    Then he must believe we could do the following without those:

    We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

    Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Other than flailing about and making a bunch of noise, I don't see Trump doing much of anything about the invasion.
    He needs to do more yet but he has been doing a lot more than any President since Ike:

    POTUS to pursue an aggressive executive crackdown on immigration

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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