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Thread: Why Walls Won’t Secure The Border

  1. #1

    Why Walls Won’t Secure The Border

    But it does increase the cost and size of government.




    https://youtu.be/Yh3fez9CyXg
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)



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  3. #2
    Why doesnt she talk to the US government facilitating mass firearm sales and drug smuggling?

    If she's concerned about gun smuggling, Eric Holder beats all private gun sellers - she did not even mention fast and furious or any of the other gun walker "debacles". I personally dont thing they were programs gone bad - repeat mistakes of that magnitude are not mistakes.

    She also spends no time speaking to how to address the immigration issue without the border wall. Then again, that's probably not the objective of this video. Why does that woman hate Mexico? What does the US have that Mexico does not - compelling her to claim that those people want a "better life". Free stuff = better life?

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  4. #3
    She should study how fences work. Like Hungry, Israel or the old East Germany, etc.
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    She should study how fences work. Like Hungry, Israel or the old East Germany, etc.
    You should study how globalist/corporatist/lobbyists, our government, will use any tactic necessary to grow the Fed, the MIC, while putting the Tax Payer on the hook financially (we are broke), while losing freedom.

    Emulating other countries is the sure-fire fastest way to abandon any sense of what is left of our liberty and freedom.
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

    Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3)

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You should study how globalist/corporatist/lobbyists, our government, will use any tactic necessary to grow the Fed, the MIC, while putting the Tax Payer on the hook financially (we are broke), while losing freedom.

    Emulating other countries is the sure-fire fastest way to abandon any sense of what is left of our liberty and freedom.
    That would mean having to deal with his cognitive dissonance.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You should study how globalist/corporatist/lobbyists, our government, will use any tactic necessary to grow the Fed, the MIC, while putting the Tax Payer on the hook financially (we are broke), while losing freedom.

    Emulating other countries is the sure-fire fastest way to abandon any sense of what is left of our liberty and freedom.
    The other difference is that, at least with Israel, they have a fence where if you cross anyway, you'll be shot.

    In the US, its just a token measure. On the other side of the fence are sanctuary cities, free education and healthcare, welfare, streets paved with gold, whathave you.

    What else would constitute "Better life" and overcome the drawbacks of rape, 20% mortality rate, etc?

    The wall is bullsh!t, and would do nothing to solve the illegal immigration issue. Besides, when one looks at the impact of illegal immigration its often tied to drawing from the welfare state without putting in. Couple that with the US and local governments being complicit in the shelter/welfare of these illegals, and you get to the real root of the problem.

    So if you like smoke and mirrors, perhaps the occasional political reach around, go and pursue the wall. ...And when the world looks at you like a giant tit for the sucking, dont start complaining about chaffed nipples and dry ducts. 'Cause this wall is nothing but a giant nursing bra.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    She should study how fences work. Like Hungry [sic], Israel or the old East Germany, etc.
    All of those examples had to combine a police state with their walls. The walls alone would have been utterly ineffective.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    All of those examples had to combine a police state with their walls. The walls alone would have been utterly ineffective.
    bears repeating.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.



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  11. #9
    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    She should study how fences work. Like Hungry, Israel or the old East Germany, etc.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Danke again.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    Francesca Fiorentini works for the young turks!
    I cannot believe you promote a rabid Communist!

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    But it does increase the cost and size of government.




    https://youtu.be/Yh3fez9CyXg
    I don't think the video answered the question in the title. Again, will a wall stop all illegal crossing? no. But a wall would stop a lot of the people crossing the border. Its like an umbrella, you don't toss it out because it gets your legs wet when using it. I think the problem the wall is supposed to solved can be solved with better less expensive, police state ways.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  16. #14

  17. #15

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Why not ask these guys how unguarded territorial borders and unbridled immigration of a hostile culture worked out for them?

    So you are really saying that America's problems are the white man's fault.
    There is no spoon.

  21. #18
    Walls won't secure the border.

    But land-mines and MQ-1 drones will.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    So you are really saying that America's problems are the white man's fault.
    I thought he was saying, "We got where we are by violating nonwhite people's rights. At this point, we have no choice but to keep doing that forever or else it's all going to come crashing down on us."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I thought he was saying, "We got where we are by violating nonwhite people's rights. At this point, we have no choice but to keep doing that forever or else it's all going to come crashing down on us."
    KARMA.
    There is no spoon.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Any of you have a front door on your house?
    But someone can break through one of your windows. Checkmate!
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    So you are really saying that America's problems are the white man's fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I thought he was saying, "We got where we are by violating nonwhite people's rights. At this point, we have no choice but to keep doing that forever or else it's all going to come crashing down on us."
    I'm saying that the native Indian population, because they could not, would not organize to defend their territory, defend their culture, defend their family and defend their lives, were supplanted and displaced by a culture and people hostile to them, and because of that they became second class citizens, wards of the state and little more than prisoners on the lands they once called their own.

    Happens all the time in human history.

    I'm hoping that we could find the courage to defend ourselves against invasion.

    But I'm pretty convinced it's a lost cause...the people that should be rising up to defend themselves are too stupid, too poisoned by self loathing propaganda, too soft, too corrupt, too cosmopolitan and too world weary to do so.

    And that's why the invaders will win.

    And why, for all it's warts, one of the last bastions of limited government, property rights, Western enlightenment philosophy and individual liberty, will die.

  26. #23
    I took the bait and watched the video, but she literally does not mention why walls don't work. It's one thing to debate the merits of The Wall from a liberty perspective, cost perspective, etc., but stating that walls don't work* is ridiculous. The technology is simple, but it is no less effective for that; hence, walls have been used for thousands of years.

    *Yes, any wall can be overcome through ingenuity, but walls serve to deter, delay, and in some cases prevent intrusion by all but the most determined.

    Regardless, this wasn't the video to provoke thought on the issue.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm View Post
    I took the bait and watched the video, but she literally does not mention why walls don't work. It's one thing to debate the merits of The Wall from a liberty perspective, cost perspective, etc., but stating that walls don't work* is ridiculous. The technology is simple, but it is no less effective for that; hence, walls have been used for thousands of years.

    *Yes, any wall can be overcome through ingenuity, but walls serve to deter, delay, and in some cases prevent intrusion by all but the most determined.

    Regardless, this wasn't the video to provoke thought on the issue.
    "Why do you bother to lock anything, a bolt cutter will get right past it."



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  29. #25
    I wrote this piece February 27, 2017


    Walls are not built to keep people out, they are built to keep people in such as prison walls. While the great wall of China may have temporarily deterred only the feeble minded robbers and raiders, it failed miserably as a defensive fortification. The builders of what is left of the Ming Dynasty wall were wiped out as the Manchu marched straight through.
    If there is a will, there is a way.
    President Trump wants to build a wall along the Mexican border. The total length of the continental border is 1,989 miles Land along the border cuts through cities, including San Ysidro, California, and El Paso, Texas, as well as rural farmland, desert, arroyos, steep mountains and wildlife reserves. Rural farmlands rely on the rivers for water. Environmental impacts on those private lands would be tremendous as the wall would have to be built on our side blocking off the flow of water while giving up half the river since the border runs right down the middle in many areas.

    Two-thirds of the land along the border is private or state-owned. Most of that land is in Texas, where much of the border does not already have fencing. The Trump administration would need to use eminent domain to acquire the remaining land needed. Attempts to acquire land would certainly face challenges in court. Historically, wall-related land cases have taken years to resolve, with costly settlements often resulting. Hundreds of property owners were sued just to build the existing chunks of wall. Some 400 relinquished properties ranging in size from a driveway to commercial lots and farms, costing the government at least $15 million in 2012. Some property owners, whose land would be caught between the wall and the Mexico border, are likely to file claims of lost property value, which could slow down any construction on a wall greatly impacting the final cost.

    Building the wall would be a tremendous feat whose budget would soon soar astronomically. Even with the repeal of the Davis Bacon Act that would enable the government to hire cheap Mexican labor (ironic to say the least), The costs would rapidly multiply quickly. In the remote parts of the dessert, you would have to provide shelter, food and water for the laborers and craftsman since making a daily trip to these remote places would not be feasible. There are no hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc in much of the region.. Roads would have to be built in order to move the enormous amounts of materials, equipment and manpower needed. Portable power would have to be provided. Then, once you get through the vast dessert and reach the rugged mountainous regions, work would come to a screeching crawl. Steep cliffs, jagged terrain, deep washes, loose broken ground would have to be transformed into some kind of footing for such a wall. Even if you switched to fencing, it would still require much excavation for a secure structure. The roads needed to reach these remote places alone would cost as much as a wall or fence if not more since they would have to remain in order to maintain it. You aren't going to drive concrete trucks through the mountains along donkey paths.Once you have traversed the mountains, there are still the rivers to contend with. Any kind of wall would need a solid footing much like building a bridge. The logistics for this would be monumental just as it were for the Chinese in the 7th century.

    Trump has claimed that Mexico will be paying for the wall. That is a lie. He would start the wall using our tax dollars and then impose an import tax (tariff) on goods coming in. An import tax may be paid initially by Mexican companies but in reality, they would not pay anything as this cost would be directly added to the price of their goods. That means WE would still be paying for it as the cost of everything we import would increase by the 20% Trump would tax them. In turn, Mexico would place an import tax on our exports creating a trade war that will ultimately cost each and every one of us in jobs and increased costs of the many goods we buy and sell with our neighbor.

    Walls will not keep them out as many of the immigrants that have come into this country did so legally through border check points or have flown into our airports.Once here, they simply did not return. Smugglers have dug many tunnels, most of which are still yet to be found while others will never be found. Ladders were designed to traverse walls. Sledge hammers and battery operated chipping hammers will ensure that the wall is merely a colossal monument built to satisfy small minded individuals with super enlarged egos.

    Trump has targeted the wrong people. it's our own fault that bad people want to come into this country. The poor Mexican worker comes here to survive and feed off a system that was designed to enable them. When H.W. Bush wrote NAFTA, it was enacted not only to open the borders for companies to move freely to exploit cheap labor and resources, it paved the way for a mass influx of desperate workers to artificially manipulate the wages for Americans. It wasn't about helping the people of a poor nation, it was all about breaking the backs of unions so companies could make triple profits more than what they were already making. Unfortunately, it didn't work as well as they planned since most of the companies that stayed were union. It was mostly non union companies that moved. Then G.W. Bush promised them amnesty and millions came flooding in.

    For all intense purposes, people love to be fed what they want to hear. They are nothing more than brainwashed sheep. If anyone had any real intentions of stopping the millions of illegal workers from taking our jobs, they would go after the employer and enforce our existing laws. If they can't find work, they wouldn't stay. This country hands out work visas like it's candy. Why, because the very same billionaires who tell you that illegals are stealing our jobs are the same ones who hire foreigners to replace Americans who refuse to work for 3rd world wages, long hours and no benefits. The illegals are NOT taking our jobs that Americans refuse to do. That is a blatant lie. They are doing ANY and every job they can get hired for.

    The wall is a gimmick. It's a tool to get people to believe that they are doing something about this grave problem when in reality, they aren't doing anything at all to prevent companies from hiring them. I haven't heard one mention of eliminating the work Visa program either. It's a charade and nothing more. You can't cure the disease by treating the symptom.

    Then there is the refugee problem we face. Our government has disrupted the middle east and other places. It has turned it into a vast killing zone. We bomb them daily killing untold scores of woman and children targeting hospitals, schools and residential neighborhoods. We have created terrorists not just by our illegal interventionist ways, but by directly funding, arming and training groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda to serve our corporations in their never ending thirst for cheaper natural resources and regime change to transform other governments into corporate friendly interests.

    911 did not happen as a result of us having too much freedoms...it was the direct result. It was blowback from our foreign policy created by a group of people who's sole desire is to control us along with the worlds currency and resources.

    Until we as Americans come to understand the reality of just what is really happening, this country will remain divided and conquered. Trump claims that we will win. That we will win so much that we will be begging to stop winning. If winning means that we continue to blame the wrong people for what has truly happened to this country as we enter into another cold war, building fake walls to satisfy fake conservatives, then winning means that we have already lost.
    Last edited by showpan; 07-31-2019 at 12:49 PM. Reason: more info
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    All of those examples had to combine a police state with their walls. The walls alone would have been utterly ineffective.
    They know that. That's the intent.
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  31. #27
    All of those examples had to combine a police state WITHIN their walls. The walls alone would have been utterly ineffective.

    Modern walls are meant for us, not them...lol
    Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
    Thomas Jefferson

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    They know that. That's the intent.
    A wall does not require a police state.

    Multiple ethnic and religious groups thrown together for "diversity" does.

    Exhibit A: Look out your window. No wall to speak of here, but we sure as hell got diversity and a heavy handed police state.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    All of those examples had to combine a police state with their walls. The walls alone would have been utterly ineffective.
    I think people are more afraid of illegal immigrants than they are of the police state. Also we already have a police state(not the extent they have in Israel, East Germany or China), so why not take advantage of it by adding the wall to the system?
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    But it does increase the cost and size of government.




    https://youtu.be/Yh3fez9CyXg
    walls dont work, and we dont need walls if democrats would stop the coup they fund
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

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